Wolverine in Cap #363

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Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by JephYork »

Right now, we have Wolverine appearing in Cap #363 (a quick walk-through in the background on Madripoor) placed right after W2 #23.

However, W2 #19-20 are part of Acts of Vengeance, and the MCP has the Red Skull (rightly) appearing in those issues after he joins Loki's cabal in Cap #366.

Cap #366 -> W #19-23 -> Cap #363. That can't be right. We need to move that Cap appearance back.

Where's a good spot? Wolvie's on Madripoor until W2 #16, then goes back to the X-Men and appears in UX #245, Punisher #18, X@ #13 and M/SH3 #6-8. I don't recall the details of his subsequent adventures with Havok in MCP #29-31 and the Meltdown mini. Then he appears in M/CP #38-47 & 51-53 -- any Madripoor there? Finally, he appears in Wolverine: the Jungle Adventure and briefly visits the X-Men but goes back to Madripoor in W2 #17.

Any ideas where would work best for this Cap issue?

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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by michel »

JephYork wrote:Right now, we have Wolverine appearing in Cap #363 (a quick walk-through in the background on Madripoor) placed right after W2 #23.
Right now, in the MCP's Wolverine listing, CA 363 is placed between UX 246 and W2 19. Do you work from an edited version ?
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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by JephYork »

I'm working from the X-Men Index TPB. Looks like this problem was noticed during production of the Cap Index and changed on the MCP, and I didn't even notice. Good eye!

However, placement between those two issues doesn't work either. Wolvie doesn't return to Madripoor between them. In UX #246, he's in the Outback, telling Storm he's taking time off -- and in W2 #19, Gateway teleports him directly to Tierra Verde.

If we want to keep placement in this general area, the Cap issue should probably be between W2 #17-FB and W2 #17. In the FB, Wolverine gets teleported to Madripoor. The issue's main story opens in the middle of a Madripoor bar brawl with Roughouse. The Cap scene works best between those two, I think.

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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by michel »

ASPOT 26, the Prologue of Acts of Vengeance, is placed between pages 5 and 6 of CA 363. W2 19 is part of the event, having CA 363 just before W2 19 is consistent with that. Putting CA 363 before W2 17 is possible, but that means W2 17-18 and UX 246, for Wolverine, must happen shortly before AoV. Maybe Paul could check that in his calendar ?
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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

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Not a lot of time elapses between W2 #17-18 (one night and day) and #19. If Cap #363 occurs just after AoV's prologue, and Cap #366 has to go before W2 #19 -- well, that's just MORE evidence to me to move Cap #363 back before W2 #17.

At this point, UXM is *way* out of sync with the rest of the Marvel Universe. (Or, rather, it's way out of sync with Wolverine, and Wolverine's AoV tie-in suggests that it's in-sync with the wider MU.) Basically, W #17-23 and UXM #252-260 were published at the same time (and both have AoV crossovers). But W2 #17 features Storm, "dead" since UXM #248 -- W2 #21 has a scene set before UXM #249 -- and W2 #23 leads into UXM #251.

So the books interweave like this:

UXM #245 - W2 #17-18 - UXM #246-247 - W2 #19-20 (AoV!) - W2 #21-23 - UXM #248-255 - UXM #256-258 (AoV!)

Ugh, huh?

So the Wolvie AoV crossovers need to be placed as close as possible to the start of the crossover ... and the UXM crossovers need to be placed as close as possible to the end. (In fact, the X-Men Index TPB placed #258 *after it ends*.) Sadly, the Wolvie crossovers also have to go *after* the Red Skull joins the cabal -- so they can't go *right* at the start, either. It's a bit awkward.

I think this works:

W2 #17 fb - Cap #363 (pp.1-5) - AoV prologue - Cap #363 (pp.6-22) - W #17-18 - Cap #364-366 - UXM #246-247 - W2 #19-20 (AoV!)

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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by Michael »

This was previously discussed in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4433
The problem with moving CA 363-364 before W2 17 is that CA 363 takes place after the Atlantis Attacks annuals and that raises the question of when Beast and Jean Grey find time to appear in the Atlantis Attacks Annuals:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4435
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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by JephYork »

I don't understand. What does Wolverine #17-18 have to do with Beast and Jean Grey?

EDIT: to clarify, I'm not talking about moving Cap #363-364. I'm talking about moving W2 #17-18.

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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by Michael »

Be patient with me- I'm trying to work this out in my head too. Let's assume thatW2 17 takes place after the Atlantis Attacks Annuals. When would Jean and Beast have appeared in the Atlantis Attacks Annuals? After XF 51. So we would have to assume that XF 51 takes place before W2 17, and therefore before UX 246. Is that possible? Keep in mind that NM 88 is where Mystique first learns that X-Factor is back from space, and that issue takes place after Destiny's death in UX 255.
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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by JephYork »

UXM #246 *already* occurs after XFac #51. UX Annual #13 is part of Atlantis Attacks as well, and UX #246 occurs after it.

X-Factor #51 -> Atlantis Attacks (inc UX@ #13) -> Cap #363-366 -> UX #246-248 -> W2 #19-23 -> UX #249-255 -> NM #88.

It doesn't seem to really matter where we place W2 #17-18 in there.

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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by JephYork »

This thread was getting derailed with X-Factor/Atlantis Attacks talk, so I split it off into its own thread.

Any more thoughts about whether moving Wolvie #17-18 slightly will affect anything materially significant?

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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by Col_Fury »

WOLVERINE
...
W:JA
W2 17
W2 18
UX 246
CA 363
W2 19
...

How long does it take W2 17-18 & UX 246 to occur? Because this...

CAPTAIN AMERICA
...
CA 363 (1 - 5)
ASPOT 26-BTS [AoV prologue]
DAMCON2 1
CA 363 (6 - 17) [Wolverine appears]
CA 364
CA 365 (1 - 9) [maybe 36 hours later]
...

MAGNETO
...
CA 365-OP [maybe 36 hours after CA 363]
A@ 19/3 (5:1)-FB
CA 366 [same villains meeting as CA 365]
W2 19 [oops! We're already at W2 19]
UX 253
...

That looks pretty tight, but here's two more for comparison:

DR. DOOM
...
CA 366
PUN2 28 (1 - 4)
DD 275
W2 19
...

KINGPIN
...
CA 366
PUN2 28 (1 - 4)
W2 19
...

So at least the first 4 pages of PUN2 28 and DD 275 take place after CA 366 and before W2 19. Is that enough time for W2 17-18 & UX 246 to occur?
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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by JephYork »

W2 #17 takes place on one night and the next morning. W2 #18 takes place in the space of an hour, directly after #17.

Wolverine claims that he spent some time healing between W2 #18-19, but we don't see how long.

In UXM #246, he appears in one scene where he basically tells Storm he's going on sabbatical. Then presumably Gateway sends him on his way before the rest of UXM #246 occur.

Frankly, I'm starting to look at that scene in #246 and wonder if IT occurs before W #17.

In W2 #17-PFB, Wolvie is in the Outback, going feral and feeling itchy. Storm tells him that he shouldn't be ashamed of his feral nature, but he says he doesn't want to show it to the X-Men and that he needs some time off. After a brief time-cut, he says goodbye to Storm and Gateway teleports him away.

I'm wondering if UXM #246, where Wolverine tells Storm that he's taking a sabbatical, should go in that brief time cut?

Right now, things are ordered so that, after telling Storm that he's taking a sabbatical, he goes to Madripoor, gets beat up, comes home, tells Storm he's taking a sabbatical again, and heads off to Tierra Verde.

Possible. But he could also just tell her ONE TIME (combining both scenes), then go to Madripoor, get beat up, heal up *in Madripoor* (possibly appearing in Cap #363 while/after healing) -- then have Gateway teleport him directly from Madripoor to Tierra Verde.

If we put Cap #363 during his healing phase, that would fix the problem of having him appear in Madripoor between an Australia scene and a Tierra Verde scene -- and it would keep UXM #246 before the currently-understood start of Acts of Vengeance, which wouldn't increase the congestion of having UXM #248-257 all take place in the AoV timeframe.

W2 #17-fb - Wolvie feels feral, talks to Storm about leaving
UXM #246 - Wolvie talks to Storm about leaving
W2 #17-rest of fb - Wolvie teleports to Madripoor
W2 #17-18 - in Madripoor
Cap #363 - in Madripoor, pre-AoV crossovers
W2 #19-23 - teleported to Tierra Verde, AoV crossover

Thoughts?

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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by Col_Fury »

I like the idea of merging the two "I'm taking a break" scenes. A lot.
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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by JephYork »

Rats. I checked UXM #246, and it just doesn't work. In that issue, he's requesting a leave of absence because he has a job to do, an obligation to fulfill. He reminds Storm that he may be an animal, but he's foremost a man, who stands by his word.

In W2 #17, he's taking a break because he feels really animalistic and wants to go punch things in Madripoor. That's kind of the *opposite* reason as in UXM #246.

Looks like #246 works best where it is, placed right before W2 #19, where Wolvie invades Tierra Verde to save Roughouse. ("Saving an enemy" falls under the kind of grim manly obligation Wolvie's talking about in #246.)

Which brings us back to the question in my opening post -- can we move Cap #363 back to just before W2 #17, so we can place Wolvie in Madripoor at a time when he was actually in Madripoor?

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Re: Wolverine in Cap #363

Post by JephYork »

Hmm. Another option might be to put Cap #363 right after W2 #18. When #18 ends, Wolvie's badly beaten but still in Madripoor. He could appear briefly in Cap right after that (he's just standing around, after all, so he doesn't need to be in tip-top shape), then go back to the X-Men in UXM #246, then to Tierra Verde in W2 #19.

That's a smaller shift than moving Cap #363 before W2 #17-18 *and* UXM #246. Now we're just moving Cap #363 before UXM #246.

Unless anyone has any objections, I think this is the solution I'll go with. It's least intrusive.

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