JephYork wrote:
Right now I'm wrestling with the roadblock that (IIRC) Namor is presumed dead for most of Atlantis Attacks, and there he is swimming around in Cap #366. So my idea might die stillborn. But I'm not sure why I'm getting so much resistance to even *considering the idea*. Like I said, none of this is relevant to my Index work, so it's not like it's going to be printed and "ratified" unless you fight me tooth and nail. It's just an intellectual exercise at this point. What would happen if we tried thinking about it *this* way...?
-Jeph!
Atlantis Attacks has to end before A 311- the Avengers meet in Hydrobase in Avengers West Coast Annual 4, and it's definitely not on the bottom of the ocean in that Annual. The question is- could the ending of Atlantis Attacks be squeezed in *very shortly* before A 311, after Avengers Spotlight 26?
ETA: The main complicating factor is that Storm is clearly an adult in the Atlantis Attacks Annuals, which means that the Atlantis Attacks Annuals take place before UX 248. Destiny's death in UX 255 is referenced in NM 86, and in NM 88, Mystique tells the rest of Freedom Force that X-Factor has *just* returned from space.
One of the contradictions to your idea for X-Factor & The New Mutants (and Wolverine?) is Uncanny X-Men. If you look at the X-Men, the last possible place where all of the X-Men as that line-up can appear in UX@ 13 (Atlantis Attacks chapter 3) is before UX 246 because during UX 246-247, they fight Master Mold and Rogue gets sucked into the Siege Perilous. Then, the very last point Storm can appear in Atlantis Attacks chapters 12-14 is before UX 248 where she is turned into a kid by Nanny.
The New Mutants in Asgard storyline goes from NM 78-87. (Rusty & Skids stuck on Earth, the rest of the team stuck in Asgard. No crossover between the 2 stories.) The X-Factor in space "Judgment War" storyline goes from XF 43-51 (continuous story, no chance for them to return to Earth). NM 78 & XF 43 show the same events (Ship launching into space). NM 87/XF 51/NM 88 show the same events (Ship returning from space, X-Factor & New Mutants reunited). Atlantis Attacks chapter 9 (NM@ 5) takes place during the last few pages of NM 87 (dialogue, art & team members involved place it there). That means the earliest spot for Atlantis Attacks chapters 10-14 can take place for Beast, Jean (and Storm) is during NM 88.
NM 84 takes place after the Vault breakout in Avengers Spotlight 26 which begins the Acts of Vengeance crossover. A footnote and a newspaper article Vulture reads and talks about places it there.
UX 255 is the issue Destiny & Stonewall die. Most of the X-Men team last seen in UX 247 has gone through the Siege Perilous before this.
NM 86 takes place after UX 255 because Freedom Force appear & announce to the media that their teammates have just died. This is the conclusion of the Rusty & Skids vs Vulture, Tinker & Nitro Acts of Vengeance storyline where they're all arrested by Freedom Force.
UX 256-258 are the Acts of Vengeance issues with the Mandarin, Psylocke & Wolverine. This around the same time as A 312 where Freedom Force fights the Avengers because they're grieving for their murdered teammates.
So you see, even just sticking with the X-books (let alone the rest of the Marvel Universe titles) there is a contradiction. If you check the rest of the Marvel Universe, most people appear in Atlantis Attacks before Acts of Vengeance.
It would be nice if there were a permanent section here for footnotes & dialogue chronological placements. Something like:
NM 84- Footnote & dialogue reference Avengers Spotlight 26 Vault breakout. Vulture reads newspaper article on Vault breakout.
NM 86- dialogue reference to UX 255 Destiny & Stonewall's deaths just occurred. Official media statement by members of Freedom Force.
etc.
This way, anyone can search for references as to WHY something takes place before or after something else.
Last edited by metaldragon on Wed May 25, 2011 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I agree that UXM has events in this order: Atlantis Attacks chapter 3 -> UXM #246-255 -> Acts of Vengeance crossover.
But I don't see where you get the idea that "UX 256-258 [are] ... around the same time as A 312 where Freedom Force fights the Avengers because they're grieving for their murdered teammates." Are you basing this on the Mandarin's chronology here, or some in-book references?
In any case, I still don't see an outright *contradiction* there. I'm already under the impression that UXM #256-258 take place at the very tail end of Acts of Vengeance. Atlantis Attacks chapters 9-14 could still *potentially* fit between UXM #255-256, as far as I know.
I'd really like to put this discussion aside for now. Like I said before, it's just an intellectual exercise based on an offhand observation, and it's not going to affect my Index work, for which I'm on deadline. Can we come back to this later, when I actually have time to read all the relevant books?
JephYork wrote:I agree that UXM has events in this order: Atlantis Attacks chapter 3 -> UXM #246-255 -> Acts of Vengeance crossover.
But I don't see where you get the idea that "UX 256-258 [are] ... around the same time as A 312 where Freedom Force fights the Avengers because they're grieving for their murdered teammates." Are you basing this on the Mandarin's chronology here, or some in-book references?
In any case, I still don't see an outright *contradiction* there. I'm already under the impression that UXM #256-258 take place at the very tail end of Acts of Vengeance. Atlantis Attacks chapters 9-14 could still *potentially* fit between UXM #255-256, as far as I know.
I'd really like to put this discussion aside for now. Like I said before, it's just an intellectual exercise based on an offhand observation, and it's not going to affect my Index work, for which I'm on deadline. Can we come back to this later, when I actually have time to read all the relevant books?
-Jeph!
A 312 is an Acts of Vengeance issue where Freedom Force fights Captain America & a few other Avengers. Other heroes appear during this issue referencing other Acts of Vengeance battles. Freedom Force mention they are mourning for Destiny & Stonewall who were killed in UX 255. Since UX 256-258 take place after UX 255 (Destiny & Stonewall's deaths), and A 312 takes place after UX 255, that means A 312 takes place roughly (give or take a bit, but not much) around the time of UX 256-258.
And no, Atlantis Attacks chapters 9-14 cannot take place between UX 255-256 because Storm appears in chapters 12-14 (as a Bride of Set alongside Marvel Girl and 5 other women heroes) as an adult. She was turned into a child by Nanny in UX 248 and is stuck in that form throughout UX 255-256 (until the X-termination Agenda crossover much later). That means the Atlantis Attacks concluding chapters must take place before UX 248.
OK, no worries, we can come back to this later. Just thought I'd answer your last question.
Since UX 256-258 take place after UX 255 (Destiny & Stonewall's deaths), and A 312 takes place after UX 255, that means A 312 takes place roughly (give or take a bit, but not much) around the time of UX 256-258.
Not necessarily true at all. Just because two things occur sometime after the same starting point, doesn't mean they have to take place at, or even anywhere near, each other.
Storm appears in chapters 12-14 (as a Bride of Set alongside Marvel Girl and 5 other women heroes) as an adult.
