Spider-Man in FF 372-378

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by Michael » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:19 am

It depends- is Strange's being depowered mentioned in the story?
In H2 399, Strange is unable to resurrect Marlo unless she was killed by something supernatural. This could either take place before or after Strange was depowered- it could be a consequence of his being depowered or a rule that existed before his being depowered?
I don't have MTW 1-4- is Strange's being depowered mentioned in those issues?

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by Somebody » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:33 am

michel wrote:Roughly, for Dr. Strange the MCP has :

IW - Return of the Defenders - T 456 - NW arc - DRSTR3 48-50 - H2 399 - MTW 1-4 - SECDEF 1-5 ~ DRSTR3 51-53 - Q 50 - SECDEF 6-9 - IC

This will be hard to change because in DRSTR3 48-50 Strange is largely depowered, and his chronology must respect that.
[...]
To summarize, a lot of characters have the NW arc closer to the beginning of IC than to the end of IW, after MTW 1-4 or H2 403-404. It's the opposite for Dr. Strange, but he's depowered in DRSTR3 48-50, so his chronology would be hard to change. What do you think ?
Well, in both Inc. Hulk #399 and Quasar #50, Strange is wearing his normal costume and floating around as ever. Aren't points those inconsistent with placement after he's depowered?

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by michel » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:06 pm

I'll check every Dr. Strange appearance this week-end (except for the Marvel UK issues). Until then, I'll search for other potential inconsistencies.

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by michel » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:46 pm

Michael wrote:In Q 44, Quagmire is abducted by Darkling. In NW 33-34, Darkling uses a mind-controlled Quagmire against the heroes.
That means the NW arc has to be after Q 44. But I see that SLEEPHS happens in between pages of Q 42 AND in between pages of DRSTR3 49. If Q 42 and DRSTR3 49 happen at the same time, then the NW arc, which is after Q 44, is also after Q 42, so after DRSTR3 49, so when Strange is depowered : not good. Can someone check in SLEEPHS if Quasar appears before Strange, and if a gap can be put between their appearances ?

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by Michael » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:44 pm

Somebody wrote:Well, in both Inc. Hulk #399 and Quasar #50, Strange is wearing his normal costume and floating around as ever. Aren't points those inconsistent with placement after he's depowered?
But in Quasar 47-48, Eric Masterson appears and he's already Thunderstrike. That means that Q 47-48 takes place after TS 1. I'm not sure that it's possible to move TS 1 back before DRSTR3 49.
Incidentally, we have MTW 1-3 placed after DRSTR3 49 and before TS 1. Could someone check those issues and see if Thunderstrike is wearing his "Thor" costume?

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by Somebody » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:22 pm

michel wrote:
Michael wrote:In Q 44, Quagmire is abducted by Darkling. In NW 33-34, Darkling uses a mind-controlled Quagmire against the heroes.
That means the NW arc has to be after Q 44. But I see that SLEEPHS happens in between pages of Q 42 AND in between pages of DRSTR3 49. If Q 42 and DRSTR3 49 happen at the same time, then the NW arc, which is after Q 44, is also after Q 42, so after DRSTR3 49, so when Strange is depowered : not good. Can someone check in SLEEPHS if Quasar appears before Strange, and if a gap can be put between their appearances ?
Unfortunately not - they're cameos on the same page. [Strange appears with his standard costume, and is explicitly identified as Sorcerer Supreme before being dismissed as "occupied" - the whole basis for the cameos is that the bad guy's looking for potential threats to him, and checks on the Sorcerer Supreme, Spirit of Vengeance and Protector of the Universe as part of that.]

Ultimately, exactly *how* depowered was Strange?

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by Michael » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:14 pm

Somebody wrote:Unfortunately not - they're cameos on the same page. [Strange appears with his standard costume, and is explicitly identified as Sorcerer Supreme before being dismissed as "occupied" - the whole basis for the cameos is that the bad guy's looking for potential threats to him, and checks on the Sorcerer Supreme, Spirit of Vengeance and Protector of the Universe as part of that.]
Are we SURE that the stories referenced in those cameos are DRSTR3 49, Q 42 and GR3 33? Could they possibly be some other story?
And if we are sure, then DRSTR3 50 being placed BEFORE GR3 33 in Noble Kale's chronology is an error.
If the synchronism is solid, then (a) we know that Q 50 takes place after Strange was depowered and (b) we know that the footnote in NW 34 and the dialogue referencing the Seraphim were incorrect, and the New Warriors arc takes place after Strange was depowered.

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by Peter Fabricius » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:42 pm

Michael wrote:Incidentally, we have MTW 1-3 placed after DRSTR3 49 and before TS 1. Could someone check those issues and see if Thunderstrike is wearing his "Thor" costume?
Thor costume.
Anything else? :D
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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by Somebody » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:45 pm

Michael wrote:Are we SURE that the stories referenced in those cameos are DRSTR3 49, Q 42 and GR3 33? Could they possibly be some other story?
Easily - it's head/shoulders shots of Strange & Ghost Rider, and a full-body shot of Quasar floating in space. In fact... Quasar has his quantum bands. So this should be before his Ultimate Nullification in Q 40 - i.e., it *can't* be during Q 42 (when Quasar's Nullified, dead, colourless, bandless and stuck in a chair).

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by michel » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:01 am

Somebody wrote:In fact... Quasar has his quantum bands. So this should be before his Ultimate Nullification in Q 40 - i.e., it *can't* be during Q 42 (when Quasar's Nullified, dead, colourless, bandless and stuck in a chair).
Currently, SLEEPHS is placed in between IW and IC for Sleepwalker. Moving it backward before Q 40 would place it either during IW (so near SLEEP 18, Q 37-40 and DRSTR3 42-47, and Sleepwalker appears in DRSTR3 46), either before IW and SLEEP 18. Does the book give any clue of placement ?

If we move it forward, how many issues of Q does Quasar stay nullified ?

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by michel » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:59 pm

sigh... I tried to look at the SECDEF appearances.

For Wolverine, the MCP has :

X-Cutioner's Song - SECDEF 1-3 - BT 1-4 - W2 66-68 - X 17-19

Cyclops is in X 19, then in NW 31. Cannonball is in NW 31, then XFOR 19. So SECDEF 1-3 is before XFOR 19.


Spider-Woman II also appears in SECDEF 1-3, after the first apperance of Jim Rhodes as War Machine in AWC 93-95 and IM 290-291.

The problem is that according to the MCP, Jim Rhodes appears in XFOR 20-22 in between pages IM 288, so we have :

XFOR 20-22 - IM 288 - (AWC 93-95 and IM 290-291) - SECDEF 1-3

So SECDEF 1-3 is before XFOR 19 and after XFOR 20-22 *doh*


I can't check the books right now, and curiously in the Iron Man Index #8 I can't see Jim Rhodes's appearances in XFOR 20-22 mentioned anywhere. Can somebody check he appears as Iron Man and not as War Machine ? And if so, which chronology must be corrected, Wolverine's one or Spider-Woman's one ?

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by Somebody » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:23 pm

michel wrote:
Somebody wrote:In fact... Quasar has his quantum bands. So this should be before his Ultimate Nullification in Q 40 - i.e., it *can't* be during Q 42 (when Quasar's Nullified, dead, colourless, bandless and stuck in a chair).
Currently, SLEEPHS is placed in between IW and IC for Sleepwalker. Moving it backward before Q 40 would place it either during IW (so near SLEEP 18, Q 37-40 and DRSTR3 42-47, and Sleepwalker appears in DRSTR3 46), either before IW and SLEEP 18. Does the book give any clue of placement ?
Not particularly. Here's the page with the Strange/GR/Quasar cameos:
Image
michel wrote:If we move it forward, how many issues of Q does Quasar stay nullified ?
He's back in the land of the living by Q 43, but he doesn't get his quantum bands back until Q 47 (guest-starring Thunderstrike), making do with a Starbrand fragment in the meantime (his hair had also changed in the interim, away from how he's depicted in that cameo).

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by michel » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:45 pm

Thanks, Somebody. For Sleepwalker himself, aren't they any mention of an issue or an event ? If not, the easiest correction would be to move SLEEPHS before IW : Quasar would have his quantum bands, Strange wouldn't be depowered and Ghost Rider wouldn't be twisted yet with the others Midnight Sons titles.

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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by Peter Fabricius » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:09 pm

michel wrote: I can't check the books right now, and curiously in the Iron Man Index #8 I can't see Jim Rhodes's appearances in XFOR 20-22 mentioned anywhere. Can somebody check he appears as Iron Man and not as War Machine ? And if so, which chronology must be corrected, Wolverine's one or Spider-Woman's one ?
It's... complicated.
The 'next issue' text at the end of XFOR 20 says 'Iron Man vs. X-Force, XFOR 21 everybody calls him War Machine, and in XFOR 22 he is called Iron Man in a caption, and Nick Fury calls him War Machine
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Re: Spider-Man in FF 372-378

Post by Michael » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:54 pm

Yeah, but it's a plot point that Rhodey is in charge of Stark Enterprises in XFOR 20-22, so XFOR 20-22 have to take place before Rhodey quits Stark in IM 291. So Spider-Woman's chronology has to be wrong or Wolverine's must be wrong.
ETA: michel, while you're looking at inconsistencies relating to these issues, you might want to note that the Infinity Crusade is placed between X 19 and 20- that's problematic since Rogue is blind between those issues. And just to further confuse the issue, we've got UX 299 taking place after the Crusade for Cyclops and XF 90 taking place before the Crusade for Wolfsbane. That doesn't work- Scott has a conversation with Xavier in UX 299 and he tells him that Moira is leaving Genosha- Moira leaves Genosha in XF 90- those issues have to take place simultaneously.

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