Early Punisher Chronology

[wolframbane]

With the new series Official Index to the Marvel Universe: Wolverine, Punisher and Ghost Rider coming out soon, I thought it would be helpful to re-review the events of the Punisher chronology prior to ASM 129. JLH had constructed an excellently researched early chronology for the Punisher that we currently use, from which I used as the foundation for much of my research.
http://chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/vie ... 364#p34364

I have gone back and reanalyzed all these appearances, as well as some newer and overlooked earlier appearances. And I have noted all the details and subtext, cross-referencing them with other appearances, and re-ordered some appearances. I also added some behind the scenes notes for context. And although I have attempted to be exhaustive in my research as possible, it is possible that I missed a few appearances. I have also noted the numerous FB appearances with page references. Below are also chronologies I have compiled for Frank's family.

Here are my primary criteria for construction of the Punisher chronology:
1/ He underwent four tours of duty in Vietnam. Despite the fact that Frank was discharged after three tours and stated he would not return in BORN 4, he decided to return for a fourth tour after all in PUNNAM. This is also referenced in Marvel Encyclopedia #5, OHOTMU:M/K '05 and OHOTMU Hardcover #9. Thus the events of BORN 1-4 must occur before PUNNAM.
2/ His original surname was Castiglione for his first three tours, and he changed it to Castle for his fourth tour. Thus any reference to him as Castiglione is during his first three tours, and as Castle is during his fourth tour. There are of course exceptions, such as him being referred to as Castle during any obvious earlier appearance such as in BORN 1-4, when he was called Castle during his third tour despite PUNNAM stating he did not officially use the name Castle until his fourth tour.
3/ He has been depicted with numerous ranks, ranging from enlisted (Private, Private First Class, Lance Corporal, Corporal, Sergeant, etc.) to officer (Second Lieutenant, First Lieutenant, Captain, etc.) over his two military careers as Castiglione and Castle. His depiction of ranks must follow his promotion advancement (unless he was demoted, but there is no evidence of this).
4/ During his early career as the Punisher, he often numbered his War Journal Entries. These can be used to track the order of many of his early missions. Thus the first appearance of his War Journal in GSS-M 4 (Entry 342-349) must occur well after his appearances in M/SA 1 (5-19:3)-FB (Entry 1-10) and PB (Entry 58-63), and before his appearances in M/PRV 2 (Entry 362-368), M/SA 1 (Entry 374) and ASM 161 (Entry 381).
5/ Punisher MAX stories are not part of Earth-616 continuity and have been removed from the chronology. This includes appearances in PUN7 (including FB from issues #1, 44, 52, 56 and 58) and PUN:TYGER. These stories rather occur on Earth-200111, as established in OHOTMU Hardcover #5: Appendix. An exception would appear to be BORN 1-4, which has been referenced in Marvel Encyclopedia #5, OHOTMU:M/K '05 and OHOTMU Hardcover #9 as occurring on Earth-616 as well, and would appear to depict events that occurred within both Earth-616 and -200111 continuities.
6/ The deaths of his family was originally depicted in M/PRV 2 (14:6-15, 16:2-16:5, 16:8)-FB. M/SA 1 and PUN:YO 1-2 places this in "spring," and Marvel Encyclopedia #5 indicates his daughter was "seven years old." This has been retold numerous times with subtle or major variations. Here is a list of other issues this has been depicted (and this list is by no means complete): M/PRV 2 (14:6-15, 16:2-16:5, 16:8)-FB, M/SA 1 (3:5-3:6)-FB, PWJ 1 (2:5, 3:6, 4:6, 5:7, 6:6, 7:5, 8:6, 9:8, 10:5, 11:4, 12:6, 13:5, 14:7, 15:4, 16:5, 17:6, 18:5, 19:5, 20:6, 21:5, 22:4, 23:4, 24:6. 25:5, 26:4, 27:5, 28:5)-FB, PWJ 2 (4:2, 4:6, 5:3)-FB, PWJ 3 (3:3-3:4, 10:4-11:1)-FB, WI?2 10 (4:6)-FB, PUN@ 4 (2)-FB, PB (7:2, 17:1, 17:3, 17:5)-FB, PUN2 59 (18:1-18:2)-FB, PBSS 1 (2&3:2-2&3:3)-FB, PUN/CA:B&G 3-FB (24:1, 24:3, 25:5-25:8)-FB, PUN:YO 1 (1-12), PUNNAM (66:1)-FB-VO, DE:A (22:4, 26:1-26:3, 26:6, 31:2, 38:4)-FB, PUN3 17 (6:5-7:1)-FB, PUN3 18 (7:2)-FB, PUN4 3 (22)-FB, and PUN4 4 (1:2-4:1)-FB. The similar events from PUN7 1-FB occur on Earth-200111.
7/ Frank was originally depicted to have served during the Vietnam War (1965-1975), but with the event of "Marvel Time" causing modern events to retroactively slide forward, this has become progressively more untenable. He is now generally acknowledged as having served during an unspecified military conflict in Southeast Asia, and any specific reference to the Vietnam War or actual dates involved are considered topical (although Punisher of Earth-200111 is still depicted as a Vietnam War veteran of uncanny vitality for his age). On a personal note, I refer this event as the "War of Southeast Asia," an enigmatic and irregular conflict involving much of Southeast Asia on Earth-616, and it encompasses any retconned wars that the US has been involved in Southeast Asia in the past few decades (such as Ben Grimm or Thunderbolt Ross during WWII, Charles Xavier and Cain Marko during the Korean War, Frank Castle and Flash Thompson during the Vietnam War, or any Sin-Cong conflict), while being unconnected to the prior historical wars (WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War) fought in those same geographical areas. Similarly, I also refer to other retconned wars similarly, such as the "War of Europe" (for Reed Richards and Thunderbolt Ross during WWII) and the "War of the Middle East" (for Iron Man and Flash Thompson during the Gulf Wars).

SYNOPSIS
PWJ 25 (12:5-13)-FB-BTS [parents leave Sicily, mother is pregnant w/ Frank]
PUN3 18 (7:6-7:7)-FB [young Frank witnesses a murder]
PUN4 1 (16:2)-FB [young Frank plays baseball]
PWJ 18 (11:4-13:4)-FB [young Frank goes swimming]
PUN:INTRUDER (34:2-34:6, 44-45:1)-FB [decides to leave seminary for Marines]
BTS [enlists in Marines, undergoes "a year of training" according to OHOTMU:M/K '05, probably receives recruit training at Parris Island (where he quits smoking) according to NAM 67, and SOI training at Camp Lejeune according to PWJ2 3]
PWJ2 3 (1, 6-7, 9-10:1, 10:3, 10:5)-FB [erroneously called "Castle," "before the war," trained by faux Captain America at Camp Lejeune]
PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (10:2-11)-FB [erroneously called "Castle," at Big Nothing "between basic and war," before Maria is mentioned as pregnant in PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (15-16:3)-FB]
NAM 67 (2:4-19)-FB ["Private" "Castiglione," begins his "third day in country," starts his first tour of "thirteen months," "early in his military career" according to OHOTMU:M/K '05]
NAM 68 (2:4-20)-FB ["Castiglione," "only three days in country"]
NAM 69 (2:5-16:4)-FB ["Castiglione," in stockade for "weeks," "months" before NAM 69 (16:5-18:4)-FB]
BTS [befriends Sgt. Mike Hauley, according to M/PRV 2, reference to 1967 ("two years" after "1965") is topical]
BTS [witnesses Marine Joe Rainey get blown away on "June 28," according to PUN2 4, reference to "1967" is topical]
* BTS ["his first tour... began with Tet in sixty-eight" according to BORN 1]
* PUN2 1 (7:9)-FB [photo w/ Curtis Hoyle and Bruce Ayres during "Marble Mountain Airbase, Tet, '68," references to 1968 are topical]
PB (19:4)-FB [romance to Angela Wynoski in Vietnam, probably before marriage to Maria]
PUN4 1 (8:2)-FB [walks through jungle]
PUN2 100 (1)-FB [wedding to Maria (on photograph), "during his early military career, [he] married Maria Elizabeth, who soon became pregnant with Lisa Barbara Castle," according to Marvel Encyclopedia #5]
PUN2 59 (13)-FB [returns to Vietnam, probably from after being on leave, Maria is pregnant]
PUN3 18 (7:3)-FB [in battle in Vietnam]
PWJ 21 (6:6-7:1)-FB [w/ David Keeton in battle]
PWJ 21 (7:2-8:2)-FB [w/ David Keeton, R&R in Philippines, noted that Maria is already his wife, "fifteen years" ago]
ASM 175 (5:3-6:4)-FB [Sergeant or "Sarge," rescued by Burt Kenyon, who is discharged "two months later"]
PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (15-16:3)-FB [erroneously called "Castle" (name not used until after both his children are born), Maria mentioned as pregnant, rank unknown but beneath Sgt. Cleve Gorman, in Siem Pang, Cambodia]
PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (45:3-47)-FB [erroneously called "Castle," "tour about up," sometime before the discharge of Kenyon, vs Gorman, still in Siem Pang, Cambodia]
NAM 69 (16:5-18:4)-FB ["Castiglione," completes first tour after "a year and one month," "months" after NAM 69 (2:5-16:4)-FB, noted that he later reenlisted for "two more tours" and "he might even of re-upped another time under a different name"]
PUN@ 4 (1:4)-FB [in maternity ward, despite depiction between PUN@ 4 (1:3)-FB and PUN@ 4 (1:5)-FB this must be birth of Barbara, as Frank Jr. was apparently born will Frank was still in Vietnam between BORN (1-18) and BORN 4 (19-22)]
BTS [w/ "Special Forces" during "his second tour," rumors of "wetwork in Cambodia, black ops, the company, an N.V.A. General sniped just outside of Hanoi," according to BORN 1, also he "became involved in Special Forces, where he distinguished himself in undercover operations alongside such men as the sadistic De Sade, the mysterious Spook and infantryman 'Ice' Phillips," according to Marvel Encyclopedia #5, as referenced in PSS 1, DE:A and PWJ 52]
PWZ 20 (12:3-16:3)-FB [w/ DX Hanrahan in Cambodia, part of "MACV SOG" Special Ops, according to BORN 1 he was "Special Forces" during "his second tour," with "wetwork in Cambodia"]
PWZ 21 (6:1-8:1, 8:4-9:4)-FB [w/ DX Hanrahan in Cambodia, according to BORN 1 he was "Special Forces" during "his second tour," with "wetwork in Cambodia"]
BTS [begins third tour, Maria is pregnant, either "found out she was pregnant a week after I began my third tour" according to BORN 3, or became pregnant during "a leave during the latter part of his third tour... at the time [he] led a platoon in Firebase Valley Forge" according to OHOTMU:M/K '05]
BTS [arrives at Firebase Valley Forge during "his third tour," "six months" before "October," probably in April]
PUNNAM (3:1-3:3)-FB ["Sergeant Castiglione," sets tripwire in jungle at "the end of my third tour," probably near Valley Forge]
PUNNAM (3:4-4:3)-FB ["Sergeant Castiglione," w/ 1st Marine Division, informed he cannot reenlist at "the end of my third tour," probably briefly recalled from Valley Forge to Da Nang]
BTS [promotion from Sergeant in PUNNAM (3:4-4:3)-FB to Captain in BORN 1]
PUN4 3 (8:1-8:4)-FB [erroneously called "Castle," observed by demon Olivier, probably shortly before BORN 1 due to Olivier's interest in him]
BORN 1 ["Captain," erroneously called "Castle" (name not used until fourth tour), "late October" during "his third tour," reference to "1971" is topical, hears voice that is probably Olivier, note BORN series depicts events from both Earth-616 and Earth-200111 (Punisher MAX)]
BORN 2 ["Captain," erroneously called "Castle," patrols near Valley Forge]
BORN 3 ["Captain," erroneously called "Castle," defends Valley Forge, Maria is pregnant, reference to Barbara as "four" is probably incorrect]
BORN 4 (1-18) ["Captain," erroneously called "Castle", served for "three tours," survives Valley Forge and gets early discharge]
BTS [son Frank Jr. born, apparently between BORN 4 (1-18) and BORN 4 (19-22), as Maria was sill pregnant in BORN 3 but Frank Jr. appeared in BORN 4 (19-22), note that Frank Jr. was born "on a leave of absence during his third tour" according to Marvel Encyclopedia #5]
BORN 4 (19-22) [discharged, returns home to family]
PUNNAM (4:4-6)-FB ["Castiglione," a "few months" after having "spent three tours in the Nam," brawl in New York bar, wife and two children mentioned]
PUNNAM (7:1)-FB [name changed from "Castiglione" to "Castle," enlists at Fort Dix]
PUN4 1 (16:3)-FB ["Castle," given military fatigues]
PUNNAM (7:2-7:4)-FB ["Castle," basic training at Fort Dix]
MICROCHIP 1 (1-3) ["Private Castle," in boot camp, signs up for sniper training]
PUN:INTRUDER (43:1-43:4)-FB [unofficial flight simulator training, probably when he attended jump school in PUNNAM (7:5-7:6)-FB]
PUNNAM (7:5-7:6)-FB [advanced training at Fort Benning, awarded Green Beret status, dispatched to Vietnam]
MICROCHIP 1 (9-13) ["Castle," "only two days" into his "first tour of duty" (as Castle) and fourth tour in total, probably outranked by "lieutenant"]
PBSS 3 (8-14)-FB [w/ "the 5th Group," "Civilian Indigenous Defense Group," "many tours in Southeast Asia," w/ Junior in Laos]
PUNNAM (8-64)-FB ["Sgt. Frank Castle," "his fourth tour," "a year and a half" since last in Vietnam in BORN 4 (1-18), w/ "the Fifth Group," "Civilian Irregular Defense Group," part of MACV, w/ Junior who is wounded, vs Death Doctor]
PUNNAM (65:1-65:4)-FB [kills Colonel in Saigon]
NAM 69 (19:1)-BTS-FB [after Colonel is killed]
MICROCHIP 1 (19-20:2) [visits Roger Wong in military prison, has been active long enough to have respectable war record]
MICROCHIP 1 (20:3-21:2) [given recruitment duty in New York for "a month" and "a long four weeks," "two weeks" after MICROCHIP 1 (19-20:2)]
MICROCHIP 1 (21:3-22) [rejects Linus Leiberman for Marines, "three weeks" after MICROCHIP 1 (20:3-21:2), reference to "1971" in MICROCHIP 2 is topical]
PUN2 77 (10:5-10:7)-FB ["the corps' best sniper," trained in survival by Phan Bighawk]
NAM 52 ["Sergeant Frank Castle," "set a new sniping record," a sniper, hunts Monkey]
NAM 53 [kills Monkey]
PHS 2 (2:2-3)-FB ["Second Lieutenant" during "Christmas" (December), must be as Castle during his fourth tour, because as Castiglione he was promoted from Sergeant to Captain sometime during his third tour (April-October)]
PUN5 6 (14)-VO-FB ["Lieutenant Castle," w/ First Platoon, has conversation w/ Sgt. Joe Perrett]
PWJ 4 (2:3-7)-FB ["Lt. Castle" and "Lieutenant," w/ Schoonover and von Burian in 3rd Marine Company, squadron in Indochina, reference to this as "his second tour of duty" from Marvel Encyclopedia #5 is probably incorrect]
PWJ 5 (4:4-6:1)-BTS-FB ["Lt. Castle," escapes BTS in helicopter]
PWJ 4 (19:5)-BTS-FB [recovers BTS in helicopter]
PUN/CA:B&G 3-FB (24:2, 25:1-25:4)-FB ["Captain Castle," on patrol]
BTS [his ordnance man is Reiss, who eventually loses his legs in Quang Tri province, placement uncertain but Reiss later refers to Frank as "Captain" in M/SA 1]
BTS [unofficially flies an F-105 while flying with Marine Air according to PUN:INTRUDER]
BTS ["Captain," saves Ortiz at Saigon bar, according to PUN2 13, probably while stationed at US Embassy in Saigon mentioned in PB]
BTS [w/ Quincy Jefferson and Angela Wynoski, attached to marine contingent at US Embassy in Saigon until "the end" of the war in "April," according to PB, reference to "'75" is topical]
PUN@ 4 (1:1)-FB ["Captain Frank Castle," gets Distinguished Service Cross]
PUN@ 4 (1:2)-FB [left marines, w/ Maria and baby (probably Frank Jr.) at train station]
PUN4 1 (8:3)-FB [w/ family plays in water]
MICROCHIP 1 (23) [works for security firm, "a few years" after MICROCHIP 1 (21:3-22)]
PUN@ 4 (1:3)-FB [tells Maria he accepted offer to train Special Forces, probably after his security job in MICROCHIP 1 (23)]
PWZ 21 (10-12)-FB [w/ family meets DX Hanrahan at Halloween]
PUN@ 4 (1:5)-FB [w/ family at Christmas (in photo), a "couple of years" after PUN@ 4 (1:3)-FB]
PHS 2 (7-8)-FB [w/ Maria, "the last Christmas I was to have with Maria and the kids"]
PUN4 1 (15:3-15:4)-FB [has ice cream w/ Lucy Mellace, "a time when the madness of war had ended and the other... the other had yet to begin"]
PWZ 24 (9:4-9:5)-FB [w/ Barbara hides Maria's birthday present]
PWZ 24 (15)-FB [in hospital for burst appendix, visited by family]
PUN2 100 (21:6, 39:1-39:4)-FB [w/ children plays in yards while Maria videotapes]
PUN2 100 (26:1-26:3)-VO-FB [videotapes Maria painting wall]
PUN@ 4 (1:6)-FB [called about getting Presidential Freedom Award]
PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (26)-FB [w/ family goes to bed, going to park tomorrow]
*M/PRV 2 (14:6-15, 16:2-16:5, 16:8)-FB [family killed in Central Park, "spring" according to M/SA 1, "July" according to PWJ 2, Barbara was "seven years old" according to PUN:INTRUDER and Marvel Encyclopedia #5] ~ M/SA 1 (3:5-3:6)-FB, PWJ 1 (2:5, 3:6, 4:6, 5:7, 6:6, 7:5, 8:6, 9:8, 10:5, 11:4, 12:6, 13:5, 14:7, 15:4, 16:5, 17:6, 18:5, 19:5, 20:6, 21:5, 22:4, 23:4, 24:6. 25:5, 26:4, 27:5, 28:5)-FB, PWJ 2 (4:2, 4:6, 5:3)-FB, PWJ 3 (3:3-3:4, 10:4-11:1)-FB, WI?2 10 (4:6)-FB, PUN@ 4 (2)-FB, PB (7:2, 17:1, 17:3, 17:5)-FB, PUN2 59 (18:1-18:2)-FB, PBSS 1 (2&3:2-2&3:3)-FB, PUN/CA:B&G 3-FB (24:1, 24:3, 25:5-25:8)-FB, PUN:YO 1 (1-12), PUNNAM (66:1)-FB-VO, DE:A (22:4, 26:1-26:3, 26:6, 31:2, 38:4)-FB, PUN3 17 (6:5-7:1)-FB, PUN3 18 (7:2)-FB, PUN4 3 (22)-FB, and PUN4 4 (1:2-4:1)-FB.
PUN:YO 1 ["Captain Frank Castle," "spring," aftermath of murders]
PUN:YO 2 (1-6:1) ["spring," survives mob hit at hospital]
*PUNNAM (66:1)-FB-VO [news report about the murders "today," Frank "is now missing from the hospital"]
PUN@ 4 (3:1-3:4)-FB [talks to police about Costa, leaves hospital]
PUN:YO 2 (6:2-15) [identifies murderers, meets McTeer]
M/SA 1 (4)-FB ["Captain," told by Laviano murderers will go free]
PUN:YO 2 (16-22) [considers suicide]
PUN:YO 3 [w/ McTeer, harasses Costa mob, ends "ten days" after PUN:YO 1]
PUN:YO 4 [becomes Punisher, scars Jigsaw, starts his "journal... first entry"]
M/SA 1 (5-19:3)-FB [w/ Reiss (Mechanic), kills family's murderers, Bruno Costa killed BTS by Audrey, "War Journal, Entry One" to "War Journal, Entry Ten," "a few months" after deaths of family according to OHOTMU:DE 10]
PUN4 4 (4:5-5)-FB [kills Frank Costa, note that it was mentioned but never depicted that Frank Costa was killed by Audrey in M/SA 1 (5-19:3)-FB]
* PUN3 17 (7:2)-FB ["coupla months" after family killed]
PB (12:3)-FB [battles drug dealers, learns of Ramone Drug Cartel from informant]
PB [vs Ramone Drug Cartel, "six months" after family killed, "War Journal, Entry 58" to "Entry 63"]
ASM 202 (8:5-9)-FB [vs Lorenzo Jacobi, reference to "more than a decade" before ASM 202 is probably incorrect]
MICROCHIP 2 (8) [montage scene battling terrorists, druglords and mobsters]
KEY 3 [w/ time-traveling Killpower vs Huns and Street Amazons, "an early mission" according to OHOTMU:M/K '05, "an early point in the Punisher's career" from Marvel Encyclopedia #5]
ASM 129 (7:2)-FB [vs mob, newspaper photo]
ASM 129 [w/ Spider-Man vs Jackal, Mechanic murdered, six months after deaths of family according to Punisher Anniversary Magazine, Punisher worked with Mechanic "for the first six months of his career" according to Marvel Encyclopedia #5]
ASM 134 [w/ Spider-Man vs Tarantula]
ASM 135 [w/ Spider-Man vs Tarantula]
MICROCHIP 2 (11) [Roger Wong becomes his weapons supplier, "to replace the Mechanic" from Marvel Encyclopedia #5]
MICROCHIP 2 (15-22) [Wong killed, forms partnership w/ Microchip]
BTS [Martin Longmire becomes his weapons dealer, possibly his former "supply sergeant," according to PUN2 4, recruited "when Wong was killed" according to Marvel Encyclopedia #5]
GSS-M 4 [w/ Spider-Man vs Moses Magnum, "War Journal Entry Number 342" to "War Journal Entry Number 349"
M/PRV 2 [vs Mark Christianson, "War Journal Entry Number 362" to "War Journal Entry Number 368"]
M/SA 1 [kills mob assassin Audrey, hunted her for "months," "War Journal Entry, Entry 374"]
BGH 3 (4-8, 10-20)-FB [vs Bullseye in Nicaragua]
BGH 2 (22)-FB [aftermath of battle w/ Bullseye in Nicaragua]
W/P 1 (1-16) [vs Napoleon who flees to Erewhon]
ASM 161 [w/ Spider-Man & Nightcrawler, "War Journal Entry Entry 381"]


PUNISHER II/FRANK CASTIGLIONE/"FRANK CASTLE"
PWJ 25 (12:5-13)-FB-BTS
PUN3 18 (7:6-7:7)-FB
PUN4 1 (16:2)-FB
PWJ 18 (11:4-13:4)-FB
PUN:INTRUDER (34:2-34:6, 44-45:1)-FB
PWJ2 3 (1, 6-7, 9-10:1, 10:3, 10:5)-FB
PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (10:2-11)-FB
NAM 67 (2:4-19)-FB
NAM 68 (2:4-20)-FB
NAM 69 (2:5-16:4)-FB
* PUN2 1 (7:9)-FB
PB (19:4)-FB
PUN4 1 (8:2)-FB
PUN2 100 (1)-FB
PUN2 59 (13)-FB
PUN3 18 (7:3)-FB
PWJ 21 (6:6-8:2)-FB
ASM 175 (5:3-6:4)-FB
PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (15-16:3)-FB
PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (45:3-47)-FB
NAM 69 (16:5-18:4)-FB
PUN@ 4 (1:4)-FB
PWZ 20 (12:3-16:3)-FB
PWZ 21 (6:1-8:1, 8:4-9:4)-FB
PUNNAM (3:1-4:3)-FB
PUN4 3 (8:1-8:4)-FB
BORN 1
BORN 2
BORN 3
BORN 4
PUNNAM (4:4-7:1)-FB
PUN4 1 (16:3)-FB
PUNNAM (7:2-7:4)-FB
MICROCHIP 1 (1-3)
PUN:INTRUDER (43:1-43:4)-FB
PUNNAM (7:5-7:6)-FB
MICROCHIP 1 (9-13)
PBSS 3 (8-14)-FB
PUNNAM (8-65:4)-FB
NAM 69 (19:1)-BTS-FB
MICROCHIP 1 (19-22)
PUN2 77 (10:5-10:7)-FB
NAM 52
NAM 53
PHS 2 (2:2-3)-FB
PUN5 6 (14)-VO-FB
PWJ 4 (2:3-7)-FB
PWJ 5 (4:4-6:1)-BTS-FB
PWJ 4 (19:5)-BTS-FB
PUN/CA:B&G 3-FB (24:2, 25:1-25:4)-FB
PUN@ 4 (1:1-1:2)-FB
PUN4 1 (8:3)-FB
MICROCHIP 1 (23)
PUN@ 4 (1:3)-FB
PWZ 21 (10-12)-FB
PUN@ 4 (1:5)-FB
PHS 2 (7-8)-FB
PUN4 1 (15:3-15:4)-FB
PWZ 24 (9:4-9:5, 15)-FB
PUN2 100 (21:6, 39:1-39:4)-FB
PUN2 100 (26:1-26:3)-BTS-FB
PUN@ 4 (1:6)-FB
PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (26)-FB
M/PRV 2 (14:6-15, 16:2-16:5, 16:8)-FB
PUN:YO 1
PUN:YO 2 (1-6:1)
PUN@ 4 (3:1-3:4)-FB
PUN:YO 2 (6:2-15)
M/SA 1 (4)-FB
PUN:YO 2 (16-22)
PUN:YO 3
PUN:YO 4
M/SA 1 (5-19:3)-FB
PUN4 4 (4:5-5)-FB
* PUN3 17 (7:2)-FB
PB (12:3)-FB
PB
ASM 202 (8:5-9)-FB
MICROCHIP 2 (8)
KEY 3
ASM 129 (7:2)-FB
{ASM 129}
ASM 134
ASM 135
MICROCHIP 2 (11)
MICROCHIP 2 (15-22)
GSS-M 4
M/PRV 2
M/SA 1
BGH 3
BGH 2 (22)-FB
W/P 1 (1-16)
ASM 161
...

CASTLE, FRANK DAVID "FRANK JR."
BORN 4 (19-22)
PUN@ 4 (1:2)-FB
PUN4 1 (8:3)-FB
PWZ 21 (10-12)-FB
PUN@ 4 (1:5)-FB
PWZ 24 (15)-FB
PUN2 100 (21:6, 39:1-39:4)-FB
PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (26)-FB
{M/PRV 2 (14:6-15, 16:2-16:5, 16:8)-FB}
PUN:YO 1

CASTLE, LISA BARBARA "CHRISTIE"
PUN@ 4 (1:4)-FB-BTS
BORN 4 (19-22)
PUN4 1 (8:3)-FB
PWZ 21 (10-12)-FB
PUN@ 4 (1:5)-FB
PWZ 24 (9:4-9:5, 15)-FB
PUN2 100 (21:6, 39:1-39:4)-FB
PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (26)-FB
{M/PRV 2 (14:6-15, 16:2-16:5, 16:8)-FB}
PUN:YO 1

CASTLE, MARIA ELIZABETH (née FALCONIO)
PUN2 100 (1)-FB
PUN2 59 (13)-FB
PUN@ 4 (1:4)-FB-BTS
BORN 4 (19-22)
PUN@ 4 (1:2)-FB
PUN4 1 (8:3)-FB
PUN@ 4 (1:3)-FB
PWZ 21 (10-12)-FB
PUN@ 4 (1:5)-FB
PHS 2 (7-8)-FB
PWZ 24 (15)-FB
PUN2 100 (21:6, 39:1-39:4)-VO-FB
PUN2 100 (26:1-26:3)-FB
PUN@ 4 (1:6)-FB
PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (26)-FB
{M/PRV 2 (14:6-15, 16:2-16:5, 16:8)-FB}
PUN:YO 1

[Paul Bourcier]

Awesome, man!

[Paul Bourcier]

wolframbane wrote:

M/PRV 2 (14:6-16:5, 16:8)-FB [family killed in Central Park, "spring" according to M/SA 1, Barbara was "seven years old" according to Marvel Encyclopedia #5] ~ M/SA 1 (3:5-3:6)-FB ~ PUN4 3 (22)-FB ~ PUN4 4 (1:2-4:1)-FB ~ PUN3 18 (7:2)-FB ~ PB (7:2, 17:1, 17:3, 17:5)-FB ~ PUN2 59 (18:1-18:2)-FB ~ PUN@ 4 (2)-FB ~ DE:A (22:4, 26:1-26:3, 26:6, 31:2, 38:4)-FB ~ PUN/CA:B&G 3-FB (24:1, 24:3, 25:5-25:8)-FB ~ PBSS 1 (2&3:2-2&3:3)-FB ~ WI?2 10 (4:6)-FB

PUN3 18 (7:2)-FB exactly duplicates PUN3 17 (7:1)-FB, so the latter should be listed, as it was published first. And PUN3 17 (6:5)-FB is not listed above. Is there a way to break all this out frame by frame in sequence, as the MCP appears to do, including that newly discovered panel?

[Paul Bourcier]

More questions.

Is there any placement for PUN3 17 (7:2)-FB, which shows Punisher going to war against organized crime (firing pistols)?

How about a chronology for Rocco Venturi, who was revealed in PUN3 17 to be one of the goons who killed the Castles? His next appearance after the murders (and his last appearance) is in PUN3 17 (11:2-14:1)-FB. Can he be said to appear in any of the panels showing the Castle killings? If not, would he be BTS in all of them?

[wolframbane]

Found another FB and added it above.

* BTS ["his first tour... began with Tet in sixty-eight" according to BORN 1]
* PUN2 1 (7:9)-FB [photo w/ Curtis Hoyle and Bruce Ayres during "Marble Mountain Airbase, Tet, '68," references to 1968 are topical]

[wolframbane]

Is there any placement for PUN3 17 (7:2)-FB, which shows Punisher going to war against organized crime (firing pistols)?

It states "coupla months later, Castle reappears as the Punisher and starts plowing a path through organized crime."

So it is months after his family's deaths, after he becomes the Punisher and after he starts destroying organized crime. I would place it after he took out the Costa mob.

PUN4 4 (4:5-5)-FB [kills Frank Costa, note that it was mentioned but never depicted that Frank Costa was killed by Audrey in M/SA 1 (5-19:3)-FB]
* PUN3 17 (7:2)-FB ["coupla months" after family killed]
PB (12:3)-FB [battles drug dealers, learns of Ramone Drug Cartel from informant]

[wolframbane]

I have since found some more variant flashbacks to the death of the Castle family. Below is a complete list of what I have thus far (but there may still be more I have not come across as yet). I will organize them into a panel by panel breakdown for you Paul. Note that WI?2 10 (4:6)-FB is from Earth-616, not the What If story itself.

M/PRV 2 (14:6-15, 16:2-16:5, 16:8)-FB, 1975.
M/SA 1 (3:5-3:6)-FB, 1976.
PWJ 1 (2:5, 3:6, 4:6, 5:7, 6:6, 7:5, 8:6, 9:8, 10:5, 11:4, 12:6, 13:5, 14:7, 15:4, 16:5, 17:6, 18:5, 19:5, 20:6, 21:5, 22:4, 23:4, 24:6. 25:5, 26:4, 27:5, 28:5)-FB, Nov 1988.
PWJ 2 (4:2, 4:6, 5:3)-FB, Dec 1988.
PWJ 3 (3:3-3:4, 10:4-11:1)-FB, Feb 1989.
WI?2 10 (4:6)-FB, Feb 1990.
PUN@ 4 (2)-FB, 1991.
PB (7:2, 17:1, 17:3, 17:5)-FB, 1991.
PUN2 59 (18:1-18:2)-FB, Jan 1992.
PBSS 1 (2&3:2-2&3:3)-FB, Nov 1992.
PUN/CA:B&G 3-FB (24:1, 24:3, 25:5-25:8)-FB, 1992.
PUN:YO 1 (1-12), Dec 1994.
PUNNAM (66:1)-FB-VO, 1994
DE:A (22:4, 26:1-26:3, 26:6, 31:2, 38:4)-FB, Aug 1995.
PUN3 17 (6:5-7:1)-FB, Mar 1997.
PUN3 18 (7:2)-FB, Apr 1997.
PUN4 3 (22)-FB, Jan 1999.
PUN4 4 (1:2-4:1)-FB, Feb 1999.

[Paul Bourcier]

Thanks, wolframbane. I apologize that my request probably wasn't clear. I was wondering if we can get a chronology of the incident itself, moment by moment, as told by all those FBs that contain new information. I don't believe all the FB panels you list show exactly the same thing, so how do we weed out the repeat FBs (rfbs) from the original content FBs? And what source(s) do each of the rfbs repeat?

[wolframbane]

Posted another FB. It occurs the same day Frank's family was killed, but after he got out of the hospital in PUN:YO 2. It is a news broadcast, and Frank does not actually appear, so I added it in the synopsis for detail but did not add it to the actual Punisher chronology.

*PUNNAM (66:1)-FB-VO [news report about the murders "today," Frank "is now missing from the hospital"]

[wolframbane]

Here is my analysis of the deaths of the Castle family. I have attempted to reconcile the minor variations in the story and have reviewed every panel from the above list, although further analysis of the Punisher series may reveal as yet unreviewed further flashback details. Anything annotated with a "~" is previously depicted and can probably be disregarded.


PUN:RETURN TO BIG NOTHING (26)-FB [Castle family go to bed the night before going to the park]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

M/PRV 2 (14:6-15:2)-FB [Castle family walks through park]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.
Maria: Please, darling -- don't walk so fast. We're going on a picnic -- not a combat patrol!
Frank: Old habits die hard. This is the first morning in almost a year when I haven't wakened in a sleeping bag. It's good to be home.
Maria: Mmmm. You know it, handsome man.
Barbara: Daddy. Kiss me too. Kiss me too.
Frank: Jealousy at your age? I pity the boy who falls in love with you sweetheart. You're likely to monopolize him every --

PWJ 1 (2:5)-FB [Castle family walks through park]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

~ PWJ 3 (3:3)-FB [Castle family walks through park]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

PWJ 1 (3:6, 4:6)-FB [Castle family set up picnic spot and unpack food]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

PWJ 1 (5:7, 6:6)-FB [Castle family have a picnic, observed by unknown party from behind the trees]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., BTS Maggia (unseen)

PUN3 17 (6:5)-FB [Castle family have a picnic, observed by Maggia from behind the trees]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa, Matt Skinner, Rocco Venturi

PUN4 4 (1:2-1:3)-FB [Frank and Maria watch children play with a frisbee]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

PWJ 1 (7:5)-FB [Frank and Maria under a tree, children play with a kite]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

PUN2 59 (18:1)-FB [Frank and Maria under a tree, children play with a kite off-panel, kites can be seen]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle
Maria: Frank, I'm going to check on the kids...
Frank: Don't be long. I want to feed you some grapes.

PUN@ 4 (2:1-2:2)-FB [Frank and Maria under a tree, children play with a kite, Maria goes to get the children]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.
Maria: I'm going to find the kids.
Frank: Okay.

PWJ 1 (8:6, 9:8)-FB [Frank and his children play with a kite]
Frank Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

PB (17:1)-FB [Frank and his children play with a kite]
Frank Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

DE:A (22:4)-FB [Frank and his children play with a kite, Maria begins to pack up picnic]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

PWJ 3 (10:4)-FB [Bruno and Maggia prepare to kill Forrest Hunt]
Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner, Forrest Hunt

PUN/CA:B&G 3-FB (24:1, 24:3, 25:5-25:7)-FB [Maria and Barbara sit on a blanket, Frank and Frank Jr. fly a kite, almost encounter the Maggia, Hunt held down by Maggia]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Frank Castle Jr., Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner, Forrest Hunt
Frank: It's getting away from us -- right back, Maria!
Maria: Not too far, Frank -- that movie we promised the kids starts soon!
Frank: There's the kite in there, Franky!
Frank Jr.: Got it!
Frank: be careful, kid, you don't know what's in there! Watch your step!
Frank Jr.: It's over here, Daddy!

DE:A (26:1-26:2)-FB [Frank, Maria and the children play with a kite, Maggia gun down Hunt (probably with silencers) and observe the Castle family]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Leon Kolsky, Forrest Hunt

PUN4 4 (1:4-2:1)-FB [Frank Jr. sees something in the forest, the Castle family witnesses the Maggia hanging Forrest Hunt from a tree]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner, Forrest Hunt
Frank Jr.: Dad?

PWJ 1 (10:5)-FB [Castle family is seen by Maggia]
Frank Castle, Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner, Forrest Hunt

~ PWJ 2 (4:2)-FB [Castle family is seen by Maggia]
Frank Castle, Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner, Forrest Hunt

~ PWJ 3 (10:5)-FB [Castle family is seen by Maggia]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner, Forrest Hunt

~ PB (17:3)-FB [Castle family is seen by Maggia]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner, Forrest Hunt

~ PUN4 4 (2:2)-FB [Castle family is seen by Maggia]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa, Byron Hannigan, Matt Skinner, Forrest Hunt

PWJ 1 (11:4, 12:6)-FB [Forrest Hunt hangs from a tree]
Forrest Hunt

~ PWJ 2 (5:3)-FB [Forrest Hunt hangs from a tree]
Forrest Hunt

PWJ 1 (13:5)-FB [Castle family and the Maggia stare at one another]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner, Forrest Hunt

M/PRV 2 (15:3-15:4)-FB [Castle family encounter Bruno Costa and Maggia, Forrest Hunt hanging uspide down from a tree]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner, Forrest Hunt
Maria: Dear God in Heaven.
Maggioso: Seems we've got company, Bruno.
Bruno: Too bad for them they wandered in during our little family execution --! Now they're witnesses. -- And we can't let them go.

~ M/SA 1 (3:5-3:6)-FB [Castle family encounter Bruno Costa and Maggia, Forrest Hunt hanging uspide down from a tree]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner, Forrest Hunt
Maria: God in Heaven!!
Maggioso: We've got company, Bruno!
Bruno: Too bad for them... wandering in on our little family execution! Now they're witnesses... we can't let them go!
Another Maggioso: So... we won't!

M/PRV 2 (15:5)-FB [Castle family starts to run away]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.
Frank: Get out of here, honey! Run!!

PWJ 1 (14:7)-FB [Bruno and Maggia point their firearms]
Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Forrest Hunt

M/PRV 2 (15:6)-FB [Bruno and the Maggia open fire]
Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner

~ PWJ 1 (15:4)-FB [the guns of the Maggia open fire]

PWJ 1 (16:5)-FB [Maria and children gunned down]
Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

~ PWJ 2 (4:6)-FB [Maria and children gunned down]
Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

~ WI?2 10 (4:6)-FB [Maria and children gunned down]
Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

~ PB (7:2)-FB [Maria and children gunned down]
Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa

~ PBSS 1 (2&3:2)-FB [Maria gunned down]
Maria Castle

~ PBSS 1 (2&3:3) [children gunned down]
Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

~ DE:A (26:3)-FB [Maria and children gunned down]
Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Luis Allegre, Leon Kolsky

~ DE:A (31:2)-FB [Maria and children gunned down]
Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

~ DE:A (38:4)-FB [Maria and children gunned down]
Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

~ PUN4 3 (22)-FB [Maria and children gunned down]
Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

~ PUN4 4 (2)-FB [Maria and children gunned down]
Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

PUN@ 4 (2:3)-FB [Frank hears the gunshots]
Frank Castle

~ PUN2 59 (18:2)-FB [Frank hears the gunshots]
Frank Castle

PUN@ 4 (2:4-2:5)-FB [Frank sees his family being gunned down, he lunges at the Maggia who open fire upon him]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner
Maggioso: Look! There's another one!
Another Maggioso: #$%@#$ curious bystanders...

PUN4 4 (2:3-2:4)-FB [Frank leaps in front of his family, Maggia continue to fire]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa, Byron Hannigan, Matt Skinner

PWJ 1 (17:6)-FB [Frank shot and releases kite wire]
Frank Castle

PWJ 3 (3:4)-FB [Frank, Maria and children gunned down]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner, Forrest Hunt

~ PB (17:5)-FB [Frank, Maria and children gunned down]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

~ PUN3 17 (7:1)-FB [Frank, Maria and children gunned down]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

~ PUN3 18 (7:2)-FB [Frank, Maria and children gunned down]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

PUN/CA:B&G 3-FB (25:8)-FB [Frank is splattered with his family's blood]
Frank Castle

PUN@ 4 (2:6)-FB [wounded Frank falls to the ground, Maggia run away]
Frank Castle, Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky, Matt Skinner
Maggioso: Am-scray! I hear sirens!

PUN:YO 1 (1:1-1:4) [drunken McTeer awakened nearby by gunshots]
Mike McTeer
McTeer: She-suss. Wssat? -- Firecracker. She-suss! Kids!

DE:A (26:6)-FB [Maria and the children lay dead on the ground]
Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

PWJ 1 (18:5, 19:5, 20:6)-FB [kite falls to the ground]
Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

PWJ 1 (21:5, 22:4)-FB [wounded Frank awakens]
Frank Castle

M/PRV 2 (16:2-16:5, 16:8)-FB [wounded Frank finds and holds the dead Maria]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.
Frank: They're -- they're gone now -- must have thought -- we were dead. I think I've been -- shot -- honey. Don't worry -- nothing -- serious -- ? Honey? Answer m-- No. Dear Lord, no -- NOOOOOO

PWJ 1 (23:4, 24:6. 25:5, 26:4, 27:5, 28:5)-FB [wounded Frank finds his dead children, bloody kite drifts away]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Forrest Hunt

PWJ 3 (11:1)-FB [wonded Frank weeps for his dead family]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Forrest Hunt

PUN4 4 (4:1)-FB [wounded Frank holds his dead family]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr.

BTS [wounded Frank must pass out again, as he awakens again in PUN:YO 1 (4-12)]

PUN:YO 1 (1:5-3) [drunken McTeer finds Forrest Hunt and gunned down Castle family]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Mike McTeer, Forrest Hunt

PUN:YO 1 (4-12) [police investigate murders, Frank awakens again and realizes his family is dead]
Frank Castle, Maria Castle, Barbara Castle, Frank Castle Jr., Mike McTeer, Forrest Hunt, John Laviano, Stan Witts


With regards to the Maggia thugs, they are Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky and Matt Skinner. Although the number may vary from panel to panel, there has never been more than five depicted together. So despite Rocco Venturi claiming to have been there during the murders is improbable, as he would have been a sixth man out. However, he may have been present but not on-panel, perhaps he was nearby acting as a lookout. Therefore I would treat him as BTS in M/PRV 2 (14:6-15, 16:2-16:5, 16:8)-FB. I would place his chronology as:

VENTURI, ROCCO
M/PRV 2 (14:6-15, 16:2-16:5, 16:8)-FB-BTS
{PUN3 17 (11:2-14:1)-FB}

Also note that Leon Kolsky and Matt Skinner were only identified by their last names in M/SA 1, but I believe their first names were revealed in OHOTMU Hardcover #9: Punisher. And in the numerous appearances, it was often difficult if not impossible to identify which Maggia thug was which, so if unidentifiable I simply referred to them as "Maggioso" (a variation of Mafioso).

And some final details about that fateful day:
1/ The murders occurred in "spring" (M/SA 1, PUN:YO 1, PUN:YO 2).
2/ PWJ 1-2 occurs on the anniversary of their deaths.
3/ The murders occurred when Barbara was "seven years old," the "same age" as Margaret Pulowski in PUN:INTRUDER. The original source was PUN:INTRUDER, I erroneously cited it as as Marvel Encyclopedia #5.
4/ The Castle family had planned that day to first visit Central Park, then catch a movie (PUN/CA:B&G 3-FB (24:1)-FB) before their trip to Washington (PUN@ 4 (2:1)-FB) for Frank to recieve his Presidential Freedom Award.

[Paul Bourcier]

This is an excellent resource, wolframbane -- one I'm sure will be very handy. Kudos!

You wrote:

With regards to the Maggia thugs, they are Bruno Costa, Luis Allegre, Byron Hannigan, Leon Kolsky and Matt Skinner. Although the number may vary from panel to panel, there has never been more than five depicted together. So despite Rocco Venturi claiming to have been there during the murders is improbable, as he would have been a sixth man out. However, he may have been present but not on-panel, perhaps he was nearby acting as a lookout. Therefore I would treat him as BTS in M/PRV 2 (14:6-15, 16:2-16:5, 16:8)-FB.

Some follow-up questions and comments...

Were the names of all the Maggia mobsters revealed in M/SA 1 (except for Leon's and Matt's first names)?

As you note, just because we never see more than five at any one time doesn't mean there weren't more. If Rocco weren't there, he'd have every reason to proclaim his innocence, as he was being hunted down for being one of the Castle family's killers. Yet he didn't deny being there. So yes, I'd agree that he was a sixth Maggia mobster there.

Are we sure of the identities of each mobster when he appears on panel, or is it possible that Rocco WAS on panel, just not identifiable?

Can we identify any of the three mobsters shown in PUN3 17 (6:5)-FB? Especially the one in the middle with the bald spot?

Any time any of the six are depicted, wouldn't that count as a BTS appearance for those who are not in panel? Moreover, wouldn't all six be BTS whenever we see the direct results of their actions, such as the bullets hitting the Castles?

[JephYork]

They'd only be bts when the bullets hit, if we *don't* see them on-panel elsewhere firing the bullets.

-Jeph!

[wolframbane]

Were the names of all the Maggia mobsters revealed in M/SA 1 (except for Leon's and Matt's first names)?

M/PRV 2 reveals Bruno Costa's first name of Bruno. M/SA 1 reveals the full names of Bruno Costa (and his brother Frank Costa), Luis Allegre and Byron Hannigan, and the last names of Kolsky and Skinner (the last two were also referred to by only their last names as recently as OHOTMU:M/K '05). Leon Kolsky and Matt Skinner received their first names in OHOTMU A to Z Vol 9: Punisher. Rocco Venturi apparently was first named in PUN3 17.

As you note, just because we never see more than five at any one time doesn't mean there weren't more. If Rocco weren't there, he'd have every reason to proclaim his innocence, as he was being hunted down for being one of the Castle family's killers. Yet he didn't deny being there. So yes, I'd agree that he was a sixth Maggia mobster there.

That is a good point, Rocco Venturi could have been there as a sixth, unseen Maggioso. In M/SA 1, when Frank took down this family's killers, he only referred to Bruno Costa, Allegre, Hannigan, Kolsky and Skinner. However he was only working with the files given to him by John Laviano in PUN:YO 4 for this information. And this info was not complete, as he late found out Hector Montoya's connection in PWJ 3. Venturi was probably one of the Maggiosos who killed his family, but Punisher only knew of the first five, and when he later found out about Venturi, hunted him down as well.

[wolframbane]

Can we identify any of the three mobsters shown in PUN3 17 (6:5)-FB? Especially the one in the middle with the bald spot?

Well, here is my handy dandy reference chart to identify the various men there that day.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.p ... 0ff7c5.jpg

For PUN3 17 (6:5)-FB
First man: Cannot see head, but from musculature I would say Bruno.
Second man: Long hair and a bald spot. Probably wearing a hairpiece to cover the bald spot in ref chart above. Probably Venturi.
Third man: With silhouette of hair, probably Skinner.

[wolframbane]

Are we sure of the identities of each mobster when he appears on panel

The problem is that the Maggiosos were often shown obscured, and it was difficult to determine which was which. Sometimes with even high quality art, the depictions change from artist to artist. And if all five thugs were shown, we could assume they were all Bruno, Skinner, Kolsky, Hannigan and Allegre, but with the introduction of Venturi, we can no longer be certain. I have re-reviewed the panels above and updated them with what i feel are the most probable maggiosos based upon available depictions and information. Many of them are only an estimated approximation and could be subject to change if anyone has any viable objections. In any given panels, i suppose any undepicted characters could be bts.