Lord Shingen bts in DD #111?

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Lord Shingen bts in DD #111?

Post by JephYork » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:12 pm

I've read that in DD #111, Silver Samurai's first appearance, there's a flashback where he references his father in a way that could put Lord Shingen bts there.

My understanding is: in the flashback, the Samurai breaks the Mandrill out of prison, and claims that this settles his father's debt to the Mandrill. Trouble is, from that description it's a bit debatable whether it's just a generic debt, and the Samurai was acting of his own volition -- which might not be a bts for Shingen -- or whether Mandrill specifically called in his debt with Shingen, who sent his son to break him out -- which would definitely be a bts.

Can someone please check the fb, and post the dialogue? Thanks!

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Re: Lord Shingen bts in DD #111?

Post by JephYork » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:46 am

I need this info in something of a hurry -- it's going into Shingen's chronology in Index v3 #1. Could someone please check the fb today?

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Re: Lord Shingen bts in DD #111?

Post by Russ Chappell » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:55 am

You have been misinformed. The only flashback in DD 111 is a Shanna flashback. Silver Samurai mentions nothing about his father or his debt, although Mandrill does.
Mandrill wrote:After the mission tonight, we'll consider your father's debt to me repaid.

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Re: Lord Shingen bts in DD #111?

Post by JephYork » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:31 am

Ah, so it's in main body of the story, not the fb. Thanks.

I think that's a borderline case, but I'd consider it a behind-the-scenes appearance for Shingen. Samurai's only there because Shingen incurred a debt to Mandrill.

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Re: Lord Shingen bts in DD #111?

Post by Russ Chappell » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:40 am

Jeph, to clarify:

Not only is there no flashback, there is no scene like you describe. Samurai does not break Mandrill out of prison. The "debt" quote occurs in Mandrill's hideout.

It is possible your scene occurs in some other book.

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Re: Lord Shingen bts in DD #111?

Post by JephYork » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:15 pm

I got the info from the Unofficial Handbook:
(Daredevil I#111 (fb) - BTS) - At some point Shingen came to owe the Mandrill a debt of honor.
(Daredevil I#111 (fb) - BTS) - The Silver Samurai freed the Mandrill from his prison cell to repay the debt Shingen owed him.
I guess they use "fb" to mean "before the issue began, these events happened behind the scenes." They couldn't have happened in a previous issue, because DD #111 is Silver Samurai's first appearance.

Still -- from your quote, Samurai is aiding Mandrill on some "mission" in DD #111 to repay his father's debt. Which means in all likelihood, Mandrill called in that debt. I still think this should be considered a BTS for Shingen.

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Re: Lord Shingen bts in DD #111?

Post by ShadZ » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:28 am

Just from reading Russ's description, I don't think this should be a bts for Lord Shingen. Mandrill says that Silver Samurai's help will discharge Lord Shingen's debt. That doesn't necessarily mean Lord Shingen sent Silver Samurai. It could also mean Silver Samurai came on his own volition to pay back his father's debt. Or it could be a coincidence -- Mandrill could have hired Silver Samurai not knowing he was Lord Shingen's son (and without SS knowing his father had a debt to Mandrill), but now that they do know, Mandrill has agreed to forgive the debt as part of his payment to SS...
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Re: Lord Shingen bts in DD #111?

Post by JephYork » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:09 pm

I hear you that it can be interpreted in a few different ways.

But even if the Samurai came of his own volition to discharge his father's debt -- even if Shingen didn't know Samurai was doing so -- the fact remains that Shingen's situation (being indebted to Mandrill) is affecting Samurai's actions. And I think that's enough to qualify as a behind-the-scenes appearance.

If Shingen were a perennial background character, indebted to Mandrill over the course of many issues, I don't think every single little mention of his debt would qualify him. But this is a one-time mention, never touched on again, occurring eight years before Shingen's first on-panel appearance. In that regard, I think it's notable.

-Jeph!

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