Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Punisher problem with HFH 8-9

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michel
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Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Punisher problem with HFH 8-9

Post by michel » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:22 pm

Not sure it's a mistake but I don't have access to the books right now, so I need help. The time is at the beginning of Heroes Reborn.

At the end of the PUN3 serie, the Punisher is left amnesiac. If I remember well, he's got his memory back in HFH 9. So his chronology shouldn't be changed and he appears next in the Spider-Hunt storyline.

PUNISHER II/FRANK CASTIGLIONE/"FRANK CASTLE"
PUN3 17
PUN3 18
HFH 8-FB
HFH 9-FB-BTS
HFH 8-BTS
HFH 9
S-M 89
PPTSS 255

KZ4 16-FB
KZ4 15

For Spider-Man, the Spider-Hunt storyline is before A3 1 and SENSM 28 :

SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER
PPTSS 254
SENSM 25
ASM 432
S-M 89
PPTSS 255

XM 36-BTS
XM 37
XM 38
SENSM 26
ASM 433
S-M 90
SENSM 26
SENSM 27-FB
PPTSS 256
X 77
SENSM 27-FB
SENSM 27
ASM 434-FB
ASM 434
A3 1
SENSM 28

S-M 91
PPTSS 257
PPTSS 258

Now, let's look at Luke Cage :

CAGE, LUKE/CARL LUCAS
HFH 7
SM/K:TD
SENSM 28
HFH 8
HFH 9

HFH 10

For him, HFH 8-9 is after SENSM 28, during the Identity Crisis storyline, while for the Punisher, it's before S-M 89, before the Spider-Hunt storyline. And Spider-Hunt continues in Identity Crisis. So there seems to be a problem.

I might add that for She-Hulk, HFH 8-9 happens in between pages of A3 1, that fits Cage's chronology.

So what do you think ? And could someone check first if the Punisher is amnesiac or not in S-M 89 and PPTSS 255 ?

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Re: Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Punisher problem with HFH 8-9

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:20 pm

I believe Luke Cage's chrnology is incorrect. HFH 11 occurs "right before" the segment of A3 1 in which Spider-Man appears. And Spidey appears in SENSM 28 after A3 1 (and Cap appears in SENSM 28 after A3 3). So HFH 11 needs to go before SENSM 28 in Cage's chronology. This will make his chronology consistent with Punisher's and Spidey's. HFH 12 and the first part of HFH 13 should occur as close on the heels of A3 3 as possible, since they read like they occur the same day as HFH 11 (but can't, since the world is remade by Morgan LeFey in A3 1-3 for a few days).

CAGE, LUKE
...
SM/K:TD
*SENSM 28 [move from here]
HFH 8
HFH 9
HFH 10
HFH 11
HFH 12
HFH 13
*SENSM 28 [move to here]
XFOR 80
...

While we're on the subject of SENSM 28, the MCP is missing the appearances of Iron Fist and White Tiger in this comic.

IRON FIST
...
HFH 13
*SENSM 28 [add]
XFOR 80

WHITE TIGER II
...
HFH 13
*SENSM 28 [add]
HFH 13 [add second segment as in other chronologies]
...
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michel
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Re: Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Punisher problem with HFH 8-9

Post by michel » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:47 pm

Fine for Luke Cage. And if
Paul Bourcier wrote:HFH 11 occurs "right before" the segment of A3 1 in which Spider-Man appears.
then for Sandman, HFH 10-11 must be moved before A3 1, and SENSM 26 too, to be consistent with Spider-Man's chronology

SANDMAN II/WILLIAM BAKER/"SYLVESTER MANN"/"FLINT MARKO"
M/TU2 3
M/TU2 4-FB
* SENSM 26 moved here
* HFH 10 moved here
* HFH 11 moved here
A3 1
A3 2
A3 3
* SENSM 26 moved from here
* HFH 10 moved from here
* HFH 11 moved from here
A3 4-FB
A3 4-BTS

Edit : Paul, just to be sure, you have the first part of A3 1 happening before S-M 89 ? That would give something like :

A3 1 part 1 She-Hulk
HFH 8-9 She-Hulk, Punisher gets his memory back
Spider-Hunt : SENSM 25 - ASM 432 - S-M 89 - PPTSS 255 Spider-Man, Punisher
XM 36-38 Spider-Man
SENSM 26 - ASM 433 - S-M 90 - SENSM 26 - PPTSS 256 - SENSM 27 - ASM 434 Spider-Man
HFH 10-11 Sandman
A3 1 part 2 She-Hulk, Sandman, Spider-Man

Can the gap in A3 1 be so huge ?

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Re: Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Punisher problem with HFH 8-9

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:59 pm

First, I wouldn't put A3 (1-6) before HFH 8-9. HFH 8-9 tie directly into QS 2-3, QS 7-FB and QS 4-FB. Look at Black Knight's chronology:
...
HFH 8
QS 7-FB
HFH 9-BTS
A3 1
...

Now look at the chronology of Quicksilver, who appears in A3 1 before She-Hulk does:
...
QS 2
QS 3
QS 7-FB
QS 4-FB
A3 1
...

So, She-Hulk's chronology needs to be changed:
...
A '99-FB
*A3 1 [delete]
HFH 8
HFH 9
A3 1
...

It looks like She-Hulk was the only character with a split listing for A3 1, and now that we've eliminated that, is there a need for a gap between portions of A3 1?

Second, we do have tight continuity here. I believe SENSM 25 ends on the same day as that HFH/QS crossover. ASM 432 and S-M 89 occur that night. PPTSS 255 occurs that night and the next day. Then comes HFH 10-11, followed closely by A3 1.

The MCP puts a bunch of other Spidey appearances between PPTSS 255 and A3 1. Given this, and considering that PPTSS 254 occurs "over a week" after ASM 431, we're going to have to ignore the reference to A3 1 occurring "a week or so" after ASM 431.
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michel
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Re: Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Punisher problem with HFH 8-9

Post by michel » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:59 pm

Fine, I don't see no more problems, thanks a lot Paul !

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Re: Spider-Man, Luke Cage and Punisher problem with HFH 8-9

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:21 pm

Just one more problem, not with the MCP, but with the Index. Spider-Man's MCP chronology is:
...
ASM 434
A3 1
SENSM 28
S-M 91
...

This agrees with Cap's MCP and Index chronologies, which place SENSM 28 after A3 3. However, Avengers Index #13 states that Spidey appears in A3 1 between SENSM 28 and S-M 91. Along with the Sandman and She-Hulk corrections, I gotta change that for the TPB...
Paul B.

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