Marvel Vault: Gambit, Champions

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

Moderators: Col_Fury, michel, Arthur, Somebody, StrayLamb

Locked
Leoparis
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 1442
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:32 am
Location: Paris
Contact:

Marvel Vault: Gambit, Champions

Post by Leoparis »

The early part shows Remy Lebeau spying on the Champions (Angel, Iceman, Ghost Rider, Black Widow, Hercules) fighting Rampage (Champions #5).
He meets a woman called Spat who hires him for a theft.
Later The Champions (minus Iceman) with Remy fight AIM and Modok under Spat's eyes.
Paul Bourcier
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 am
Location: Florida

Re: Marvel Vault: Gambit, Champions

Post by Paul Bourcier »

Anyone care to take a shot at character chronologies here?
Paul B.
metaldragon
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Marvel Vault: Gambit, Champions

Post by metaldragon »

The Champions fought AIM & MODOK in Iron Man Annual #7 alongside Iron Man. Is this a different encounter? Or is this set during that story?
"May the Light shine forever!"
metaldragon
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Marvel Vault: Gambit, Champions

Post by metaldragon »

I managed to find a copy of this. There are some problems. It looks like the fight from The Champions #6: Rampage is wearing his jet pack and Angel is wielding Hercules' mace but it can't be the same fight because Ghost Rider wasn't there (and Hercules didn't have a spiked ball-and-chain weapon). Ghost Rider was off in his own book during Champions #5-6 when the rest of the team encountered Rampage. They captured Rampage at the end of Champions #6 (he's shown unconscious with a brick wall collapsed on him).

At the beginning of Champions #7 Ghost Rider says: "I wasn't around when you and our other partners had it out with this Clarke fella, Angel." while they visited Clarke (stripped of his Rampage armour) in the hospital. Rampage is then rescued by Darkstar & the Gryphon and only has an exo-glove from his armour there, that he mentions Darkstar just slipped him, and they get away. Later, the Black Widow is kidnapped by the Titanium Man.

Rampage returns, in his full armour, at the beginning of Champions #8 with pictures of Black Widow's capture. He's given what he thinks is a communicator but when he presses the button it turns out to be a bomb. It explodes and Rampage is horribly injured and badly burned. They rush him to the hospital and that's where he stays until after the Champions break up (PPTSS 17).

I see only one solution. This story could take place during Champions #7 between pages 16 &17 (after Rampage's rescue by Darkstar & the Gryphon and before Black Widow's kidnapping). It's a stretch but it's possible that once he got his armour back he returned for a grudge match against the full team. The rest of the story with M.O.D.O.K. and A.I.M. takes place "tonight". This is fine because page 17 shows that it's nighttime. It's a squeeze but it appears that the events are:

The Champions #7- Morning: a small rocket flies through the window of the new Champions building. Iceman, Hercules & Black Widow are there to stop it. It appears to be early morning as the scenes with Bruskin are in shadow. At that same time, Angel and Johnny Blaze visit Rampage in the hospital (so whenever visiting hours begin). Angel has brought his lawyer Mr. Bale along. Rampage refuses his help and just after the lawyer leaves, Angel & Ghost Rider are attacked by The Gryphon and Darkstar who rescue Rampage after a fight.

Gambit and the Champions: From the Marvel Vault #1- Daytime: Rampage fights Angel, Black Widow, Ghost Rider, Hercules & Iceman as witnessed by Gambit. Angel is wearing his red & yellow costume (Champions 1-8) and wielding Hercules's mace. Gambit doesn't stay for the end of the fight but one assumes Rampage managed to escape. Gambit runs into Spat who asks him what he's up to and tells him to make himself presentable. He passes a van with M.O.D.O.K. and some A.I.M minions in it who are making plans to steal a scroll from Worthington "tonight".
Evening: The Worthington Foundation is holding a charity event to return an ancient scroll Warren found among his father's possessions after his death, to the middle eastern country it was stolen from. Spat knocks Warren unconscious, Remy scopes out the scroll, M.O.D.O.K. shows up with his A.I.M. minions to crash the party. Fight breaks out, M.O.D.O.K. possesses Hercules who attacks Black Widow & Ghost Rider, Remy decides to be a hero and saves the day by charging up the scroll and throwing it at M.O.D.O.K. Ghost Rider mentions Bobby is doing homework which is why he wasn't present.

The Champions #7- Night: Hercules & Iceman are searching the soon-to-be-dubbed Champions building to make sure it's secure for the Dedication Ceremony the next day. They nearly uncover a spy (Yuri Ivanovitch Petrovich aka "The Outcast") but a child who came looking for help distracts them. "Meanwhile" the Black Widow and Ivan have taken apart the rocket and discover who sent it. Black Widow spots Col. Buskin on a building across the street and swings over to speak with him. They are attacked and captured by the Titanium Man.

The Champions #8 begins the next morning (2 hours before the ceremony mentioned in Champions #7) with Rampage revealing that Black Widow was kidnapped and being tricked into blowing himself up. After this, Angel dons his new red, white & yellow costume in time for the ceremony.

This should then fit into their listings:

Angel, Black Widow, Ghost Rider, Hercules, Iceman
CHAMP 7 (pg. 1-16)
GAM&CHAMP 1 (or whatever the code will be)
CHAMP 7 (pg. 17-end)

MODOK
IM 75
GAM&CHAMP 1
A3 17-FB
MSM 5
IM@ 4
MSM 7

Anyone know where this would go for Gambit? He's old enough to grow a goatee and drive a motorcycle here.

While reading through this, I noticed that CRIMSON DYNAMO IV/YURI IVANOVITCH PETROVICH was also called as "The Outcast" and should probably be added as an AKA for him.
Last edited by metaldragon on Fri May 11, 2012 9:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"May the Light shine forever!"
Paul Bourcier
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 am
Location: Florida

Re: Marvel Vault: Gambit, Champions

Post by Paul Bourcier »

We also have to factor PWJ2 17-FB into this Rampage chronology, and that opens up a gap of at least a few days between pages 10 and 11 (the same break that metaldragon misidentified as pages 16-17 because he counted ad pages) of CHAMP 7.

CHAMP 7 (1-10)
Darkstar and Griffin rescue Clarke from the hospital.

PWJ2 17 (2)-FB
Clarke dons a new Rampage exo-skeleton and fights the Champions (now including Ghost Rider). Angel is in that original Champions costume.

G&C 1
Rampage's battle with the Champions continues, as observed by Gambit. Rampage escapes BTS.

PWJ2 17 (3)-FB
Rampage lives the good life and has yet another battle, this time with Ghost Rider in a mall.

CHAMP 7 (11-17)
Preparation for "tomorrow's" dedication ceremonies. Black Widow is captured.

CHAMP 8
The ceremonies occur. Rampage tricked into blowing himself up. The blowing scene is repeated in PWJ2 17 (4:1)-FB, although Rampage is misremembering the event as occurring outdoors instead of indoors. Angel changes his costume.

PWJ2 17 (4:2)-FB
A bandaged, paralyzed Clarke spends time in a wheelchair in a hospital.

PPTSS 18-FBs
The paralyzed, bandaged Clarke has Iceman take him from the hospital.

PPTSS 18-19
Clarke is still bandaged and paralyzed.

PWJ2 17 (4:3-4:4)-FB
Clarke heals and gets to work inventing again.

WM2 5-6
Rampage fights Wonder Man and Beast. PWJ2 17 (5:1)-FB is an rfb more or less to WM2 6 (2:1).

PWJ2 17 (5:2)-FB
Clarke tinkers.

IM3 19 (5:4)-FB
Parnell Jacobs finds the War Machine armor in the desert.

PWJ2 17 (5:3-5:4)-FB
Parnell takes the armor's helmet to Clarke and hands it to him.

IM3 19 (5:5)-FB
Clarke sets the helmet on a table.

IM3 19-20
Clarke appears here, with PWJ2 (6:1)-FB, showing Iron Man and Parnell, being more or less an rfb to page 19 of IM3 19. Sunset Bain fires Clarke.

PWJ2 17 (6:2-6:3)-FB
Bain yells at Clarke while he packs his things and leaves.

PWJ2 17 (7:2)-FB
Sometime while Tony Stark is head of SHIELD, Clarke kills a SHIELD agent. I assume this is new.

PWJ2 17 (7:3)-FB
At Clarke's trial, Statk testifies that Clarke is nuts.


So, for character chronoligies we have:

ANGEL III/WARREN WORTHINGTON III
...
CHAMP 7
*PWJ2 17 (2)-FB [add]
*G&C 1 [add]
CHAMP 8
...

BLACK WIDOW II, HERCULES & ICEMAN
...
CHAMP 6
*CHAMP 7 [delete]
*CHAMP 7 (1-10) [add]
*PWJ2 17 (2)-FB [add]
*G&C 1 [add]
*CHAMP 7 (11-17) [add]
CHAMP 8
...

GHOST RIDER III/JOHNNY BLAZE
...
CHAMP 7
*PWJ2 17 (2)-FB [add]
*G&C 1 [add]
*PWJ2 17 (3)-FB [add]
CHAMP 8
...

MADAME MENACE/SUNSET BAIN
...
IM3 20
*PWJ2 17 (6:2-6:3)-FB [add]
TASK 1
...

RAMPAGE/STUART CLARKE
CHAMP 5
CHAMP 6
CHAMP 7
*PWJ2 17 (2)-FB [add]
*G&C 1 [add]
*PWJ2 17 (3)-FB [add]
CHAMP 8
*PWJ2 17 (4:2)-FB [add]
*PPTSS 18-FB [add]
PPTSS 17
PPTSS 18
*PWJ2 17 (4:3-4:4)-FB [add]
WM2 5
WM2 6
WM2 17
WM2 18
WM2 20
WM2 21
*PWJ 17 (5:3-5:4)-FB [add]
IM3 19-FB
IM3 11
IM3 19
IM3 20
*PWJ2 17 (6:2-6:3)-FB [add]
*PWJ2 17 (7:2)-FB [add]
*PWJ2 17 (7:4)-FB-BTS [add]

WAR MACHINE II/PARNELL JACOBS
...
WARM2 1-FB
*IM3 19-FB [delete]
*IM3 19 (5:4)-FB [add]
*PWJ2 17 (5:3-5:4)-FB [add]
*IM3 19 (5:5)-FB [add]
{IM3 11}
...


And where in Iron Man's chronology should PWJ2 17 (7:4)-FB go??
Paul B.
metaldragon
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Marvel Vault: Gambit, Champions

Post by metaldragon »

Paul Bourcier wrote:We also have to factor PWJ2 17-FB into this Rampage chronology, and that opens up a gap of at least a few days between pages 10 and 11 (the same break that metaldragon misidentified as pages 16-17 because he counted ad pages) of CHAMP 7.
I didn't actually "count" anything. I just went by the page numbers on the bottom of the pages!
"May the Light shine forever!"
Paul Bourcier
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 am
Location: Florida

Re: Marvel Vault: Gambit, Champions

Post by Paul Bourcier »

Ah. Let's refer to story pages so we're "on the same page." :wink:
Paul B.
metaldragon
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Marvel Vault: Gambit, Champions

Post by metaldragon »

Paul Bourcier wrote:CHAMP 8
The ceremonies occur. Rampage tricked into blowing himself up. The blowing scene is repeated in PWJ2 17 (4:1)-FB, although Rampage is misremembering the event as occurring outdoors instead of indoors. Angel changes his costume.
Actually, you've got this the wrong way around. It actually goes:

CHAMP 8
Rampage tricked into blowing himself up. The blowing scene is repeated in PWJ2 17 (4:1)-FB, although Rampage is misremembering the event as occurring outdoors instead of indoors. Angel changes his costume. The ceremonies occur.
"May the Light shine forever!"
Paul Bourcier
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 am
Location: Florida

Re: Marvel Vault: Gambit, Champions

Post by Paul Bourcier »

I wasn't really intending to relate the events of the issue itself in chrono order. It makes no difference to the order of the comics and FBs outlined.
Paul B.
metaldragon
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 700
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Marvel Vault: Gambit, Champions

Post by metaldragon »

It does make a difference if the order of (the same) events in PWJ2 17 is different from CHAMP 8...
"May the Light shine forever!"
Locked