X-Men: Chaos War mistakes

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templedog1972
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X-Men: Chaos War mistakes

Post by templedog1972 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:17 pm

I do not post very often so I hope that I am posting this in the correct place.

I just finished reading the X-Men: Chaos War trade paperback and am thoroughly disgusted with the whole series. There are a number of errors in the dialogue that contradict X-Men continuity and Thunderbird’s history in particular.

On page two of the X-Men: Chaos War #1 after Thunderbird crawls out the ground his dialogue states that he recognizes Moira MacTaggart from video-coms with Xavier. This is an error because Moira did not meet the new X-Men until Uncanny X-Men #96, which is after Thunderbird died, and even then they thought she was initially only a housekeeper. Even if Xavier did have video conferences with Moria during the time (weeks or months) that the new X-Men were training it seems highly unlikely that Thunderbird would have been the only team member present.

The next mistake is when John says that he chose the code-name Thunderbird. This in incorrect, because in Giant-sized X-men #1 when Cyclops calls John by the code-name “Thunderbird”, John curtly corrects him and says that his name is “Proudstar”. To which Cyclops replies that Professor Xavier has given all the new X-Men code-names and that John’s code-name is now Thunderbird.

The next mistake occurs when Thunderbird asks Banshee to go and pick up Esme Cuckoo and two of Madrox’s dupes. Jamie Madrox then asks if Banshee can carry all three people? Sean replies that of course he can. This is a mistake because we see in Uncanny X-Men #95 after the strato-jet is destroyed and the X-Men are falling Banshee saves Thunderbird and tells Cyclops that he does not have enough lift to carry two grown men.

Another mistake is when Thunderbird refers to Banshee dying before Moira. This incorrect, because Moira died in X-Men (vol. 2) #108 from the Legacy virus and Banshee died years later in X-Men: Deadly Genesis #2 after being hit by the Blackbird jet.

The last mistake that I could see was when Banshee unleashes his sonic scream at full force against the carrion crow god. Thunderbird comments that he had heard stories about the powerful effects of Banshee’s sonic scream but had never seen it in action. This comment makes no sense because in Uncanny X-Men #94 it is stated that the new X-Men spent 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, week in and week out honing their powers and practicing as a team. In addition, in Uncanny X-Men #98 Cyclops comments to Jean that the New X-Men have been together for almost a year. So it stands to reason that the New X-Men must have been together at least for a few months between the encounter with Krakoa and the encounter with Count Neferia. Therefore it also stands to reason that during those weeks or months spent training together Thunderbird must have seen some of Banshee’s training sessions. Knowing Professor Xavier and his training methods I find it difficult to believe he would not push Banshee’s powers to the limit during some of those training sessions just in order to test them.

All in all I am just disgusted at the lack of research the writer did to make so many mistakes. Especially when the character that had the most mistakes was Thunderbird. This is a character that has maybe a dozen comic appearances in total, so it is not that difficult to get a decent handle on his history. Maybe it is my own fault for being such a fan of Thunderbird, because I know each of his appearances by memory. Trust me I have studied.

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Re: X-Men: Chaos War mistakes

Post by Midnighter » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:53 pm

templedog1972 wrote:All in all I am just disgusted at the lack of research the writer did to make so many mistakes. Especially when the character that had the most mistakes was Thunderbird. This is a character that has maybe a dozen comic appearances in total, so it is not that difficult to get a decent handle on his history. Maybe it is my own fault for being such a fan of Thunderbird, because I know each of his appearances by memory. Trust me I have studied.
The writer of The Chaos War mini was Chris Claremont, right? The creator of Thunderbird, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, writer of The X-Men since UX 98 to X-Men 1... It's not a question of lack of research (he wrote these stories!), but lack of memory, i think.

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Re: X-Men: Chaos War mistakes

Post by loki » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:50 pm

templedog1972 wrote:I do not post very often so I hope that I am posting this in the correct place.

I just finished reading the X-Men: Chaos War trade paperback and am thoroughly disgusted with the whole series. There are a number of errors in the dialogue that contradict X-Men continuity and Thunderbird’s history in particular.

On page two of the X-Men: Chaos War #1 after Thunderbird crawls out the ground his dialogue states that he recognizes Moira MacTaggart from video-coms with Xavier. This is an error because Moira did not meet the new X-Men until Uncanny X-Men #96, which is after Thunderbird died, and even then they thought she was initially only a housekeeper. Even if Xavier did have video conferences with Moria during the time (weeks or months) that the new X-Men were training it seems highly unlikely that Thunderbird would have been the only team member present.
While perhaps unlikely, this doesn't contradict known continuity, so it's not strictly an error. It seems that Thunderbird was, by chance, the one X-Man who saw Moira on a video-com prior to her coming to stay.
templedog1972 wrote:The next mistake is when John says that he chose the code-name Thunderbird. This in incorrect, because in Giant-sized X-men #1 when Cyclops calls John by the code-name “Thunderbird”, John curtly corrects him and says that his name is “Proudstar”. To which Cyclops replies that Professor Xavier has given all the new X-Men code-names and that John’s code-name is now Thunderbird.
While a mistake, I'd chalk this down to the memory cheating, especially after being dead for a long time.

Or maybe, before John died, Xavier changed John's memories to stop him complaining about his new codename. "Why are you complaining John? You chose it." :D
templedog1972 wrote:The next mistake occurs when Thunderbird asks Banshee to go and pick up Esme Cuckoo and two of Madrox’s dupes. Jamie Madrox then asks if Banshee can carry all three people? Sean replies that of course he can. This is a mistake because we see in Uncanny X-Men #95 after the strato-jet is destroyed and the X-Men are falling Banshee saves Thunderbird and tells Cyclops that he does not have enough lift to carry two grown men.
He didn't at the time, but times change. He practiced a lot in the Danger Room, plus Conscience's virus may have boosted his powers as well as restoring them. Plus, Esme is fairly light weight.
templedog1972 wrote:Another mistake is when Thunderbird refers to Banshee dying before Moira. This incorrect, because Moira died in X-Men (vol. 2) #108 from the Legacy virus and Banshee died years later in X-Men: Deadly Genesis #2 after being hit by the Blackbird jet.
So Thunderbird got the order of two events that happened after he died mixed up?
templedog1972 wrote:The last mistake that I could see was when Banshee unleashes his sonic scream at full force against the carrion crow god. Thunderbird comments that he had heard stories about the powerful effects of Banshee’s sonic scream but had never seen it in action. This comment makes no sense because in Uncanny X-Men #94 it is stated that the new X-Men spent 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, week in and week out honing their powers and practicing as a team. In addition, in Uncanny X-Men #98 Cyclops comments to Jean that the New X-Men have been together for almost a year. So it stands to reason that the New X-Men must have been together at least for a few months between the encounter with Krakoa and the encounter with Count Neferia. Therefore it also stands to reason that during those weeks or months spent training together Thunderbird must have seen some of Banshee’s training sessions. Knowing Professor Xavier and his training methods I find it difficult to believe he would not push Banshee’s powers to the limit during some of those training sessions just in order to test them.
While they certainly trained together, it's not certain that John ever saw Banshee really let rip.

The point I'm trying to make is, that while there are continuity glitches, they aren't so big that it's difficult to work round them.

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Re: X-Men: Chaos War mistakes

Post by templedog1972 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:57 am

Midnighter wrote:
templedog1972 wrote:All in all I am just disgusted at the lack of research the writer did to make so many mistakes. Especially when the character that had the most mistakes was Thunderbird. This is a character that has maybe a dozen comic appearances in total, so it is not that difficult to get a decent handle on his history. Maybe it is my own fault for being such a fan of Thunderbird, because I know each of his appearances by memory. Trust me I have studied.
The writer of The Chaos War mini was Chris Claremont, right? The creator of Thunderbird, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, writer of The X-Men since UX 98 to X-Men 1... It's not a question of lack of research (he wrote these stories!), but lack of memory, i think.
You are correct Midnighter, Chris Claremont did write Chaos War. That is just sad that he is the one that made the mistakes in the story.

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Re: X-Men: Chaos War mistakes

Post by templedog1972 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:05 am

loki wrote:
templedog1972 wrote:I do not post very often so I hope that I am posting this in the correct place.

I just finished reading the X-Men: Chaos War trade paperback and am thoroughly disgusted with the whole series. There are a number of errors in the dialogue that contradict X-Men continuity and Thunderbird’s history in particular.

On page two of the X-Men: Chaos War #1 after Thunderbird crawls out the ground his dialogue states that he recognizes Moira MacTaggart from video-coms with Xavier. This is an error because Moira did not meet the new X-Men until Uncanny X-Men #96, which is after Thunderbird died, and even then they thought she was initially only a housekeeper. Even if Xavier did have video conferences with Moria during the time (weeks or months) that the new X-Men were training it seems highly unlikely that Thunderbird would have been the only team member present.
While perhaps unlikely, this doesn't contradict known continuity, so it's not strictly an error. It seems that Thunderbird was, by chance, the one X-Man who saw Moira on a video-com prior to her coming to stay.
templedog1972 wrote:The next mistake is when John says that he chose the code-name Thunderbird. This in incorrect, because in Giant-sized X-men #1 when Cyclops calls John by the code-name “Thunderbird”, John curtly corrects him and says that his name is “Proudstar”. To which Cyclops replies that Professor Xavier has given all the new X-Men code-names and that John’s code-name is now Thunderbird.
While a mistake, I'd chalk this down to the memory cheating, especially after being dead for a long time.

Or maybe, before John died, Xavier changed John's memories to stop him complaining about his new codename. "Why are you complaining John? You chose it." :D
templedog1972 wrote:The next mistake occurs when Thunderbird asks Banshee to go and pick up Esme Cuckoo and two of Madrox’s dupes. Jamie Madrox then asks if Banshee can carry all three people? Sean replies that of course he can. This is a mistake because we see in Uncanny X-Men #95 after the strato-jet is destroyed and the X-Men are falling Banshee saves Thunderbird and tells Cyclops that he does not have enough lift to carry two grown men.
He didn't at the time, but times change. He practiced a lot in the Danger Room, plus Conscience's virus may have boosted his powers as well as restoring them. Plus, Esme is fairly light weight.
templedog1972 wrote:Another mistake is when Thunderbird refers to Banshee dying before Moira. This incorrect, because Moira died in X-Men (vol. 2) #108 from the Legacy virus and Banshee died years later in X-Men: Deadly Genesis #2 after being hit by the Blackbird jet.
So Thunderbird got the order of two events that happened after he died mixed up?
templedog1972 wrote:The last mistake that I could see was when Banshee unleashes his sonic scream at full force against the carrion crow god. Thunderbird comments that he had heard stories about the powerful effects of Banshee’s sonic scream but had never seen it in action. This comment makes no sense because in Uncanny X-Men #94 it is stated that the new X-Men spent 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, week in and week out honing their powers and practicing as a team. In addition, in Uncanny X-Men #98 Cyclops comments to Jean that the New X-Men have been together for almost a year. So it stands to reason that the New X-Men must have been together at least for a few months between the encounter with Krakoa and the encounter with Count Neferia. Therefore it also stands to reason that during those weeks or months spent training together Thunderbird must have seen some of Banshee’s training sessions. Knowing Professor Xavier and his training methods I find it difficult to believe he would not push Banshee’s powers to the limit during some of those training sessions just in order to test them.
While they certainly trained together, it's not certain that John ever saw Banshee really let rip.

The point I'm trying to make is, that while there are continuity glitches, they aren't so big that it's difficult to work round them.
Sadly for me the mistakes were so obvious that they ruined the whole story for me. Sorry :(

I do like your idea that Xavier could have altered John's memory to make him think that he chose his own code-name just to get John to quit complaining.

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