Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis (now expanded)

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Jason Doty
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

The stuff with Grey Gargoyle and the Hammer Invincible Iron Man (pg.1-2)
Iron Man leaves to fight him (p.3-6)
This is where I put the gap. for travel
Iron Man arrives in Paris (p.7-?

How do you want to set the Iron Man stuff up pre death of Bucky Cap. (look for the natural breaks and then let me know)
Frans
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

Jason Doty wrote:The stuff with Grey Gargoyle and the Hammer Invincible Iron Man (pg.1-2)
Iron Man leaves to fight him (p.3-6)
This is where I put the gap. for travel
Iron Man arrives in Paris (p.7-?

How do you want to set the Iron Man stuff up pre death of Bucky Cap. (look for the natural breaks and then let me know)
Natural gaps
Iron Man arrives in Paris and fights Grey Gargoyle, until he passes out #504 (p. 7-20): This could be where it is now or just before Fear Itself #3
Iron Man wakes up and fights him again, Detroit Steel, and loses the fight #504 (p. 21-22) and #505 (p.1-18): This would be during Fear Itself #3
He travels back (off panel) and when in USA he meets Pepper Potts and leaves again (appears next in Fear Itself #4) #505 (p.19-22): I would put this right before Fear Itself #4, so after Bucky's death
Jason Doty
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

O.K Frans, I filled out the area between no.3 and 4. I moved Ghost Rider forward in the chronology do to it intertwining with the Avengers vs. Green Hulk, happening before the Red Hulk vs. Thing fight. let me know what you think before I get into 4, full blast.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

Jason, after FI #2 we tread into heavy continuity issues. I think from the end of #2 to #4 is the most problematic :!:

FIRST MAJOR ISSUE

First the first pages of Thunderbolts #160 shows Luke Cage fighting nazi bots in NYC? Thunderbolts with Juggernaut (CHICAGO) has to appear before Fear Itself #3 (p. 6), where Juggernaut is in Missouri. Fear Itself The Home Front #3 has to happen before the FI #3 Juggernaut scene or after, indicating Salem is a town in Missouri. Afterwards Juggernaut encounters the Initiative in FI: Youth in Revolt in Las Vegas. In Fear Itself #4 Juggernaut already fights the X-Men. Pfff...

Hence, Thunderbolts indicates that nazi bots are in New York as well as in Washington. You can explain it as a small scouting party, but if not, it makes the New Avengers and Avengers issue more easy to place. Jason, what is your opinion?
Jason Doty
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

Hey Frans, I've spent most of the morning getting up to no.7. I'm gonna grab some breakfast and when I get back we'll address your issues. There is evidence to suggest their is an attack on New York that happens simultaneously with DC, it just starts after the attack in DC.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

Excellent! Have a nice breakfast, good and nutritious! :)
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

Okay, let's start with the beginning of #3.

SECRET AVENGERS, FEAR ITSELF #3
Secret Avengers #13 happens before (and not simultaneously with) Fear Itself #3, the Secret Avengers mention they are the first on the scene, and in FI #3 the dome is already hit.

SECRET AVENGERS, IRON MAN 2.0, FEAR ITSELF #3
Iron Man 2.0 issues happen after Secret Avengers #13, but preferabel before FI #3 (p. 1-4).

THUNDERBOLTS, FEARSOME FOUR
Fear Itself: Fearsome Four #1-4 happens between Thunderbolts #160 and #161 because of the appearance of Man-Thing in both series. Man-Thing disappears in Thunderbolts #160 and re-appears in Thunderbolts #161, making this an excellent gap to place the FI:Fearsome Four issues.

HERC, FEAR ITSELF
Shouldn't Herc #3 (p.4-20) be placed more closely to Herc #4? because it's one story with no gaps there, only the images of what's happening in the rest of the world. Vancouver, Bucky's arm ripped off and Green Hulk fighting the Avengers in the Amazon.

MORE WILL FOLLOW
Jason Doty
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

Alright if I move the Thunderbolts 160-165 up to prior, to the Fear Itself 3 with Juggernaut, that should alleviate the Juggernaut problem and we assume Cage fought some of the Nazi's before they reached the Red Hulk issues. That good?
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

Yes, my thoughts exactly, it would work. Under the assumption that Luke Cage was the first Avenger to encounter nazi bots in New York.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

O.k Frans, I made your corrections. Let me know what you think.

Juggernaut appears in Thunderbolts before, Fear Itself no.3 (p.6), Home Front happens after, just not right after (We can assume he enjoyed destroying parts of Missouri before engaging Speedball, then he fights the Initiative in Vegas, before fighting the X-Men.

I placed, The Fearless between the Thunderbolts issues for Man-Thing, I moved Herc because those are scenes of things that have happened recently.

I moved the Secret Avengers and Iron Man 2.0 per your suggestion. Let me know what's next.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

Yeah, I think Juggernaut is covered now. As I said FI #3 and #4 have issues. One of the biggest here below...

MAJOR UNSOLVABLE? CONTINUITY ISSUE
This is down to Wolverine appearances. As in one of my previous posts I told that in Fear Itself: Wolverine #3 Melita Garner hears from a bystander that Avengers Tower is levelled; Wolverine is then tied up to the HAMMER Helicarrier. BUT in New Avengers #14, Wolverine is seen fighting nazi bots with a.o. Mockingbird (scene where she takes control of a bot, and shoots at the others). Then Mockingbird witnesses the fall of Avengers Tower on panel. There's no way the FI: Wolverine series can fit into this scene.

My assumption to make it work, or to be able to place it
In Fear Itself Wolverine we don't have an actual panel scene where we see Avengers Tower fall. So we could presume that the bystander witnessed a building fall, but this was not Avengers Tower, but another one. It's not gold, but I think it could work.

What do you think?
Jason Doty
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

So the bystander thought Avengers Tower fell, but it wasn't, and then it actually fell, so FI: Wolverine in complete before Avengers fb's?
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

Yeah, I thinks so. See below.

WOLVERINE, DEADPOOL, UNCANNY X-FORCE

I thought to wrap up Fear Itself: Deadpool first, there are no clues to Fear Itself in the rest of his series.

Then Deadpool can appear in Uncanny X-Force. In UXF there is a scene with Absorbing Man and Titania having hammers (inclining it to happen after Iron Man 2.0 #6). Second clue is Chinese architecture, maybe implying that they are in China. It could be they have a China Town in Dubai, but I'm unsure if there one there :? Wolverine also appears in the UXF-issues, as well as Psyclocke and Archangel (FI #4). Therefore I'm inclined to move the issues up before the panel that shows Absorbing Man and Titania in Dubai.

Then as last have the Fear Itself: Wolverine series. In the end of this series he tells Melita Garner to catch up with his Avenger buddies. Leaving the way open to New Avengers and the rest of Fear Itself.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

Wait there also an image of Thing already being Angrir...

Can we place Fear Itself: Uncanny X-Force somewhere after Thing becoming Angrir and then thereafter Fear Itself: Wolverine?
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

My brain is really hurting, but the Avengers fb's are the characters remembering rather then happening in real time, leaving some wiggle room for errors in how the events exactly happened. Wolverine can't be on the Hellicarrier and fighting alongside Mockingbird when the Tower fell, so I vote she slightly misremembered two separate events.
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