Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis (now expanded)

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Frans
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

No, we could go ahead. The scenes with the Worthy in FI: Uncanny X-Force can be treated as flashbacks, and we could pretend (or maybe really) there are Chinese buildings in Dubai. There probably are. I don't think the panels with the Worthy in UXF are being given much thought, anyways.

FUN FACT!! EXTRA FUN FACT :evil:
There is a panel of The Worthy (Hulk, Thing, Titania, Absorbing Man) standing in New York, but we should neglect this as it is an art error. The four of them were never in the same place.
Frans
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

First FI: Deadpool (the rest of the series) after Thunderbolts.

Then FI: Uncanny X-Force after Fear Itself: FF #1.

The FI:Wolverine (the rest of the series) after Fear Itself #3 (p. 17-22) with the assumption of the spectator.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

O.K, Let me get this straight,

Fear Itself: Deadpool no.2-3, immediately after Thunderbolts 165

Fear Itself: Uncanny X- Force right after Fear Itself: FF, but before Fear Itself Spider-Man 3

I'm confused with how you want to break up Wolverine, between 2 and 3? with 3 happening after what...Where is the break you want in FI: Wolverine, where Wolverine's girl can use Avengers Tower, -Wolverine can fight with Mockingbird and she watch the tower fall, then Wolverine get on the Halicarrier and get captured, escape and join up with the other Avengers.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

I'm sorry I'm not quite clear.

If you would like to place Fear Itself: Uncanny X-Force after Fear Itself: Spider-Man. I presume that's fine too.

And...I don't want to break up Fear Itself: Wolverine. It's one continuous story. I want to place it right after Fear Itself: Spider-Man #3. The Avengers Tower fall in FI: Wolverine we can explain as posted before. The New Avengers appearances of Wolverine happen later.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

AVENGERS v4 #13
(p. 4-5) deals with Blitzkrieg USA and could be placed anywhere in Washington or New York. Let's put this right after the final pages of Fear Itself #2
(p. 13-15) and (p. 17-20) deal with Avengers-Asgard dinner and the press conference. This has to be put at the same line as Fear Itself #1 (p. 30-39)
p. 7-8) deals with Red Hulk eating eggs and should happen before Fear Itself #1. Maybe look into Paul's calendar
The rest of the pages are talking heads. The heads describe different eras in Avengers' history and therefore difficult to place. Some panels happen even after Fear Itself and some way way before
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

Jason Doty wrote:O.K Frans, I filled out the area between no.3 and 4. I moved Ghost Rider forward in the chronology do to it intertwining with the Avengers vs. Green Hulk, happening before the Red Hulk vs. Thing fight. let me know what you think before I get into 4, full blast.
The Ghost Rider issues cannot be placed before or during Fear Itself #3. Sin/Skadi is in Dayton, Ohio, while in FI #3 she is in Washington from beginning to end. Ghost Rider #1-3 happens after Fear Itself #3 and also after Avengers fighting Green Hulk (Avengers #15). Because of appearance Mephisto these issues happen also before Journey into Mystery #624

I think it's better to try and place the issues of Green Hulk before Red Hulk and Avengers Tower Fall. I tried it the other way round, but it looks odd, especially because of appearances Hawkeye. But also Iron Fist is causing issues in FI #4, where he is in China, while he fights with other New Avengers when Avengers Tower is falling.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

Further based on my previous post:
Avengers v4 #15 happens right after or simultaneously with Fear Itself #3 (p. 7-9)

Since Avengers and New Avengers are all flashbacks, we can place #15 before #14. Chronology wise this will flow better, believe me...

The issues that deal with the Fall of Avengers Tower need to be put after Fear Itself #4 (p. 3-4). This, because in Fear Itself #4 Iron Fist is in China, Hulk in Central America and Sin is still outside Manhattan, but very near.
Order IMO is:
HULK v1 #37 (p.1-12) Hawkeye, Mockingbird and Red Hulk in Avengers Tower seeing explosions and nazi bots
AVENGERS v4 #14-FB / HULK v1 #37 (p.13-20) / NEW AVENGERS v2 #14-FB (p. 10-12) and (p. 14-19) / NEW AVENGERS v2 #16-FB (p.3-12) Destruction Avengers Tower
HULK v1 #38 Red Hulk and Angrir fight more
NEW AVENGERS v2 #15-FB (p. 8-20) Avengers Mansion in lockdown, Squirrel Girl
NEW AVENGERS v2 #16-FB (p.14-17) Daredevil rescues Squirrel Girl
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

I think I just got what you were asking and adjusted, which makes the tower falling stuff happen farther down the line after the Avengers engage hulk, but with enough time for them to get back. Look now then hit me back.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

I just made the correction, which brings back Iron Fist from China, makes Hawkeye and co. back from Central America, and placed Mephisto in Ghost Rider prior to Journey Into Mystery and adjusted the flashbacks.

I also added a disclaimer to FI: Wolverine because of the continuity issue.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

Frans this morning, I added in the Fear Itself point 1 issues, moved the Avengers/New Avengers talking heads, because they happen after DD joins, which is 3 weeks after he saves Squirrel Girl and Cage's baby.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

Excellent, the next couple of days I don't have much time to look through the list, but now, I've got a couple.

Although you have been speeding up and are at the end of the series with 7.1, I'm still stuck at FI #3 :?

Could you place the FB of New Avengers before FI, maybe just after or before Avengers #13-FB. Maybe check with Paul Bourcier's calendar.
New Avengers v2 #14 (p. 3-8) At the table, when Mockingbird shows up alive
New Avengers v2 #15 (p. 2-7) Training in the garden with Squirrel Girl

AVENGERS v4 #16 should happen before Fear Itself #4, where Captain America is shown at Bucky's body
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

While Frans is still working through Fear Itself, I decided to add in some more stuff, starting with Wolverine v4. I'm pretty sure no.1-16 are one continuous story (Wolverine goes to hell, breaks his body from possession, seeks revenge, buries his kids, and then goes into seclusion, then returns.) I'm not thinking there wouldn't be any break in these do to the trauma for other adventures. Is there anywhere there has to be a break?
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans »

Okay, I've worked through some issues that are part of Fear Itself.

ALPHA FLIGHT
Alpha Flight v4 #1 has to happen before Fear Itself The Home Front v1 #3 (Attuma). In Herc v1 #4 Attuma is shown fighting in Vancouver, same as in Alpha Flight #1. At the end of Alpha Flight #1 Guardian "pops" Attuma to the East Coast of Canada in New Foundland, where FI Homefront #3 and #4 takes place, in St. John's. In Alpha Flight #2 the attack on St. John's has already taken place (they mention the victims). There is space between AF #1 and #2, so no problem there. Alpha Flight #3 follows directly on #2. Between AF #3 and #4 there is a gap. In Alpha Flight #4 there is mentioned that NY is fallen and the Serpent grows stronger, so this can best be placed after Fear Itself #5.

ALPHA FLIGHT v4 #1 to be placed after INVINCIBLE IRON MAN v1 #505 (p.19-22)
ALPHA FLIGHT v4 #2 (p. 3:3-20), followed directly by ALPHA FLIGHT v4 #3 to be placed after FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT v1 #5
ALPHA FLIGHT v4 #4 to be placed after or somewhere in FEAR ITSELF v1 #5
ALPHA FLIGHT v4 #2-FB (p. 1-3:2) has to be placed prior to FEAR ITSELF and ALPHA FLIGHT v1 #0.1, but after CHAOS WAR


FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT - AVENGERS ACADEMY
There's a small window after Fear Itself The Home Front v1 #2 (p. 1-3). These pages and Fear Itself The Home Front v1 #1 (p. 3-13) take place after the Raft breakout. Fear Itself The Home Front v1 #2 (p.4-14) and Fear Itself The Home Front v1 #3 (p. 1-5) take place during the Washington attack and also Absorbing Man in Dubai. We can think a gap then, because Speedball is in the Infinite Mansion. Fear Itself The Home Front v1 #3 (p. 6-14), #4 and #5 is one continuous story and deals with Juggernaut and Attuma. Fear Itself The Home Front v1 #6 starts "After the rise of Dark Asgard" as written at the start of the issue. Fear Itself The Home Front v1 #7 (p. 1-9) is a continuation of #6. Fear Itself The Home Front v1 #7 (p. 10-14) takes place later.

FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT v1 #1 (p. 3-13) followed by FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT v1 #2 (p. 1-3) to be placed after THUNDERBOLTS v1 #165
FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT v1 #2 (p. 4-14) followed by FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT v1 #3 (p. 1-5) to be placed after FEAR ITSELF v1 #3 (p.14-16)
FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT v1 #3 (p. 6-14) followed by FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT v1 #4 and FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT v1 #5 to be placed after AVENGERS ACADEMY v1 #15 (p.5-20)
FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT v1 #6 followed by FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT v1 #7 (p. 1-9) to be placed after FEAR ITSELF v1 #5 (p. 6-22)
FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT v1 #7 (p. 10-14) to be placed before AVENGERS ACADEMY v1 #20 and after FEAR ITSELF #7 (p. 1-30)


FEAR ITSELF THE DEEP
Fear Itself The Deep v1 #1 (p. 1-6) takes place two days before the rest of the series. I presume Attuma attacks New Atlantis before Vancouver, so this should be placed after the Attuma appearance in Fear Itself #2 and before Alpha Flight #1.

FEAR ITSELF THE DEEP v1 #1 (p. 1-6) to be placed somewhere around the end of FEAR ITSELF v1 #2

AVENGERS ACADEMY
Avengers Academy #15 is already placed. In Avengers Academy #16 Giant-Man teleports Absorbing Man and Titania to the North Pole. The students are still fighting in Washington. Between #17 (p. 1-5) and the rest of #17 there could be a gap, because #17 (p. 5) has to happen after Fear Itself The Home Front v1 #5, because Jocasta is telling her bodies are helping in New Foundland. Avenger Academy #18 and #19 follow directly on #17. At the end of #19 Absorbing Man and Titania are summoned by The Serpent. This happens in Fear Itself #6.

AVENGERS ACADEMY v1 #16 and AVENGERS ACADEMY v1 #17 (p. 1-5) to be placed after FEAR ITSELF THE HOME FRONT v1 #5
AVENGERS ACADEMY v1 #17 (p. 6-20) followed by AVENGERS ACADEMY v1 #18 followed by AVENGERS ACADEMY v1 #19 to be placed shortly before FEAR ITSELF v1 #6 (p. 9)


Jason, does this all work for you? I've got a splitting headache with all those continuity issues *brickwall* More to follow. It's easier from a character perspective, I can tell you that :)
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

I placed the Flashbacks for Avengers, because they impact the story fairly heavily, but I think we should wait on placing other flashbacks. The page and panel breaks would be super confusing. I'll go through your list and add the corrections. And yes Fear Itself also gives me a major headache.
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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty »

I added in your corrections. nice work Frans. Aside from the Alpha Flight fb, I think I got them all. After we finish off fear itself, we'll move backwards to the beginning of Utopia and then finish up this section of time by moving past fear itself. Great work.
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