Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis (now expanded)

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Michael » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:33 pm

See this thread for our discussion of the complexities of placing Doomwar:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5078

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:56 am

I've finished the Schism until the end of this post. There are some continuity glitches, which I will explain as we go along.

First the whole Prelude to Schism series. All issues intertwine heavily, I've got a page by page recap, but then we have 34 lines or something. I think it's best to put the series in two lines. Roughly it comes down to this:
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 / X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #2
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 / X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #4
As for the placing, Jason and I disagree, as can be read in this thread for our discussion viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6079 I still suggest between Schism #1 and #2 does make most sense, but we could pick up this discussion again.

Here are my findings:
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #1
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 / X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #2
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 / X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #4
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #2 (p. 1-18)

Sentinels appear worldwide. Wolverine tells Five Lights to go to their rooms and class is over for now. Cyclops discusses Sentinel-situation with Wolverine. Rogue, Pryde and other X-Men fight Sentinels worldwide. Quinten Quire appears in the control room on Utopia. Wolverine and Cyclops fall out in their decisionmaking what to do with Quire. Hellfire Club Children obtain their gadgets needed for their scam.
GENERATION HOPE v1 #10 (p. 1-4)
Rogue seen fighting Sentinels on tv (treat as flashback on tv). Five Lights in front of the tv.
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #2 (p. 19-22)
Wolverine drinking in bar. X-Men and some students walking over the red carpet towards the Museum of Mutant History. Hellfire Club Children arrive at the back of the museum.
GENERATION HOPE v1 #10 (p. 5-12/4)
X-Men in the museum before the press taking pictures. Oya and Transonic wander around the museum and talk to other students. All scenes until explosion.
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 1-8)
X-Men wander around the museum. Emma Frost gets a psychic backlash, while in contact with Cyclops. Explosion. Hellfire Club attacks X-Men. Namor and Colossus majorly hurt. Transonic tells Oya to run. Emma Frost not in diamond form.
There are major discrepancies between Schism #3 and Generation Hope #10.
In Schism Oya and Transonic stand with X-Men as explosion occurs, while in Generation Hope they wander around the museum during the same explosion.
Chronology Oya and Transonic for this part and the part above is explained as follows. First press and photos X-Men. Oya and Transonic wander through the museum. Oya and Transonic back with the X-Men. Then explosion.

GENERATION HOPE v1 #10 (p. 12/5-13)
Magneto, Emma Frost and Iceman seen fighting Hellfire Club. Assuming Colossus and Namor fell down alrady in Schism #3. Transonic runs away, telling Oya to run (for the second time). Emma Frost in diamond form.
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 9-13)
X-Men are taken down one by one. All of them lay on the floor with the Badoon brain slugs. Cyclops asks Oya for a report, Wolverine objects. Both make their way to the museum.
GENERATION HOPE v1 #10 (p. 14)
Oya hides from the Hellfire Club.
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 14-16)
Oya reports to Cyclops what has happened. She asks what she has to do. Cyclops answers "you do what you feel you have to". Wolverine disagrees strongly. Cyclops and Wolverine argue. Defeated X-Men are taken outside the museum.
GENERATION HOPE v1 #10 (page 15-16)
Oya considers Cyclops' and Wolverine's options to fight or flee. She decides to kill the Hellfire Club Soldiers.
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 17)
Oya kills the Hellfire Club Soldiers with her powers.
GENERATION HOPE v1 #10 (p. 17)
Oya stands among dead (and maybe wounded) Hellfire Club soldiers.
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 18-20)
Oya outside. She faints and Cyclops carries her away. The museum explodes totally. Wolverine and Cyclops have a big fallout.
GENERATION HOPE v1 #10 (p. 18-20)
While Wolverine and Cyclops have a heavy debate, the Five Lights blame Hope for not being there. They all feel for Oya, who asks if she need more killings to make.
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 21-22)
Cyclops and Wolverine witness a Sentinel forming. It wasn't a bomb after all that leveled the museum.
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #4 (p. 1-9)
Cyclops and Five Lights back on Utopia. Wolverine and X-club fight Sentinel in SF. They lose and Sentinel leaves SF and heads for Utopia. Cyclops leashes out at Sentinel from the shore of Utopia.
GENERATION HOPE v1 #11
The Sentinel comes for Utopia. Five Lights at the beach of Utopia. New X-Men and Five Lights decide to fight and appear behind Ccylops.
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #4 (p. 10-24)
New X-Men and Five Lights offer Cyclops help on fighting the Sentinel. Wolverine objects and sends them away. Wolverine and Cyclops fight each other viciously.
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #5 (p. 1-17)
The junior X-Men defeated the Sentinel. Wolverine walks back to Cyclops, after have spoken with Oya. He tells Cyclops he's leaving. Then there is a pause (because he then already leaves in a blackbird).
GENERATION HOPE v1 #12 (p. 1-12)
Zero is tricking Surge in eating a hamburger. Velocidad makes out with Pixie. Then the scene which also appears in X-Men Regenesis appears. So before that scene happens first.
The scene which is the same as in X-Men Regenesis will be treated here as a flashback. The chronology place will be the X-Men Regenesis issue.
X-MEN: REGENESIS v1 #1
All X-Men make a choice. They don't leave immediately. This is just the choice issue.
X-MEN LEGACY v1 #259
X-MEN LEGACY v1 #260

Here a lot of X-Men are still on Utopia, helping out Rogue to find Ariel. This has to happen before the last scenes where everybody leaves. Blindfold appears in #259 and she's seen in the blackbird leaving. Hellion had packed his suitcase in #260 to leave
already, but Rogue forces him to help Ariel. At the end of #260 Ariel uses a door to teleport her and Rogue to Westchester. Gambit is seen in the final pages of Schism #5, but that's not a problem, because not everyone has to leave at once.
GENERATION HOPE v1 #12 (p. 13-25)
Important scene is Oya leaving with a bag. And Cyclops trying to convince Kitty Pryde to stay for the kids of Generation Hope.
UNCANNY X-MEN v1 #544 (p. 1-16)
Iceman is the last to leave Cyclops. He gets in the blackbird and throws a snowball at Cyclops. The blackbird leaves. It's a bit odd, because in Schism #5 Iceman stands outside with Wolverine, but hey…
X-MEN: SCHISM v1 #5 (p. 18-23)
Wolverine, Iceman, Kitty Pryde and the X-students are seen in the blackbird leaving Utopia. And some of them in Westchester at the ruins of the school. Cyclops and the Extinction team look out of the window.
UNCANNY X-MEN v1 #544 (p. 17-21)
The final scenes when Cyclops talks to Emma Frost and stores all the old photos of the X-Men.

Please let me know what you all think of it, it's a rather cluttered chapter in X-Men's history .

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:02 am

Nice work Frans,

While I still don't agree with confining Prelude to Schism to an event that is not specifically stated and I don't believe that the Sentinel threat would warrant any evacuation of the island. (I think this is a bigger threat, one we haven't seen, that just happens to take place before Schism because of the title of the book.)

Your work is well thought through and I agree with everything else you proposed. I will update the list to reflect all of your changes as you presented them. I'm pretty sure the others didn't mind when prelude happened so long as it was prior to Cyclops and Wolverine's argument over the issue of the children.

One change though is that in Prelude, Cyclops did interview each character one after the other, so wouldn't there be that sort of order. Can we see the notes on that series.

Once again, good work. I'll make the changes.

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:38 am

Thanks Jason, I have a page by page recap of Prelude to Schism, but it's quite long. I could post it if you'd like.

As for the interviews in a one by one order, you're right, it's this:

X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #2 Magneto was the first to speak to Cyclops.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 Then Professor Xavier.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 Then Emma Frost and Cyclops thinking back at his life.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #4 And last Wolverine

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty » Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:09 pm

Since you've gone over these recently. Is there a set up in no.1 before he speaks to the individual members? It just grates my nerves to put no.2 before no.1.

Like
X-Men: Prelude to Schism v1 #1 (pg.1-?)
X-Men: Prelude to Schism v1 #2
X-Men: Prelude to Schism v1 #1 (pg.?-?)
X-Men: Prelude to Schism v1 #3
X-Men: Prelude to Schism v1 #4

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:20 pm

:lol: Okay I understand, here below the page by page recap with explanation.

X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 (p. 1-2) Cyclops stands alone. X-Men watching. Magneto walks towards Cyclops and stands with him. Wolverine watches.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #4 (p. 1-3) Magneto stands with Cyclops as Professor X watches. Wolverine thinks.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #2 (p. 1) Flashback to Magneto as a child playing with magnets.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #2 (p. 2-3/5) Magneto talks with Cyclops.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #2 (p. 3/6-6/3) Flashbacks to Magneto as child and his grandfather.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #2 (p. 6/4-7) Magneto talks to Cyclops some more.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #2 (p. 8-19/4) Flashbacks to Magneto's life from WWII to X-Men #1).
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #2 (p. 19/5-20) Magneto talks more with Cyclops. He leaves and as he walks back he says to Xavier "he's all yours".
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #4 (p. 4-7) Flashback to Wolverine Origin series.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #4 (p. 8) Magneto walks back but doesn't talk to X-Men yet.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #2 (p. 21-22) Xavier stands with Cyclops. Magneto talks to X-Men.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 (p. 3) Magneto back from Cyclops, talks to X-Men. Xaviers stands behind Cyclops. Doesn't talk to him yet.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 (p. 4-8) Flashback Cyclops and Xavier field in Barley.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 (p. 9-9/3) Professor X says to Cyclops if he wants to speak with him.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 (p. 9/4-12) Flashbacks to X-Men and Xavier.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 (p. 13-13/3) Cyclops and Xavier talk more.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 ( 13/4-14) Flashback to Jean Grey and Dark Phoenix.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 (p. 15-15/2) Xavier and Cyclops talk more.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 (p. 15/3-19/2) Flashbacks to various points in the past of Xavier and Cyclops.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #1 (p. 19/3-22) Cyclops and Xavier talk more. Xavier walks away back to X-Men. Doesn't speak to X-Men yet.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 1-4) Xavier walks away. Emma Frost goes to see Cyclops.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #4 (p. 9) Emma Frost goes and get Cyclops.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 5) Emma Frost stands in the doorway. Cyclops walks towards her.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 6-7) Flashback to Cyclops and his mother with a doctor about his eyes.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 8-8/5) Cyclops and Emma Frost look at each other.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 8/6-11) Flashback to the plane accident when his parents were abducted by the Shi'ar.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 12-13) Cyclops looks at the X-Men and realises they need him. Emma Frost is with him.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 14-17) Flashbacks to various key points in Cyclops' life.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 18-19) Emma Frost convinces him he's ready to face the X-men.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #4 (p. 10-11) Flashback to Wolverine fights in Canada in the ring.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #4 (p. 12) Emma Frost and Cyclops back with X-Men. Cyclops doesn't speak yet.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 20-21) Cyclops stands in the doorway with Emma Frost. He tells the X-Men they will make a stand. Cyclops gives the X-Men orders.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #4 (p. 13-17) Flashback to Wolverine in Weapon X project.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #4 (p. 18) Cyclops talks to X-Men they will make a stand.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #3 (p. 22) Cyclops sees nearly all X-Men leaving to fight the coming threat.
X-MEN: PRELUDE TO SCHISM v1 #4 (p. 19-22) Wolverine has a private chat with Cyclops, when everybody left or is busy.

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Emerald_616 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:02 pm

^WOW Frans!! Impressive

Off-topic: Is there a thread detailing the chronology from Divided We Stand through Utopia?

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:39 pm

Hey Frans,
Updated Your Schism read order with your breakdown to prelude.

Emerald, the Marvel Index to Uncanny X-Men takes us up to the point of Utopia.

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:10 am

Hi Jason and others, after some heavy traffic on this topic, it's a bit quiet. The whole Second Coming section could use a bit tweaking. Since this was my first arc to do a chronology on, I've groveled through my database and came up with this. Feel free to ask or to clarify.

X-MEN: SECOND COMING v1 #1
UNCANNY X-MEN v1 #523
X-FACTOR v1 #204
X-FACTOR v1 #205
X-FACTOR v1 #206

Only pictures of early Second Coming. Bolivar Trask is not seen further down the line.
NEW MUTANTS v3 #12
X-MEN LEGACY v1 #235
X-FORCE v3 #26
UNCANNY X-MEN v1 #524 (p. 1-10)
At page 11 Cyclops addresses Cannonball's team already formed, as seen in Hellbound. 
X-MEN: HELLBOUND v1 #1 (p. 1-13)
Cannonball gathers the team, until the scene where they go to the hangar to port for Limbo.
UNCANNY X-MEN v1 #524 (p.11-15)
Cyclops addresses Cannonball's team to get Magik back. Hope and Cable in infirmary. X-Club talks to Cyclops about Cameron Hodge's towers.
X-MEN: SECOND COMING-PREPARE v1 #1
UNCANNY X-MEN v1 #524 (p.16-22)
Nightcrawler's funeral.
X-MEN: HELLBOUND v1 #1 (p. 14-22)
Cannonball's team to Limbo.
NEW MUTANTS v3 #13
X-MEN: BLIND SCIENCE v1 #1
X-MEN LEGACY v1 #236
X-FORCE v3 #27
UNCANNY X-MEN v1 #525
X-MEN: HELLBOUND v1 #2
NEW MUTANTS v3 #14
X-MEN LEGACY v1 #237
X-FORCE v3 #28
X-MEN: SECOND COMING v1 #2 (p. 1-10)
Aftermath of the final battle, where the Limbo-team is not present.
X-MEN: HELLBOUND v1 #3
X-MEN: SECOND COMING v1 #2 (p. 11-32)

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:27 am

Hey Frans

I've updated your tightened chronology for second coming. I've taken a little break to let people digest what we have so far. I also think we can move up Serve and Protect but would like to hear others thoughts on where they think we should place it in relation to the other Marvel characters (Spider-Man, Thor, ect..)

I also saw a posting about Prelude at Comic Con that would suggest that this series is not tied to Schism. I'll try and find it and post it up.

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty » Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:36 am

This is a question from the CCI: Avengers vs. X-Men panel.
Another questioner asked about why "Prelude to Schism" was labeled as such, and got a frank answer from Alonso. "I want to come clean though, I think the labeling was a mistake," he said. "Perhaps we promised something more than what was delivered. These were much more character pieces, they were quieter. I don't think we're going to repeat that mistake and we'll be more prudent about how we label things in the future."

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Lucifer » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:17 am

I'm curious how to place X-Force 12-20. Issue 20 has Utopia in it. Also Rahne is returned to X-Force and X-23 loses an arm in this issue. In X-Necrosha 1 we see how a still unconsious Rahne is brought back to Utopia en we see X-23 still with just one arm. This makes it hard to create a gap between 20 and 21. Creating a hole before 20 is even harder because of the Messiah War, which starts before Utopia is created and because X-23 is dragged in to the Messiah War and returns exactly to where she was in issue 17. The story continues into 18-20. I hope this explanation is clear enough. Anyone know how to solve this?

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:45 pm

Jason Doty wrote:This is a question from the CCI: Avengers vs. X-Men panel.
Another questioner asked about why "Prelude to Schism" was labeled as such, and got a frank answer from Alonso. "I want to come clean though, I think the labeling was a mistake," he said. "Perhaps we promised something more than what was delivered. These were much more character pieces, they were quieter. I don't think we're going to repeat that mistake and we'll be more prudent about how we label things in the future."
Yeah, I've read it too. It's still hard to place anywhere else with the group of X-Men starring these series. Maybe we can take it out of Schism, but still it has to be placed somewhere around there. Magneto should have joined. He and Professor X should stay with the X-Men. Wolverine and Cyclops before Schism. I think it's fine where it is, now?

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:49 pm

Lucifer wrote:I'm curious how to place X-Force 12-20. Issue 20 has Utopia in it. Also Rahne is returned to X-Force and X-23 loses an arm in this issue. In X-Necrosha 1 we see how a still unconsious Rahne is brought back to Utopia en we see X-23 still with just one arm. This makes it hard to create a gap between 20 and 21. Creating a hole before 20 is even harder because of the Messiah War, which starts before Utopia is created and because X-23 is dragged in to the Messiah War and returns exactly to where she was in issue 17. The story continues into 18-20. I hope this explanation is clear enough. Anyone know how to solve this?
I remember the heavy continuity issues at that time, since X-Force 12-20 is one looong story. Also X-Force guest-starring in the Utopia crossover story line didn't help much, neither did the one-shot Dark X-Men The Confession. Eventually I believe it all was placed before Nation X and even before Utopia crossover, which isn't covered in this thread yet?
Last edited by Frans on Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:51 pm

Jason Doty wrote:I've taken a little break to let people digest what we have so far.
A well deserved pause :!:

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