Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis (now expanded)

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

Moderators: Paul Bourcier, Kevin W., Col_Fury, Arthur, JephYork, Somebody

Frans
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 1:18 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:50 pm

I've just read Fear Itself The Fearless #6, where there is a flashback to Fear Itself.
In Asgard Odin talks to Valkyrie about her not being Odin's shield maiden much longer. In a sort of crystal ball in Odin's hand an image of a slain Captain America (Barnes) is seen. Valkyrie tells him she will fight alongside Earth's heroes. They talk some more about the Fear. End of scene.

Valkyrie is seen at the end of Fear Itself #3 at the body of Captain America (Barnes). Valkyrie is also seen at the banquet in Fear Itself #1. And in Secret Avengers #14 with American troops. And in flashback at the body of Captain America (Barnes) in Secret Avengers #15. And then again in Fear Itself #7 the end battle.

I think it should be placed between Fear Itself #3 and Secret Avengers #14.

Any thoughts?

Emerald_616
Hero
Hero
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:29 am

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Emerald_616 » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:18 pm

Frans wrote:
Lucifer wrote:I'm curious how to place X-Force 12-20. Issue 20 has Utopia in it. Also Rahne is returned to X-Force and X-23 loses an arm in this issue. In X-Necrosha 1 we see how a still unconsious Rahne is brought back to Utopia en we see X-23 still with just one arm. This makes it hard to create a gap between 20 and 21. Creating a hole before 20 is even harder because of the Messiah War, which starts before Utopia is created and because X-23 is dragged in to the Messiah War and returns exactly to where she was in issue 17. The story continues into 18-20. I hope this explanation is clear enough. Anyone know how to solve this?
I remember the heavy continuity issues at that time, since X-Force 12-20 is one looong story. Also X-Force guest-starring in the Utopia crossover story line didn't help much, neither did the one-shot Dark X-Men The Confession. Eventually I believe it all was placed before Nation X and even before Utopia crossover, which isn't covered in this thread yet?
I think it happens before the Utopia crossover as well, and we can just take the location info before Scott and Dr. Nemesis' conversation as an error.
The only issue is whether or not Rahne and Elixir appear in the Utopia crossover. If they do, then that creates a problem because they are unconscious in the med-lab until Necrosha in the pages of X-Force.

I haven't read Utopia in a while because I think it's full of holes regarding who is conscious and on which team at the time, in addition to a lot of OOC moments.

Frans
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 1:18 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:45 pm

Hey, time to revive this topic a little :D

I've just read Venom: Circle of Four (#13,#13.1,#13.2,#13.3,#13.4,#14) again. Appearances of Ghost Rider (Alejandra), X-23, Venom (Flash Thompson), Red Hulk, Doc Strange, Daimon Hellstrom, Captain America, Beast, Hank Pym. I think that covers several series already, where to fit this in. Especially appearance of Hellstorm is a tricky one, as described in this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6246&p=36238&hilit=venom#p36238

Anyone has ideas where to place this? Because of Hellstorm flipping over to the dark side, it's inclined to happen before or during Fear Itself Fearless. But then before #7.

Jason Doty
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 5333
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:24 pm
Location: Milton, Florida

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:54 pm

For X-23, I think this takes place after Schism, during her ride across country between her series and her joining the Avengers Academy.

Frans
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 1:18 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:33 pm

Isn't X-23 contacted by Black Widow in the pre-ultimate issue of her series? It can also be placed before "Misadventures in Babysitting".

Have you seen the previews for Venom #23? It's very plausible that all "good" appearances of Hellstorm have to be before his turning over to the dark side in Fear Itself: the Fearless. I don't know what this implicates for our reading order. Only have the Venom issues of Circle of Four, the Fear Itself Fearless issues and X-23 series and Avengers Academy issues (with X-23). But it looks like we have to put a lot of issues before or during the Fear Itself Fearless series?

Frans
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 1:18 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans » Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:48 pm

Hey Jason and whoever wants to jump in (again). Also to remind we're not finished yet ooOO?!

I've just read Herc #1 and #2 and think they should happen during Fear Itself. Yeah, another change in Fear Itself reading order...

FEAR ITSELF: SIN'S PAST v1 #1
HERC v1 #1 (p.1-9)
FEAR ITSELF: THE HOME FRONT v1 #1/2 (ATLAS)
The first nine pages take place during the night. Hercules fights the Warhawks in a metro. He treats his wounds in the park and goes to sleep.

FEAR ITSELF v1 #1 (p. 8-13)
HERC v1 #1 (p.10-18)
FEAR ITSELF: THE WORTHY v1 #1 (SKADI)
The next nine pages take place during the next day. He meets the Greek restaurant owner and his new love interest.

FEAR ITSELF v1 #1 (p. 24-29)
HERC v1 #1 (p.19-22)
HERC v1 #2

JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY v1 #622 (p.1-21:4)
The last pages of issue 1 and whole of issue 2 take place during the evening and night, when Hercules fights Hobgoblin. Kingpin appears and Helena defects to Kyknos.

The order can be twisted a bit, because you could place it one or more spots down or up.
Herc #3 is part of Fear Itself and starts the morning after, or actually at the villains break out of the Raft at night. But we've all covered this already months ago.

Jason Doty
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 5333
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:24 pm
Location: Milton, Florida

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:22 pm

Hey Russ,
Is there anyway you can make Frans able to edit the first post to add in things. I've been very busy as of late and Frans seems eager to make adjustments. While I want to continue on it, I just don't have the time right now. Let me know if it is possible to let him edit it, for the time being. Thanks, Jason.

User avatar
Russ Chappell
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4315
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL
Contact:

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Russ Chappell » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:10 pm

Sorry. Only moderators can edit other people's posts.

Jason Doty
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 5333
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:24 pm
Location: Milton, Florida

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:45 pm

No problem. Frans I'll edit any updates you or anyone else makes sometime during each weekend and jump in when I have a little more free time.

Jason Doty
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 5333
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:24 pm
Location: Milton, Florida

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Jason Doty » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:03 pm

Frans, I updated and added in your Herc issues. Let me know where your going next.

Emerald_616
Hero
Hero
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:29 am

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Emerald_616 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:02 am

I know the final little details are still being filled in, but I'm beginning to piece together things between Regenesis and AvX, just to get a head start. I actually have an idea of where to place X-Factor for once!

Emerald_616
Hero
Hero
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:29 am

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Emerald_616 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:16 am

I think the numbering for "Big Time" as well as the stand-alone Amazing Spider-Man issue below Origin of the Species are all misnumbered by 10 issues.

Frans
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 1:18 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Frans » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:14 pm

Yeah, I see what you mean, although I don't read Spider-Man that much.

Jason, can you change this next weekend? Emerald, is the assumption below what you're implying?

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #638 (p.1-37) should be #648

and

BIG TIME

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #638 (p.38-39) should be #648
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #639 should be #649
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #640 should be #650
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #641 should be #651
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #642 should be #652
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #643 should be #653
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #644 should be #654
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #645 should be deleted
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #646 should be deleted
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #647 should be deleted
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #648 should be deleted
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #649 should be deleted
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #650 should be deleted
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN v1 #651 should be deleted

The story arc BIG TIME ends with #654. In Jason's list the next Amazing Spider-Man issue is #659, which is part of Spider-Island.

Does anyone with a lot of Spider-Man knowledge know where the in between issues can be placed? I presume they need a new place because one of them deals with the aftermath of the Death of Human Torch and they aren't part of Big Time.
#654.1 Flashpoint, Spider-Man and Venom
#655 and # 656 No One Dies, I think is aftermath of Big Time?
#657 deals with the aftermath of the Human Torch
#658 Spider-Man and Ghost Rider

Paul Bourcier
Director
Director
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 am
Location: Florida

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:50 pm

My post-Shadowland, pre-Fear Itself Spidey chronology looks like this. Feel free to use this as a starting point if you like...

Black Panther: Man Without Fear #516
Amazing Spider-Man #649-651
Amazing Spider-Man #652/2-653/2
Amazing Spider-Man #652-654
Amazing Spider-Man #654.1
Amazing Spider-Man #655-656
Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four v2 #4
X-Men v3 #7-10
Fantastic Four #584
Fantastic Four #588
Fantastic Four #588/2
Amazing Spider-Man #657
Avengers v5 #7
Avengers v5 #8-FB
Avengers v5 #8-12
Klaws of the Panther #3-4
Carnage #1-5
New Avengers v2 #8
Avengers Academy #11-12
New Avengers v2 #9-13
New Avengers v2 #14 (3-8)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man #661/2
Amazing Spider-Man #663/3
FF #1-2
Avengers v5 #12.1
Amazing Spider-Man Annual #38 (5-11)-FB
Incredible Hulks Annual #1 (4:1)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man Annual #38 (12:1)-FB
Incredible Hulks Annual #1 (4:2-6)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man Annual #38 (12:2-14/15:2)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man Annual #38 (4)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man Annual #38
Deadpool Annual #1-FB
Deadpool Annual #1
Incredible Hulks Annual #1
Venom v2 #2-5
Heroes for Hire v3 #6-8
Invincible Iron Man #501
Amazing Spider-Man #658-660
Amazing Spider-Man #658/2
Amazing Spider-Man #659/3-660/3
Amazing Spider-Man #661-662
Amazing Spider-Man #662/2
New Avengers v2 #15 (2-7)-FB
New Avengers Annual v2 #1
Avengers Annual v2 #1
Avengers v5 #13 (7-8)-FB
Paul B.

Emerald_616
Hero
Hero
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:29 am

Re: Hashing out X-Men post utopa-pre regenesis

Post by Emerald_616 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:49 am

Correct Frans! That's what I noticed, and I think it's just a small oversight since the list is so big.

Locked