Excalibur and Onslaught

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zeus
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Excalibur and Onslaught

Post by zeus » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:05 pm

Hey All,

I'm wondering if the chronology for the Excalibur issues around the time of Onslaught is a bit off. In Uncanny XMen #335, The X-Men are briefing Excalibur on Onslaught. Colossus wants to go stateside to help, and Moira mentions she asked NIghtcrawler to stay in England.

In Peter Wisdom's chronology (I haven't check other Excalibur members, but it shouldn't make a difference for this issue), that issue is listed between Excalibur #s 99 & 100. The Excalibur team was at war with Black Air at the time (issues 98-100), trying to get back a kidnapped Douglock.

That means the Excalibur team (at least Colossus & probably Nightcrawler) was willing to leave Douglock at the hands of Black Air, fly to America and help 2 super teams with Onslaught.

Considering Nightcrawler told Captain Britian he was on his own with London blowing up (courtesy of London's Hellfire Club) because Excalibur couldn't stop pursuing Douglock, I wouldn't think he'd be willing to give up the fight when the X-Men and Avengers were already on the case in America.

I think it would make more sense to put the Uncanny X-Men 335 scene after Excalibur 97, before the team realizes Douglock was missing at the beginning of issue 98. Douglock is missing in the Excalibur team shot in Uncanny 335, so it all lines up.

What do you all think?

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Re: Excalibur and Onslaught

Post by Starman » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:56 am

Excalibur 100 is a part of the Onslaught crossover if I'm not misremembering. Some of the X-Men members have gone to visit Moira to get the Xavier Protocols in order to figure out how to stop Onslaught. How much time passes between Uncanny X-Men 335 and Excalibur 100? Is it plausible that Excalibur 98 and 99 is between? I do not have time to look in the issue right now, but maybe some other board member does. (Excuse the possible spelling and grammar errors in this message. I'm, for the moment, a bit sleep deprived.)
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Re: Excalibur and Onslaught

Post by zeus » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:10 pm

#98 doesn't have any time indicators that I see, but there is a crescent moon when Excalibur is beginning their first strike against Black Air. With #99 starting "in the middle of the night" either the attack on Black Air takes all day, or a couple of hours.

#99 starts "in the middle of the night", and seems to follow #98 immediately, although there's no text to confirm it. #99 has Excalibur planning/prepping their next move against Black Air. It ends the next morning with the team heading out to their plane for the big fight in London, which is #100.


When the X-Men land at Muir Island during #100, there's no mention of how much time has passed since thier conversation in Uncanny #335. In fact, it reads a lot smoother if you don't know there was a conversation in #335.

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Re: Excalibur and Onslaught

Post by JephYork » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:07 pm

In Excalibur #99, Onslaught contacts Miss Steed of the London Hellfire Club -- telling her to prepare, as he was about to launch his master plan.

Excalibur #100 occurs during Onslaught's attack on NYC.

So -- yes -- the early parts of the Onslaught crossover have to occur between Excalibur #99-100.

The UXM #335 conversation is problematic no matter WHERE you place it -- since in that conversation, Excalibur learns that Prof. X is Onslaught -- then they're surprised and devastated by that very same revelation in Excalibur #100.

-Jeph!

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Re: Excalibur and Onslaught

Post by zeus » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:30 pm

What Onslaught says in #99 is "Soon, now, there shall be a gathering." Since London's Black Queen never interacted with any of Onslaught's other pawns, it almost certainly alludes to longer range plans Onslaught had for the world beyond Manhattan.

I agree that Uncanny 355 is a headache because of how #100 is written, but I think character interactions make more sense with 355 happening before Excalibur goes out to save Douglock from Black Air.

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Re: Excalibur and Onslaught

Post by JephYork » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:55 pm

it almost certainly alludes to longer range plans Onslaught had for the world beyond Manhattan.
That's kind of a stretch. And almost certainly not what the writer had in mind.

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Re: Excalibur and Onslaught

Post by zeus » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:18 pm

We've got two options with this.

1) Onslaught had plans further reaching than his initial confrontation in Manhattan, and the Black Queen was a part of those plans.

2) Excalibur said "Douglock can wait. Let's go help the Avengers and X-Men (I don't think the Fantastic Four was involved yet) with Onslaught IN AMERICA."


If we pick option 2, we have to ask why Onslaught didn't bring in London's Black Queen into the Manhattan confrontation, if that's what he was referring to. It's not that he didn't have enough time to get his pawns in place. When the heroes made their stand, it wasn't a suprise; so why no Black Queen?

We also have to assume that the team was willing to put rescuing Douglock from Black Air on the back burner and travel to America. They told Captain Britain (a member of their own team) he was going to have to deal with London blowing up on his own, because they couldn't take their eye off the ball rescuing Douglock from Black Air.

Choosing option 1 means a bad guy had plans we didn't know about. Choosing option 2 means inconsistent characterization.

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Re: Excalibur and Onslaught

Post by JephYork » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:50 pm

As you yourself pointed out -- COLOSSUS wanted to go help the X-Men. Not "all of Excalibur."

Colossus just joined Excalibur a few issues before. And before that he was an X-Man for years. I can easily see him wanting to go aid his best friends ever, instead of rescuing some alien thing he just met.

And again: the Excalibur cameo in UXM #335 *already doesn't make sense*, because it conflicts with how Excalibur found out about Onslaught's identity in Excal #100. I don't think it should be relied upon as a placement clue in any context.

-Jeph!

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