Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

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Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

Post by lettsmonster » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:35 pm

Another instance of three characters interacting around an event, with chronologies placed before and after the event at the same time. CM3 1 needs to be moved in one chronology or another. Captain America guest stars in CM3 1. In the Captain Marvel II chronology, this issue takes place before Q54 and the STARBLAST event. In the CA chronology, CM3 1 takes place after Q60. Thus, Captain America appears before the Starblast event in one chronology and after the Starblast event in another chronology.

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Re: Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

Post by Russ Chappell » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:43 pm

lettsmonster,

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5517

Thanks.

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Re: Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

Post by lettsmonster » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:01 pm

I understand your point for two characters, but when you have two characters interacting with a third character, that third chronology has to work with the first two. That is why I threw Quasar in there. Captain America and Captain Marvel both interact with Quasar at around the same time. But CM3 1 does not mesh with the Quasar appearances. CA and CM both appear together on the same panel in CM3 1, thus tying them together chronologically. However, in CM chronology, CA and CM meet and then CM goes to STARBLAST 1 with Quasar. In CA chronology, CM3 1 occurs well after Quasar book itself is done in Q 60. In this chronology, CM can't head out to the Starbrand miniseries because it is long over. Sorry, not a simple Steel Turnip/Red Cabbage story

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Re: Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

Post by Russ Chappell » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:38 pm

lettsmonster wrote:I understand your point for two characters,
I don't think you do understand my point. Here's the pertinent part:
Russ Chappell wrote:But we still want you to go to the books, when alerting us to a potential error, rather than simply reading the chronologies, and assuming there's an error.

So we're going to ask for your help.

When alerting us to a potential error, please include a statement telling us, among the books mentioned in your post, which ones you have, and which ones you don't have.
Forget about the chronologies for a moment. I just need to know what books have you checked?
lettsmonster wrote:but when you have two characters interacting with a third character, that third chronology has to work with the first two. That is why I threw Quasar in there.
But...you didn't throw Quasar in there. Your original post says "three characters," but the only characters you mentioned were Captain America and Captain Marvel.

In any case, what I'm asking from you is irrelevant to the number of characters. It doesn't matter how many characters are involved.

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Re: Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

Post by lettsmonster » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:13 pm

I have all the books I listed. I am trying to read the appearances of Captain America in chronological order using your lists. When I got to CM3 1, I had already finished reading the entire run of Quasar 1-60, because all of the Captain America appearances in the books had already occurred. Just out of curiousity, I went to look at at the Captain Marvel chronology to see what happened to her after she met with Captain America. Her chronology there brought me back to pre-Quasar 54! This is where I bring in Quasar because it does matter how two characters interact with him. If Quasar was not involved with both CA and CM, I would agree with you. But they revolve around him. Sorry, just how I see it. Thanks for your time

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Re: Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:41 am

So what you're implying is, is that Captain America and Captain Marvel appear in the same scenes in CM3 1, and that there's not a gap in CM3 1 that could explain the discrepancy in the different chronologies? Meaning, there's something that needs to be fixed.

Or, does CM3 1 span a period of time, Captain Marvel appears in all parts of CM3 1, and Cpatain America appears in only one part of CM3 1? Meaning, only Captain Marvel's chronology needs to be fixed.

Or, does CM3 1 span a period of time, Captain Marvel appears in one part and Captain America appears in another part? Meaning, nothing needs to be fixed.

This is why we ask for people to check the comics before saying "there's an error." I'm not sure which of the three above possibilities this is yet. Right now, all I know is there may be an error... somewhere. If there is, we need to know which kind of error it is.

I probably won't have a chance to dig out CM3 1 until the weekend to look for myself. BUT, I don't have any of the Quasar issues in question, so I don't know if I could solve this riddle by myself.

Any chance you could look through CM3 1 and tell us if there's a gap, who appears in which parts, and give us a possible solution to work from?
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Re: Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

Post by DonCampbell » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:48 pm

Col_Fury wrote:Any chance you could look through CM3 1 and tell us if there's a gap, who appears in which parts, and give us a possible solution to work from?
I've taken a look through my copy of Captain Marvel Vol. 2 #2 (which the Project calls CM3 1) and there is no gap of any significant length in the story. It begins one evening with Captain Marvel saving two students on the ESU campus from an attack by two costumed racists. She sticks around until the police have taken them into custody and then flies to her hotel room where she finds FBI Special Agent Derrek Freeman waiting for her. He asks for her help in dealing with recent racially-motivated attacks and gives her a file on the Sons of the Serpent. After reading the file, Monica then goes directly to the newly-rebuilt Avengers Mansion to hear what Captain America has to say about the Sons. The next day, Monica goes back to the ESU campus where she becomes involved in two separate confrontations with the Sons of the Serpent and Skinhead, the first occurring in the morning and the second at a 1 PM rally.

That's the whole story. As you can see, there are no gaps that could be used to resolve any discrepancy.

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Re: Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:47 pm

Thanks!

The Captain America Index and the Avengers Index both place this comic after CA 424 for Captain America (also, a quick check tells me CM3 1 & CA 424 were published the same month). Assuming the Index is correct, it looks like this should be moved in Captain Marvel's chronology.

Is there any reason this wouldn't work for her:

CAPTAIN MARVEL II/MONICA RAMBEAU
...
Q 42
*CM3 1 (move from here)
STARBLAST 1
Q 54
STARBLAST 2
Q 55
STARBLAST 3
Q 56
STARBLAST 4
Q 57
*CM3 1 (move to here)
CM4 2-FB
See Photon II

Something to do with the Starblast crossover, maybe?
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Re: Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

Post by Michael » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:37 pm

DonCampbell wrote:
Col_Fury wrote:Any chance you could look through CM3 1 and tell us if there's a gap, who appears in which parts, and give us a possible solution to work from?
I've taken a look through my copy of Captain Marvel Vol. 2 #2 (which the Project calls CM3 1) and there is no gap of any significant length in the story. It begins one evening with Captain Marvel saving two students on the ESU campus from an attack by two costumed racists. She sticks around until the police have taken them into custody and then flies to her hotel room where she finds FBI Special Agent Derrek Freeman waiting for her. He asks for her help in dealing with recent racially-motivated attacks and gives her a file on the Sons of the Serpent. After reading the file, Monica then goes directly to the newly-rebuilt Avengers Mansion to hear what Captain America has to say about the Sons. The next day, Monica goes back to the ESU campus where she becomes involved in two separate confrontations with the Sons of the Serpent and Skinhead, the first occurring in the morning and the second at a 1 PM rally.
Don Campbell
Hold on a second- does it say why Avengers Mansion is "newly-rebuilt"? If it's linked to a specific incident, that could help determine placement.
Fury, the Starblast crossover is where Monica gets her original powers back. If Monica doesn't have her original powers, then this has to take place before Starblast. (If Monica DOES have her original powers, then things get tricky, since the reason why Gruenwald gave Monica her powers back in Starblast is because the writers kept forgetting which powers she had.)

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Re: Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

Post by lettsmonster » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:46 pm

In CM 3 1, Monica still has not had her powers restored to her. This happens in STARBLAST 4, where the Stranger, using the power of the Starbrand, returns Monica's transformative powers to her. I don't think we can move CM 3 1 to after Q 57 because of this.

I agree with Don Campbell that there are no gaps in CM3 1 that could be used to resolve any discrepancy. Without any gaps, Captain America and Captain Marvel become linked in the larger timeline of the Marvel Universe. Daron, can you direct me to the Captain America and Avengers indexes that you mentioned that placed CM3 1 after CA 424? I am not familiar with them. Because I think this issue could be resolved by moving CM3 1 in Captain America's chronology to sometime before Q58. It is just very difficult because these two, CM and CA, are tied so closely to Quasar at this time.

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Re: Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:52 am

That's enough for me to say that Captain Marvel's chronology is correct and Captain America's needs to be changed. Thanks, guys!

How's this look:

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVEN "GRANT" ROGERS
...
AWC 102
DHAWK 37
*CM3 1 (move to here)
Q 58
Q 60
WIW 26
WIW 27
WIW 28
A 370-FB
A 370
A 371
TS 4
CA/NF:BT
CA 422
CA 424
*CM3 1 (move from here)
CA:DW-FB
...

As for the Index: They were a comic series published by Marvel that were later collected in books. You can get the collections through any book store or comic shop. Here's a link to Amazon that shows what they look like:

Buy me!

There's eight so far (Amazing Spider-Man, Avengers, Captain America, Ghost Rider, Iron Man, Punisher, Thor and Uncanny X-Men), with the ninth (Wolverine) scheduled to come out in May 2013.
-Daron Jensen

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Re: Captain Marvel Captain America Quasar 1994

Post by lettsmonster » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:43 pm

That move looks good to me! Thanks

And thanks for pointing me toward the indexes

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