DOCTOR DOOM

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

Moderators: Col_Fury, michel, Arthur, Somebody, StrayLamb

Jason Doty
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 9619
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:24 pm
Location: Milton, Florida

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by Jason Doty »

Thanks, I must be a bit tired.
User avatar
Col_Fury
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7754
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: on a Helicarrier, above Illinois
Contact:

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by Col_Fury »

No problem! :)
-Daron Jensen
JephYork
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by JephYork »

Image

-Jeph!
User avatar
Col_Fury
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7754
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: on a Helicarrier, above Illinois
Contact:

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by Col_Fury »

Hey Jeph, any thoughts on how soon Necrosha happens after Utopia?
-Daron Jensen
JephYork
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by JephYork »

Well, it has to happen after they build the Atlantean column under the island -- UXM #520, I think -- but that's about all I know.

EDIT: actually, hold on. I'm absolutely certain that one X-Force issue has Cyclops yell "everyone evacuate to the Atlantean column!" But now that I think about it, Magneto tells Cyclops about the column in UXM #520 -- and then immediately leaves to go sit on top of a mountain and bring Shadowcat's space-bullet home. Upon completing that task, he falls into a coma. And he doesn't awaken until midway through "Second Coming."

But we see Magneto alive and kicking in "Necrosha," don't we? Which is absolutely before Second Coming. So Necrosha has to occur before Cyclops learned about the column. Uggghhhh.

Okay, so long story short I have no idea. Maybe Cyclops means the Atlantean *settlement* which set up below Utopia just after DR:L:X-Men.

We see Emma with the Void-sliver in her head at some early point in the story, but is that consistent through the entire thing? Can we use that as a clue?

-Jeph!
User avatar
Col_Fury
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7754
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: on a Helicarrier, above Illinois
Contact:

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by Col_Fury »

Uncanny #520 was published the same month as X-Force #23 and X-Factor #201.

Am I thinking of a different X-Force story that has to happen shortly after Utopia?

-edit-

Ugh. Maybe it's a good thing I brought this up…
-Daron Jensen
JephYork
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by JephYork »

I edited my post while you were replying. (edit: oh, looks like you saw.)

X-Force #12 had to be split in half to accomodate the founding of Utopia, and the "Messiah War" storyline -- originally published and intended to occur before Utopia's founding -- had to be shifted to afterwards. Is that what you're thinking of?

-Jeph!
User avatar
Col_Fury
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7754
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: on a Helicarrier, above Illinois
Contact:

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by Col_Fury »

Does the end of X-Force #12 lead straight into Necrosha? Or is there a break somewhere?

Messiah War goes through X-Force #12-16 and Necrosha starts in X-Force with #21. I remember something about time travel and an X-Force story ending exactly where/when it started…
-Daron Jensen
JephYork
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by JephYork »

Actually, there's a fairly continuous train of action in X-Force from #12-25. At the end of X-Force #13, they're yanked into the future for "Messiah War." In #17, they return to the exact instant they left, and X-23 is promptly captured.

X-23's arm is cut off in #17-20, but she's rescued. In #21 (or the Necrosha one-shot, I forget), X-Force brings her back to Utopia, where Dr. Nemesis re-implants her old arm's metal claws into her still-regrowing new arm. (XFOR3 #21-25, of course, are the "Necrosha" storyline.) So unless she was held captive for a very very long time, then all these issues take place fairly quickly after one another.

And in one of these XFOR3 issues, I'm fairly sure we see Emma with the Void sliver in her head. If that's consistent across ALL her appearances in "Necrosha" (and it probably ISN'T), then we could use it as a clue, and place the entire arc -- XFOR3 #12-25, "Messiah War" AND "Necrosha" -- into an (invented) gap in UXM #515, between Magneto's arrival and the Predator X attack.

There are other considerations in his timeframe -- the Cuckoos fall into a brief coma circa UXM #519, Beast is present for Diamond Lil's funeral (she died during "Necrosha"), etc etc. At this late hour I can't really recall all the clues I noticed. (And some of them, like the column, may need to be discarded.)

But anyway -- I guess because of Magneto and his coma, it's got to be before UXM #520. So where are some gaps between UXM #515-520?

-Jeph!
User avatar
Col_Fury
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7754
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: on a Helicarrier, above Illinois
Contact:

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by Col_Fury »

OK, so I am thinking about the right thing. Great! and Rats!

All right then, how soon after Utopia does the rest of X-Force #12 have to happen? During the gap in Uncanny #515 you mentioned? And how soon after Utopia is Uncanny #515?

-edit-

Yes, I realize that the Utopia crossover was in Uncanny #513-514.
-Daron Jensen
Frans
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 1:18 pm
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by Frans »

Have you guys seen the previous discussion on this in the "Utopia to Regenesis" thread? It seems like you've missed it. Some info there could be relevant for this discussion. I even think a placement was discussed, but this can be changed of course.

UNCANNY X-FORCE v1 #1 has recap pages of the last X-Force run (edited by Marvel). In there the order is Messiah Complex --> X-Force 1-11 --> Utopia --> Red Hulk vs X-Force --> X-Force 12-13 --> Messiah War --> X-Force 17-20 --> Necrosha --> Second Coming.

Personally I don't think the order is correct. As far as X-Force is concerned Utopia should be moved further down the line. Preferrably after X-Force 17-20, but that's partly explained in the Utopia to Regenesis thread.
JephYork
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by JephYork »

Have you guys seen the previous discussion on this in the "Utopia to Regenesis" thread? It seems like you've missed it.
Personally, I'm deliberately avoiding that thread. From what I've seen there are quite a few suspect conclusions in there, and I think we're better off examining the books with a fresh eye.

Plus, we already dealt with the X-Force/Utopia problem a few years ago. We created a gap in X-Force #12 and inserted the crossover there.
As far as X-Force is concerned Utopia should be moved further down the line. Preferrably after X-Force 17-20
Utopia can't occur after X-Force #20. Why? because X-23 is missing an arm in #20, which doesn't grow back until after X-Force *returns to Utopia* in #21. And yet, X-23 appears in the Utopia crossover with two good arms.
All right then, how soon after Utopia does the rest of X-Force #12 have to happen? During the gap in Uncanny #515 you mentioned? And how soon after Utopia is Uncanny #515?
Sorry, Colonel, but I have absolutely no idea right now.

-Jeph!
Paul Bourcier
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 am
Location: Florida

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by Paul Bourcier »

Jeph wrote:
So where are some gaps between UXM #515-520?
Jeph, I placed the gap for Necrosha between UX 517 and 518 and rationalized it this way. In UX 517, Scott is desperate to retain an effective psychic because the Cuckoos are out of commission following the departure of the Phoenix Force. So he plans to stage “a psychic rescue” in Emma’s mind “first thing tomorrow morning.” In UX 518, we see Scott working with Xavier to enter Emma's mind and extract the Void sliver. One gets the impression that UX 518 is the day after UX 517, but this can't be. UX 518 has to happen after Necrosha, during which we see the Cuckoos in action. My theory is that very shortly after UX 517, the Cuckoos recovered and Scott delayed Emma's psychic rescue because he had regained effective psychics. (Cold, I know.) Granted, the Cuckoos are shown lying in Utopia's med lab in UX 518, but perhaps this is unrelated to the Phoenix-caused coma.
Paul B.
JephYork
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:10 pm
Location: Boston

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by JephYork »

Wait, so you placed the gap DURING the Cuckoos' coma? That's ... not my first choice for a solution.

When do they come out of their coma, as far as UXM is concerned?
UX 518 has to happen after Necrosha
Why?

-Jeph!
Paul Bourcier
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 am
Location: Florida

Re: DOCTOR DOOM

Post by Paul Bourcier »

The Void sliver is still in Emma's head in X-NECROSHA #1 and thus throughout the crossover, in which she's always seen in her diamond form to contain the sliver. The Void sliver is removed in UX 518-519. Magneto's present on Utopia during Necrosha, so that means Necrosha needs to occur after UX 516, or at least the bulk of it (through 18:4). The end of UX 516 leads right into UX 517, and it is there that the Cuckoos go into their coma.

So how about a gap between 18:4 and 18:5 of UX 516? This would require a postponement of Scalphunter's attack on Utopia, but is that plausible?
Paul B.
Locked