WAR MACHINE

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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WAR MACHINE

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:50 pm

War Machine’s chronology currently ends shortly before Siege. Picking up from there and adding in appearances based on existing chronologies we already have from the Index (like Captain America, Thor, etc) we end up with this:

WAR MACHINE/JAMES RUPERT RHODES

WARM2 12
[IM5 21]
[IM5 22]
[IM5 23]
[IM5 24]
[DOOMWAR 5]
[DOOMWAR 6]
[H2 607]
[H2 608]
[H2 611]
[IM5 25]
[A4 1]
[MK7 10]
[H2 614]
[IM5 26]
[IM5 27]
[IM5 28]
[IM5 29]
[IM5 32]
[IM5 33]
[A4 8]
[A4 9]
[A4 10]
[A4 11]
[A4 12]
[SECA 8]
[SECA 9]
[SECA 10]
[IM 500.1] (before Iron Man 2.0)
[IM2.0 1]
[IM2.0 2]
[IM2.0 3]
[IM2.0 4] (before Fear Itself)
[SECA 13] (Fear Itself)
[IM2.0 5]
[IM2.0 6]
[IM2.0 7] (Fear Itself)
[A4 18]
[FI:FEARLESS 1]
[FI:FEARLESS 10]
[FI:FEARLESS 11]
[IM2.0 7.1] (after Fear Itself)
[IM2.0 8]
[IM2.0 9]
[IM2.0 10]
[IM2.0 11]
[IM2.0 12]
[IM 512] (“nineteen days” after Fear Itself)
[IM 513]
[IM 514]
[IM 515]
[IM 517]
[IM 518]
[IM 519]
[IM 520]
[IM 521] (“six months” after IM 520)
[IM 522]
[IM 523]
[IM 524]
[IM 525]
[IM 527]
[AVX 1]
[NA2 24-FB]
[AVX 2 (1-21)]
[SECA 26 (1-8&9:3)]
[AVX 2 (22)]
[SECA 26 (8&9:4-8&9:5)]
[AVX 4]
[SECA 26 (10-20)]
[SECA 27]
[SECA 28]
[AVX 5]
[W&X 12]
[AASS 6] (after Avengers vs. X-Men)
[AASS 8]

Here are the rest of War Machine’s appearances that I can find:

Secret Avengers #1-4 (July-October 2010)
-Captain America’s chronology says flashbacks in #1 happen before Moon Knight #10, and #5 happens after Moon Knight #10. Where does #1-4 go?

Avengers v4 #12.1 (June 2011)
-Before Fear Itself

Secret Avengers #12.1 (June 2011)
-Before Fear Itself, but before or after Iron Man #500.1?

Secret Avengers #17 (November 2011)
-After Fear Itself, but before Iron Man #512, between Iron Man #520-521 or after Iron Man #527?

(Red) Hulk #42-43 (December 2011)
-What happens here? I haven’t read it yet, but I know it's at least after Fear Itself.

X-Men v2 #20-23 (January-March 2012)
-War Machine & Storm’s X-Men almost cause, then avert an international incident. Sentinels are on the black market. Before or after Schism?

Secret Avengers #20-21 (February-March 2012)
-Before Avengers vs. X-Men, and at a glance I'd say after Iron Man #527.

Thoughts?
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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Midnighter » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:14 am

Col_Fury wrote:(Red) Hulk #42-43 (December 2011)
-What happens here? I haven’t read it yet, but I know it's at least after Fear Itself.
Secret Avengers try to stop the unautorized mission of Red Hulk in Middle East. I can't remember any reference that could help to place in Secret Avengers chronology.
Col_Fury wrote:X-Men v2 #20-23 (January-March 2012)
-War Machine & Storm’s X-Men almost cause, then avert an international incident. Sentinels are on the black market. Before or after Schism?
After Schism, it's the first mission of the "Utopia's Patrol Team" that Cyclops assign to Storm in X-Men: Regenesis.

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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:47 pm

Midnighter wrote:Secret Avengers try to stop the unauthorized mission of Red Hulk in Middle East. I can't remember any reference that could help to place in Secret Avengers chronology.
Thanks!

I'm hoping to get caught up on reading Red Hulk over the weekend, so I'll keep an eye out for how long after Fear Itself #39-41 happens, and how long #42-46 happens after #39-41.
Midnighter wrote:After Schism, it's the first mission of the "Utopia's Patrol Team" that Cyclops assign to Storm in X-Men: Regenesis.
Awesome. Thanks!
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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:54 pm

Daron, the reference to "nineteen days" after Fear Itself is in IM 514, not IM 512. IM 512 begins "five days" after Fear Itself. Are you putting a gap in IM 512 (perhaps between pages 5 and 6) for Fear Itself: The Fearless and Iron Man 2.0 #8-12 to occur? Or should these comics occur between IM 513 and 514?

I think you're right to place IM 521-527 closely after IM 520. That "six months" reference in IM 521 just can't hold up. We're going to have to "pull a Cable" here.

Why do you place AASS 6-8 after AVX? AVASS 1-8 comprise one story arc, and in AASS 1, the rebuilt Avengers Tower is unveiled. The tower appears in AVX. Also, I'm under the impression that the Avengers felt they could call on the Hulk during AVX because they already established him to be an ally now in AASS 1-8. If I recall correctly, some Avengers were surprised that Hulk was working with the team in AASS. That would make sense if AVX hadn't already happened.
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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:05 pm

Here are my suggestions for War Machine's appearances between Fear Itself and AVX. Most appearances, except IM and AASS, are in publication order as no other clues apear to suggest a different placement (at least not that I could find).

IM 514-527 (best to get this done as quickly as possible, despite the "six months" reference)
SECA 17 (Stark is BTS here, so I have this after IM 527)
HULK 42-43
SECA 20-21
X3 20-23 (volume 3, yes?)
AASS 6
AASS 8

Then comes AVX, and I have the following detailed chronology for War Machine here:

A4 26 (1-7)
NA2 24 (5-17)-FB
A4 28 (3-4)-FB
W&X 9
SECA 26 (1:1-8/9:3)
AVX 2 (22)
SECA 26 (8/9:4-8/9:5)
AVX 4 (1-3)
SECA 26 (10/11:2-13:2)
A4 26 (9-10)
SECA 26 (13:3-20)
SECA 27
SECA 28
A4 26 (11-20)
A4 27
AVX 5 (11-12)
AVX 5 (13:4-18:3)
A4 29 (1-7:3)
W&X 12 (3:4-3:5) ~ A4 29 (8:1-8:3)
A4 29 (8:4-9/10)
W&X 12 (4-15)
A4 29 (14:3-20:6)
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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:42 pm

A few tweaks:

DOOMWAR 6-FB should be added between DOOMWAR 5 and 6
IM5 32/2 should be added between IM5 32 and 33
IM5 33/2 should be added after IM5 33
IM2.0 7-FB should be added between IM2.0 5 and 6

Also, I'm not seeing Rhodey in IM 500.1.

A few more appearances:

Iron Man: Legacy #1 (June 2010)
-Stark consults Rhodey

Shadowland: Moon Knight #3 (Dec 2010)
-War Machine appears with Steve Rogers and Beast; placement dictated by timing of Shadowland crossover
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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:37 pm

More suggestions:

[A4 1]
SECA 1
SECA 2
SECA 3
SECA 4
(before the Secret Avengers appearances in the next two entries)
[MK7 10]
[H2 614]
[IM5 26]
[IM5 27]
[IM5 28]
[IM5 29]
[IM5 32]
[IM5 33]
SLAND:MK 3
A4 12.1
(before Barnes leaves the Avengers, which I believe is prior to A4 7)
[A4 8]
[A4 9]
[A4 10]
[A4 11]
[A4 12]
[SECA 8]
[SECA 9]
[SECA 10]
SECA 12.1
...
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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Michael » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:24 pm

Paul Bourcier wrote: A few more appearances:

Iron Man: Legacy #1 (June 2010)
-Stark consults Rhodey
Iron Man Legacy 1 takes place sometime before the Radioactive Man's appearances in New Thunderbolts.
If we're including continuity inserts, Rhodey also appears in Iron Man Legacy 8-11, which take place sometime before Iron Man 199.

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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:04 pm

Thanks!
Paul Bourcier wrote:X3 20-23 (volume 3, yes?)
What's volume 2, then? Unless you're counting Uncanny as volume 1…
Paul Bourcier wrote:AASS 1-8 comprise one story arc, and in AASS 1, the rebuilt Avengers Tower is unveiled. The tower appears in AVX. Also, I'm under the impression that the Avengers felt they could call on the Hulk during AVX because they already established him to be an ally now in AASS 1-8. If I recall correctly, some Avengers were surprised that Hulk was working with the team in AASS. That would make sense if AVX hadn't already happened.
I remember an interview where Bendis said that AASS 1-8 took place after AVX. That'll teach me!
Paul Bourcier wrote:[IM5 33]
SLAND:MK 3
A4 12.1 (before Barnes leaves the Avengers, which I believe is prior to A4 7)
[A4 8]
Do we *HAVE TO* take A4 12.1 out of order? If Barnes is with the Avengers here, and he leaves later, why can't he just be visiting or something here?
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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Chris McCarver » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:27 pm

Col_Fury wrote:Thanks!
Paul Bourcier wrote:X3 20-23 (volume 3, yes?)
What's volume 2, then? Unless you're counting Uncanny as volume 1…
Paul Bourcier wrote:AASS 1-8 comprise one story arc, and in AASS 1, the rebuilt Avengers Tower is unveiled. The tower appears in AVX. Also, I'm under the impression that the Avengers felt they could call on the Hulk during AVX because they already established him to be an ally now in AASS 1-8. If I recall correctly, some Avengers were surprised that Hulk was working with the team in AASS. That would make sense if AVX hadn't already happened.
I remember an interview where Bendis said that AASS 1-8 took place after AVX. That'll teach me!
Paul Bourcier wrote:[IM5 33]
SLAND:MK 3
A4 12.1 (before Barnes leaves the Avengers, which I believe is prior to A4 7)
[A4 8]
Do we *HAVE TO* take A4 12.1 out of order? If Barnes is with the Avengers here, and he leaves later, why can't he just be visiting or something here?
FWIW, over on the Utopia-to-Regenesis thread, A4 12.1's placed almost just before Fear Itself:

[...]
DAKEN 20
A4 12.1
F.F. 1 (21 - 23)
F.F. 2
[...]

...and that maintains A4 12.1's publication/chronology order (unless the chronology on the other thread needs a tweak).
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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:40 pm

Should A4 12.1 happen before SECA 12.1? They were published the same month.
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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Chris McCarver » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:58 am

Col_Fury wrote:Should A4 12.1 happen before SECA 12.1? They were published the same month.
Just read both of those and didn't come up with any details that would've in and of themselves ordered the two books. I was going to check to see if Rhodey was sporting his Iron Man 2.0 armor in A4 12.1 but he only appears in one panel and pretty far in the background to discern much detail (whatever suit he's wearing in A4 12.1 doesn't appear to have the two vertical lines down the faceplate over the left eyepiece and still appears to have the gunnery conveyors on the shoulders, but Marvel's new MDCU reader doesn't let me zoom in [or at least I haven't figured out how to do it] for much detail). I've got a print copy of the issue, but it's boxed with the rest and Lord knows where.

All of the Secret Avengers appear in A4 12.1 apart from Black Widow and Sharon Carter (could their absences hold a clue?), and Steve Rogers is in his not-Cap uniform in both issues.

If it's for sure that Rhodey's in his old armor in A4 12.1 (he's in the new suit in SECA 12.1) and it's not an art error, that would clinch A4 12.1 as preceding SECA 12.1 (and IM2.0 1, for that matter).
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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:55 pm

Col_Fury wrote:
What's volume 2, then? Unless you're counting Uncanny as volume 1…
Oh, yeah. And we're calling that UX all the way back to issue #1. D'oh!

Col_Fury wrote:
Do we *HAVE TO* take A4 12.1 out of order? If Barnes is with the Avengers here, and he leaves later, why can't he just be visiting or something here?
Yes, that may be doable. The Cap Index does not include A4 7-12 or A4 12.1 in the list of his appearances prior to CA 606. In CA 606-610, word gets out about Barnes's previous work as Winter Soldier. In A4 7-12, Barnes is conspicuously absent from the Avengers, and this could be attributed to rumors circulating about him from the CA 606-610 arc. Barnes, however, could then make an appearance with the team in A4 12.1 as he's still officially a member. After that, CA 611 could get underway. In that issue, the press hound Hawkeye and Mockingbird about Barnes's status as an Avenger. Later that issue (after Captain America Corps #1-5 takes place during that issue), Barnes turns himself over to authorities and it would be difficult to place A4 12.1 after this point.

Granted, there shouldn't be much time between CA 610 and 611, so A4 7-12.1 would need to occur within a few days at most. A4 7-12 take two days and A4 12.1 would add another day. Given that you have Rhodey in SECA 8-10 after A4 12, then SECA 8-10 (and by extension the immediately preceding SECA 6-7, not to mention Klaws of the Panther #1-4, which I think occurs around the time of SECA 6-7) would probably have to occur after CA 611 for Cap.
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Re: WAR MACHINE

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:48 am

All right. Taking everything into account, here's where we're sitting with War Machine:

WAR MACHINE/JAMES RUPERT RHODES

WARM2 12
[IM5 21]
[IM5 22]
[IM5 23]
[IM5 24]
[DOOMWAR 5] (after IM5 24 so Tony Stark can recover)
[DOOMWAR 6-FB]
[DOOMWAR 6]
[H2 607] (after Doomwar because of Doom's brain damage)
[H2 608]
[H2 611] (before Siege)
[IM5 25] (Siege aftermath)
[A4 1]
[SECA 1]
[SECA 2]
[SECA 3]
[SECA 4]
[MK7 10]
[H2 614]
[IM5 26]
[IM5 27]
[IM5 28]
[IM5 29]
[IM5 32]
[IM5 32/2]
[IM5 33]
[IM5 33/2]
[MK8 3] (Shadowland tie-in)
[A4 8]
[A4 9]
[A4 10]
[A4 11]
[A4 12]
[A4 12.1] (Barnes still with Avengers, pre-Fear Itself)
[SECA 8]
[SECA 9]
[SECA 10] (War Machine in old armor)
[IM2.0 1]
[IM2.0 2]
[IM2.0 3]
[IM2.0 4] (War Machine gets new armor)
[SECA 12.1] (War Machine in new armor)
[SECA 13] (Fear Itself)
[IM2.0 5]
[IM2.0 7-FB]
[IM2.0 6]
[IM2.0 7] (Fear Itself)
[A4 18] (Fear Itself aftermath)
[IM 512]
[IM 513]
[FI:FEARLESS 1]
[FI:FEARLESS 10]
[FI:FEARLESS 11]
[IM2.0 7.1]
[IM2.0 8]
[IM2.0 9]
[IM2.0 10]
[IM2.0 11]
[IM2.0 12]
[IM 514]
[IM 515]
[IM 517]
[IM 518]
[IM 519]
[IM 520]
[IM 521]
[IM 522]
[IM 523]
[IM 524]
[IM 525]
[IM 527]
[SECA 17] (Iron Man behind the scenes, so after IM 527)
[H4 42]
[H4 43]
[SECA 20]
[SECA 21]
[X2 20] (after Schism)
[X2 21]
[X2 22]
[X2 23]
[AASS 6]
[AASS 8] (before AVX because of Avengers Tower)
[AVX 1]
[A4 26 (1-7)]
[NA2 24-FB]
[A4 28-FB]
[W&X 9]
[SECA 26 (1-8&9:3)]
[AVX 2]
[SECA 26 (8&9:4-8&9:5)]
[AVX 4]
[SECA 26 (10-13:2)]
[A4 26 (9-10)]
[SECA 26 (13:3-20)]
[SECA 27]
[SECA 28]
[A4 26 (11-20)]
[A4 27]
[AVX 5]
[A4 29 (1-7:3)]
[W&X 12 (3:4-3:5)] ~ [A4 29 (8:1-8:3)]
[A4 29 (8:4-9/10)]
[W&X 12 (4-15)]
[A4 29 (14:3-20)]

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