DOCTOR STRANGE

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:42 pm

DD3 11 is part of the Omega Effect crossover between DD3, PUN10 10 & AVENGSM 6.

DD3 12 is Matt’s date with Kirsten McDuffie (the Assistant DA) and ends with Spider-Man, disguised as a Black Spectre agent, “attacking” Matt.

DD3 13-FB picks up the day after DD3 12. Daredevil “battles” the New Avengers (Spider-Man, Wolverine, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Mockingbird), who are disguised as Black Spectre and Hydra agents. After the “fight,” Daredevil is teleported to Latveria. “16 hours” later in DD3 13, Foggy finds Jack Murdock’s bones in Matt’s office.

DD3 14 picks up 17-18 hours after DD3 13-FB, so an hour or two after DD3 13. DD3 1-6 is referenced as “several weeks ago.” Daredevil gets his radar sense taken away. Doom is not in Latveria.

DD3 15 Daredevil is rescued by the Avengers. Iron Man appears, and Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) is in her new suit.

DD3 16 Giant-Man, Iron Man and Dr. Strange restore Daredevil’s radar sense. “Nine days” after DD3 13-FB. Foggy reveals he found Jack Murdock’s bones and fires Matt. Before Wasp’s return.

DD3 17 is mostly a flashback story.

DD3 18 picks up shortly (-edit- make that two months or so -edit-) after DD3 16. Captain America (Steve Rogers) appears in a flashback set between DD3 17-18, who says that Mole Man has been battling Ulik (is this a reference to a recent Thor story?). Milla appears in Matt’s place, but when Foggy checks, Milla’s still in her padded cell.

DD3 19 starts the same night as DD3 18. Giant-Man appears. Daredevil discovers the mysteries of his father’s bones and Milla’s appearance/disappearance are caused by the Coyote, a new villain with Spot’s powers. A drunk Foggy, convinced Matt's crazy, tells Kirsten that Matt is Daredevil.

DD3 20 starts the same night as DD3 19 and goes into the next day. Daredevil learns that Coyote is powered by a captive Spot. Kirsten, thinking Daredevil is crazy and needs to be brought in for his safety, finds the police won’t help her; they think she’s having a lovers’ quarrel with Matt/Daredevil.

DD3 21 picks up the same day as the end of DD3 20. Daredevil defeats Coyote and learns that Foggy told Kirsten about Daredevil’s identity. That night, Kirsten gets Spider-Man to bring in Daredevil. Spider-Man is actually Dr. Octopus in Spider-Man’s body.

DD3 22 is probably the day after DD3 21. Daredevil battles Spider-Man, but they team up to fight Stilt-Man. Matt and Foggy make up, but Foggy reveals he might have cancer.

* * *

So, DD3 12-22 takes a little less than two weeks to happen. At the start of the two weeks, Spider-Man is fine. At the end of the two weeks, Spider-Man is already replaced by Dr. Octopus. Daredevil is missing during the middle of these two weeks and can’t appear anywhere else.

During these two weeks, Doom is not in Latveria. It's implied that this is while Doom is in exile, but that’s not explicitly referenced. He could just be out and about.

Carol Danvers has already changed her identity from Ms. Marvel to Captain Marvel, so after AVX.

Wasp is still considered dead, so this is before her return, so before A4 31-34.

It looks like Dr. Octopus replaced Spider-Man after AVX and before A4 31-34. Does that work? Also, is Doom still in exile during this period?


* * *

The only thing left to place (aside from those Deadpool issues, but we don't have much to go on right now for those) is Wolverine v4 #16. Of the issues in Dr. Strange's chronology, W4 16 was published during Fear Itself, during Spider-Island, the same month as NA2 17 and before GR9 7-9 & VENOM2 13-14. W4 16 needs to take place after Fear Itself because of Cap & Thor, so most likely after Spider-Island as well (which happens shortly after Fear Itself). NA2 17-23 and VENOM2 13-14 were published at roughly the same time. Time seems to open up to allow for other stories to take pace after Spider-Island, so I'll say W4 16 happens after Spider-Island and before VENOM2 13-14 for Dr. Strange.

This would mean that Schism happens at roughly the same time as VENOM2 13-14, which is before Storm joins the Avengers. So that lines up nicley.

Putting it all together, we have this for Dr. Strange:

DOCTOR STRANGE II/DR. STEPHEN VINCENT STRANGE/"STEPHEN SANDERS"

ASM 555-FB
[LASTDEF 3]
[FF 556]
[FF 557]
[A/INV 3]
[A/INV 4]
[A/INV 5]
[A/INV 6]
[A/INV 7]
[A/INV 8]
[A/INV 12]
[FF 562]
[NA: ILLUM2 5]
[SECINV 8-FB]
[MA 20]
T 602
[NA 51]
[NA 52-FB]
[NA 52]
[NA 53]
[NA 54]
[M/DIVAS 2]
[NA 55-BTS]
[NA 59]
[NA 60]
[XFOR3 25]
[X:TS&P 3/4]
[DRV: OJD]
[DRV 1]
[DRV 4]
[IM5 22]
[IM5 23]
[IM5 24]
[DOOMWAR 6]
[STRANGE2 1]
[STRANGE2 2]
[STRANGE2 3]
[STRANGE2 4]
[GIRL COMICS 2/6]
[SENTRY:FS]
[A4 1]
[ASM 627-FB-BTS]
[H2 619-FB]
[H2 618]
[H2 619]
[H2 620]
[XCM:S&G-FB-BTS]
[NA2 1]
[NA2 2]
[NA2 3]
[NA2 4]
[NA2 5]
[NA2 6]
[NA2 7]
[IAAA 1]
[IAAA 2/3]
[H2 633]
[H2 634]
[H2 635]
[NA2 8]
[M/PO 1/6]
[A4 8]
[A4 9]
[A4 10]
[A4 11]
[A4 12]
[A4 12.1]
[NA2 9]
[NA2 10]
[NA2 11]
[NA2 12]
[NA2 13]
[AACAD 10]
[AACAD 11]
[AACAD 12-BTS]
[NA@2 1]
[A@2 1]
[FI 1 (18/19:2-18/19:4)] ~ [A4 13 (19/20:1-19/20:4)-FB]
[A4 13 (19/20:5-19/20:6)-FB]
[FI 1 (20-44)]
[TB 155]
[FI 2]
[IM2.0 6]
[IM2.0 7]
[NA2 15-FB]
[FI 6]
[FI: DEEP 1]
[FI: DEEP 2]
[FI: DEEP 3]
[FI: DEEP 4]
[IM 509]
[FI (1-8)]
[AACAD 20]
[FI 7 (11-31)]
[FI 7.1]
[FI 7 (35-36)]
[A4 18]
[TB 163.1-BTS]
[FI: FEARLESS 6]
[FI: FEARLESS 7]
[FI: FEARLESS 9]
[FI: FEARLESS 10]
[FI: FEARLESS 11]
[FI: FEARLESS 12]
[DEF4 12 (11)]
[DEF4 1 (1-3)]
[DEF4 12 (12:2-13:6)]
[DEF4 1 (4:1-4:3)]
[DEF4 12 (14)]
[FI 7 (53-54)]
[DEF4 12 (20-21)]
[ASM 673]
[W4 16]
GR9 7-BTS | cf GR9 8
[VENOM2 13.1]
[VENOM2 13.2]
[VENOM2 13.4]
[VENOM2 14]
GR9 9
[NA2 16.1]
[A4 19]
[NA2 17]
[NA2 19]
[NA2 20]
[NA2 21]
[NA2 22]
[NA2 23]
[NM3 44]
[NM3 49]
[F.F. 11]
[FF 600]
[H4 50]
[H4 51]
[H4 52]
[AASS 6]
[NA2 24 (5-17)-FB]
[A4 28-FB]
[NA2 24 (18)-FB]
[NA2 24 (1-2)]
[AVX 1]
[AVX 2 (1-2:1)]
[NA2 24 (3-4)]
[NA2 24 (19-20)]
[AVX 2 (2:2-7:4)]
[A4 25]
[AVX 3]
[AVX 4]
[W&X 11]
[AVX 7 (6-9)]
[NA2 29]
[AVX 7 (10-23)]
[AVX 8]
[AVX 9]
[AVX 10]
[AVX 12-FB]
[AVX 11]
[AACAD 39-FB-BTS]
[DD3 16]
[A4 34 (1-29)]
[W&X 23]
[A4 34 (30-32)]
[NA2 31]
[NA2 32]
[NA2 33]
[NA2 34]
[NM3 50]
[NA3 1-FB]
[NA3 1]
[NA3 2]
[NA3 3]
-Daron Jensen

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Jason Doty » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:51 pm

Col Fury wrote
This would mean that Schism happens at roughly the same time as VENOM2 13-14, which is before Storm joins the Avengers. So that lines up nicley.
I think Venom 13-14 comes after Schism to accommodate X-23, I'm thinking it takes place either between between X-23 #20-21
or between X-23 #21-and her joining the Avengers Academy. I'm unsure if that affects your Dr. Strange placements.

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by JephYork » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:15 pm

I think Venom 13-14 comes after Schism to accommodate X-23
Can you elaborate on why?

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Jason Doty » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:00 pm

I'm just going on memory here.

X-23 #17-21 take place after Schism, and my thoughts on this was that the Circle of 4 arc in Venom took place between her not deciding to stay with either camp of X-Men and joining the Avengers Academy on her trip across country. (X-23 #20 and Venom #13-14 came out around the same time)

But since her and Gambit had to be back prior Age of X and Fear Itself. (which I had placed between X-23 #16-17 I guess a case could also be made for her appearing here between her being "summoned" by Amadeus Cho in Fear Itself and X-23 #17 if it has to be.

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Michael » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:04 pm

Fury, you're arguing that Spider-Man was Ock, not Peter, in New Avengers 31-34, correct? Spider-Man isn't acting like Ock in those issues and half the Avengers get possessed in that story- you'd think that Strange would check everyone out after everything was over to make sure they were really themselves. I can't think of anything that absolutely rules it out but it's not an ideal placement.

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:21 am

Jason Doty wrote:X-23 #20 and Venom #13-14 came out around the same time
VENOM2 13, 13.1, 13.2, 13.3, 13.4 & 14 were all published in the same month (April 2012). Venom, Ghost Rider, Red Hulk & X-23 appear, because these comics were originally intended to be a crossover between these characters' books. But because Ghost Rider and X-23 were being cancelled, they were all made point-issues for Venom.

Red Hulk #48 was published April 2012.

Both Ghost Rider & X-23 had a skip month in April 2012.

Ghost Rider #8 was published March 2012 and #9 was published May 2012.

X-23 #20 was published March 2012 and #21 was published May 2012.

VENOM2 13-14 takes place between Ghost Rider #8-9, so it would appear that VENOM2 13-14 takes place between X-23 #20-21. However, X-23 #22 was solicited but never came out. Perhaps the X-23/Venom crossover issue was supposed to be #22? Or was it supposed to be #21, that got moved over to Venom, #22 was published as #21, so #22 never happened? And why didn't Red Hulk have a skip month? Who knows? Either way…
Jason Doty wrote:X-23 #17-21 take place after Schism
The recap page in X-23 #17 says X-23 #17 takes place after Schism. So,

Schism -> X-23 #17-20 (& maybe #21) -> VENOM2 13-14
Michael wrote:Fury, you're arguing that Spider-Man was Ock, not Peter, in New Avengers 31-34, correct?
At the moment, yes. Given the events of DD3 12-22, I don't see any other solution. Unless of course, Spider-Man gets his body back in a timeframe that still works before A4 31-34, without any other comics referencing the switch making this impossible.

But I wouldn't bet on that.
Michael wrote:Spider-Man isn't acting like Ock in those issues and half the Avengers get possessed in that story- you'd think that Strange would check everyone out after everything was over to make sure they were really themselves. I can't think of anything that absolutely rules it out but it's not an ideal placement.
In DD3 22, Daredevil uses his super-senses to confirm that this is actually Spider-Man. It's possible that Strange could have been "fooled" as well. This is, after all, Spider-Man's body if not his mind.

But you're right, it's probably not ideal. *shrug*
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Jason Doty » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:03 am

Fury,
Cant you detach the last page of Daredevil #21 (Does it specifically say that night?) to after the events in Avengers arc and Spider-Man arc where Doc becomes Spider-Man?

Daredevil #21 (pg.1-?)
New Avengers #31-34
Amazing Spider-Man #698-700
Avenging Spider-Man #15.1
Daredevil #21 (pg.?)
Daredevil #22

Also, Do we agree that "Circle of 4" happens after Schism? If so, either side of X-23 #20 or #21 is acceptable to me depending on where you believed she traveled first, but before her appearance in Avengers Academy.

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:56 pm

Jason Doty wrote:Fury,
Cant you detach the last page of Daredevil #21 (Does it specifically say that night?) to after the events in Avengers arc and Spider-Man arc where Doc becomes Spider-Man?

Daredevil #21 (pg.1-?)
New Avengers #31-34
Amazing Spider-Man #698-700
Avenging Spider-Man #15.1
Daredevil #21 (pg.?)
Daredevil #22
It doesn't HAVE to be that night, I suppose it could be a day or two later. But if it's stretched any longer than that then Kirsten has no reason to get ahold of Spider-Man to go after Daredevil. Even if she's avoiding Matt's calls, Foggy would call her to say that Matt's not crazy. How long does it take for the Wasp to come back? How long does it take for Dr. Octopus to replace Spider-Man? And are there any comics that have to take place after Wasp's return and before the Octopus/Spider-Man switch? If all of that together takes longer than a day or two to happen, then DD3 15-22 falls apart.
Col_Fury wrote:Schism -> X-23 #17-20 (& maybe #21) -> VENOM2 13-14
Jason Doty wrote:Also, Do we agree that "Circle of 4" happens after Schism?
Col_Fury wrote:Schism -> X-23 #17-20 (& maybe #21) -> VENOM2 13-14
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Jason Doty » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:22 pm

Fury, after reading your description of Daredevil above.

The Avengers and New Avengers issues could go between Daredevil #17-18 (allowing for both Spider-Man (Parker) and Daredevil to appear.

Daredevil #18-21 (pg.1-?) happen about the same time Amazing Spider-Man #698-700

Avenging Spider-Man no.15.1

Daredevil #21 (pg.?)-22

Am I missing any overlapping characters?

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Michael » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:58 pm

OK, I just found an interview with Hickman that might complicate things:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=42517
The incoming changes to the "Superior" Spider-Man will impact on the book starting with "Issue #6, I think. It'll be subtle, as it should be. After a while you become numb to the secrets, but Dan [Slott] did a good job on this, no doubt."
Is Hickman saying that Ock takes over as Spidey starting with Avengers 6? Because if so, that complicates things. Because Strange has his full powers in New Avengers 1-3, which means those issues have to take place after New Avengers 31-34. And New Avengers 1-3 take place before Avengers 1-5.
I think we should wait until Avengers 6 comes out to decide on placement. Because if Ock thinks to himself, "this is my first mission as an Avenger", or something along those lines, then Ock has to replace Peter after Avengers 1-5.

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:02 am

Jason Doty wrote:The Avengers and New Avengers issues could go between Daredevil #17-18
That could work.

Giant-Man appears in DD3 19, but there's no mention of Wasp. This issue could take place after Wasp's return. Also, Foggy doesn't tell Kirsten about Matt/Daredevil until DD3 19, so as long as DD3 18-22 stay together, we should be good. It would mean that Foggy would be worrying about Matt's mental state for a while before breaking down, and it would mean that Matt left Foggy alone for a while, but oh well.

As long as there's no comics where Matt and Foggy appear as law partners that have to occur after Wasp's return and before the Spider-Man/Octopus switch.
Michael wrote:Is Hickman saying that Ock takes over as Spidey starting with Avengers 6?
It sounds like it. Good thing Jason found a break in the DD3 story!
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:37 am

Col_Fury wrote:
DD3 18 picks up shortly after DD3 16. Captain America (Steve Rogers) appears in a flashback set between DD3 17-18, who says that Mole Man has been battling Ulik (is this a reference to a recent Thor story?). Milla appears in Matt’s place, but when Foggy checks, Milla’s still in her padded cell.
I have no idea about Mole Man battling Ulik. Daron, what is Cap wearing? His recent costume changes may provide general placement clues within the larger MU too.

I think there's a span of time between ASM 700 and Spidey/Ock's appearance in DD3, but I'll need to check this out when I have more time.
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:09 am

Cap's in his "normal" Cap outfit, not his recent redesign.
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:34 am

Hmm. That means that FB in DD3 18 would have to occur quite a bit before ASM 695-700, the Spidey/Ock transfer arc, thus putting a large gap between DD3 17 and 18. (Cap appears in his new costume in ASM 698, and if we assume no switching of costumes back and forth, ASM 698 would need to occur after Avengers v5 #3, since the costume switch occurs in A5 1.)

Also, Ock's appearances as the new Spidey after happen thusly:
Avenging Spider-Man #15.1 (five days to take place, culminating in Ock's new Spidey costume)
Superior Spider-Man #1 (two days to complete)
Superior Spider-Man #2 (begins with the new Spidey's "second day on the job" -- transpires over at least six days)
Superior Spider-Man #3 (the day after SuSM 2, "two weeks" after ASM 700)

So should Spidey Ock appear in DD3 after all this?
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Jason Doty » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:42 am

I think DD Should happen as early as possible, so between pages of Superior Spider-Man #2 after the press conference, which is where people would want to contact him to help out, since he is so popular with the media, somewhere between the dates with MJ.

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