Recent Hulk Questions

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LordZorn
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Recent Hulk Questions

Post by LordZorn » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:36 pm

Guys:

1. Is Avengers Assemble! considered canon??? If so, where does it fit in the HULK's chronology???

2. In H6 3, someone is shown watching a laptop presentation(we never see it) of HULK supposedly doing battle during SECINV. Am I wrong or was HULK off-world on Sakaar during SECINV???

TIA

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Re: Recent Hulk Questions

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:51 pm

Avengers Assemble #1-8 take place shortly before Avengers vs. X-Men. #9-12 take place after Avengers vs. X-Men.

Hulk returned from space and attacked New York in World War Hulk, which takes place before Secret Invasion. So yes, the Hulk was on Earth during Secret Invasion. However, he was captured and imprisoned after WWHulk. I'm pretty sure he was in prison during Secret Invasion, though.
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Re: Recent Hulk Questions

Post by Midnighter » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:04 pm

Col_Fury wrote:Hulk returned from space and attacked New York in World War Hulk, which takes place before Secret Invasion. So yes, the Hulk was on Earth during Secret Invasion. However, he was captured and imprisoned after WWHulk. I'm pretty sure he was in prison during Secret Invasion, though.
Uhmmm... No, I think that Hulk fight against Red Hulk before Secret Invasion. After that Banner is no longer in prison, he fight Wendigos in Las Vegas before SI (due the presence of Moon Knight, and the fact that Sentry and Ms. Marvel are together).

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Re: Recent Hulk Questions

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:15 am

Midnighter wrote:After that Banner is no longer in prison, he fight Wendigos in Las Vegas before SI (due the presence of Moon Knight
Ah yes! You're right.

Thanks, Midnighter! :)
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Re: Recent Hulk Questions

Post by intp » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:23 am

I found this somewhat confusing as well. So does this mean that the entirety of World War Hulk occurred some time between Civil War and New Avengers # 26/Mighty Avengers # 1, which led directly into the Secret Invasion storyline?

Addendum: I noticed from Spider-Man's entry that World War Hulk apparently occurred some time between New Avengers # 36 and 38. Just curious, has this placement been discussed somewhere else; and if so, can someone point me to it? Thanks!

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Re: Recent Hulk Questions

Post by intp » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:19 pm

I found the old thread about New Avengers Annual # 2 and World War Hulk. It does appear to be a conundrum. It seems hard to believe that the entirety of World War Hulk occurs between New Avengers # 37 and Annual # 2. I'll do some re-reading of the issues and see if I might be able to come with up something that helps.

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Re: Recent Hulk Questions

Post by intp » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:36 pm

I've been trying to figure out where World War Hulk happens, with respect to the New Avengers. WWH evidently takes place some time between New Avengers # 33 and New Avengers Annual # 2. Still, it would have been a heck of a lot better if Bendis had made explicit reference somewhere to the events of WWH, in New Avengers, other than Dr. Strange's one offhand comment in New Avengers Annual # 2 about how "I wanted so much to help my old friend Bruce Banner. But I failed", followed by his relinquishing the mantle of Sorceror Supreme.

In WWH # 1, the Mighty Avengers have apparently already been assembled, in that Wonder Man and Ms. Marvel are among the heroes who meet with Iron Man. Spider-Man (in black outfit) and Luke Cage are also present, indicating the Mighty Avengers and New Avengers are continuing to cooperate. That, alone, suggests that WWH occurs some time after the Venom Bomb incident, when the Mighty Avengers and New Avengers apparently first interacted in a cooperative fashion, in New Avengers # 36 and Mighty Avengers # 8 (see New Avengers # 36; Luke Cage tells Jessica Jones about how, during fb post-Venom Bomb, the New Avengers and Mighty Avengers just tacitly worked together without fighting, for the first time; Mighty Avengers # 8-- Wonder Man says to Carol Danvers, "Um, we're supposed to arrest them, right?"). However, that is a relatively "weak" suggestion; what is more clear is that WWH must occur at some point between NA 33 and NA Annual # 2, because of Echo and Ronin (Barton):

In WWH # 2, Dr. Strange is in his boarded up Sanctum Sanctorum with Iron Fist, Maya Lopez (Echo) and Ronin (Hawkeye), talking over what to do about the returned and enraged Hulk. This situation indicates that WWH must have occurred some time after the New Avengers retrieved Echo, and Barton took over the role of Ronin; this is consistent with WWH occurring some time after New Avengers # 33, when the New Avengers returned to Dr. Strange's place after rescuing Echo in Japan, and Echo tells Barton that he can use the Ronin identity and costume "until you no longer need it."

In WWH # 2, Luke Cage and Spider-Man (in black costume) are with Ms. Marvel, Ares, and Wonder Man, further indication that WWH must have occurred some time after the formation of the Mighty Avengers.

However, Dr. Strange's hands get shattered in WWH # 3, which is never really depicted in New Avengers at any point, including in New Avengers Annual # 2. This may have just been an error on Bendis' part, but perhaps gives an excuse to place WWH after NA Annual # 2, as discussed further below.

Ronin (Barton), Iron Fist and Echo appear yet again in WWH # 3 to fight the Hulk's warbound, at Dr. Strange's Sanctum Sanctorum. Since Dr. Strange renounced the title of Sorceror Supreme in New Avengers Annual # 2, the events of WWH must have occurred some time before his reununciation, and some time after NA # 33, when Barton became Ronin with Echo's blessing.

Looking at the events of New Avengers # 33-37 and Annual # 2, however, there does not appear to be convenient place to locate the events of WWH. In # 33, just after Echo tells Barton that he can continue to use the Ronin identity, Luke Cage suggests that they meet "back here [Dr. Strange's boarded up place] for dinner tomorrow night." In # 34, they all appear to meet again the next day, when Dr. Strange casts a spell to help them trust each other, by seeing their 'true' intentions. They then decide to help out in the whole Venom Bomb crisis, leading into # 35 (toward end) to # 36 (flashback, Luke Cage telling Jessica what happened), which is roughly concurrent with Mighty Avengers # 8. In NA # 36, Luke is telling Jessica "what happened... today", i.e. earlier that same day.

In NA # 36, the Mighty Avengers then talk about invading Latveria "in one hour" in retaliation for the Venom Bomb incident. the New Avengers go to deal with the Hood's gang almost immediately thereafter, leading to Dr. Strange's apparent renunciation of his status as Sorceror Supreme in Annual # 2.

As I see it, there are two possible places to locate WWH, both of which have serious problems. One is to place WWH somewhere after NA 36 and before NA Annual # 2, which is a problem because there is no convenient place to put it. Another is to assume Bendis just made a mistake (about Dr. Strange) in NA Annual # 2, and that, instead, WWH occurred some time between NA Annual # 2 and NA # 38 (the whole Secret Invasion storyline), where there is a much more plausible break. Dr. Strange, perhaps, could have only "suggested" he was renouncing his title in NA Annual # 2, but had not fully done so until after the events of WWH. That would also explain away the fact that Doc's hands never appear to be broken at any time during NA # 33-37 or Annual # 2.

Neither solution is great, but I think the second one might work slightly better in that it can be partly explained away; perhaps Dr. Strange's reference to "helping Banner" really was just guilt about sending Hulk into space; and perhaps this was Strange's first use of the Zom power, which he then took too far during WWH (when he fully manifested as Zom), after which he then impliedly renounced his status as Sorceror Supreme (off-panel).

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Re: Recent Hulk Questions

Post by intp » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:01 pm

Just wondering, do my suggestions make any sense, or am I just way off base?

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Re: Recent Hulk Questions

Post by JephYork » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:29 pm

The Avengers Index already laid out this whole period of time.

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Re: Recent Hulk Questions

Post by intp » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:57 pm

Thanks, I'll check it out.

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Re: Recent Hulk Questions

Post by intp » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:38 pm

I have taken a look at the Avengers Index. So it appears that World War Hulk has been deemed to occur some time between New Avengers # 37 and New Avengers Annual # 2. I guess there just must be one of those major "unexplained gaps" in time to fit what amounts to a large number of events into such a small window.

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Re: Recent Hulk Questions

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:40 am

The gap occurs between pages 18 and 19. The theory is that it took the Hood months to find his imprisoned comrades and that during that time he was placating the other gathered villains with lucrative heists to maintain some credibility.
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