Dr. Doom between MA 11 and Sec Inv:DR

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Dr. Doom between MA 11 and Sec Inv:DR

Post by intp »

I had a question about Dr. Doom. After he is arrested in Mighty Avengers # 11, he is apparently imprisoned on the Raft. At some point, he apparently escapes or is otherwise released, which is apparent in Secret Invasion: Dark Reign, when he initially meets with Norman Osborn's cabal.

My question is, when did Dr. Doom leave the Raft? The only reference I could find was in Secret Invasion # 1, p. 33, when some government agents note that various criminals are in Raft custody, including Dr. Doom and the Molecule Man, when suddenly an alien virus apparently releases everyone. Was this supposed to be the event where Doom escaped?

I also saw references in Dr. Doom's chronology project entry to Dr. Doom appearances in Sub-Mariner v.3 (2007-2008) # 1-3 & 6, between Mighty Avengers # 11 and Secret Invasion: Dark Reign. I don't have those Sub-Mariner issues, so maybe it's explained there how Doom got off the Raft?
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Re: Dr. Doom between MA 11 and Sec Inv:DR

Post by intp »

I picked up the Sub-Mariner: Revolution Tpb recently, but Dr. Doom only appears at the very end, already free at Latveria, so I guess that wasn't the answer.

Addendum: Perhaps a line should be added in Dr. Doom, to reflect an escape "BTS" in Secret Invasion # 1?

Dr. Doom

MA 9
MA 10
MA 11
*SECINV 1- BTS
SUB-M3 1-FB
SUB-M3 4-FB
SUB-M3 6
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Re: Dr. Doom between MA 11 and Sec Inv:DR

Post by JephYork »

The Sub-Mariner appearances feature Iron Man as head of SHIELD, and take place before Secret Invason #1. (See Iron Man's chronology.)

This leavs us with an interesting dilemma: Doom is arrested in MA #11, free and in Latveria in SUB-M3 #6, and noted as still imprisoned in SECINV #1.

He then appears at the Cabal meeting in SECINV:DR...and in Dark Avengers #1, HAMMER escorts Doom back to Latveria, where we're given the impression that it's his first time back in a while.

My guess? That was a Doombot in the SUB-M3 series. The real Doom was imprisoned the entire time -- and was then either freed behind the scenes by the virus in SECINV #1 ... or Norman let Doom out of custody during SECINV #8, in order to gain Doom's goodwill so that he'd serve on Norman's Cabal.

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Re: Dr. Doom between MA 11 and Sec Inv:DR

Post by Col_Fury »

Doom's chronology has been updated a lot recently; check it out on the "D" page!

In Mighty Avengers, Doom fights Avengers. After this, Doom appears in the Namor mini, the Penance mini, One More Day and then surrenders himself to the Fantastic Four in FF 557-562 (because he's scared of the Marquis of Death). This is where Doom is imprisoned at the Raft. Then Secret Invasion happens, Osborn lets him out, Doom joins Osborn's Cabal and he goes back to Latveria in Dark Avengers. Then he appears again as the Marquis of Death's assistant (time travel is involved), resumes being Doom when the Marquis of Death is defeated, and then makes more appearances in Captain Britain, Thor, etc.

It's all in Doom's chronology, up to the start of Doomwar!

If you want to see more of Doom's chronology after that, check out this:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6914&start=45#p38622
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Re: Dr. Doom between MA 11 and Sec Inv:DR

Post by intp »

Interesting, but it seems doubtful that the Avengers would just let Doom go after MA 11. So, is the idea that the Avengers defeat him then just let him go, after placing him under arrest for terrorism? Then Doom meets up with Namor then fights the FF, then is imprisoned? Looks like another continuity mistake by Bendis, or maybe by someone else (Millar in FF? I haven't read those particular FF issues so I don't know).

I find Jeph's idea to be more plausible-- to make the issues consistent by declaring the Doom appearances in the Namor and FF stories as involving a Doombot(s), while the real Doom was imprisoned the whole time (immediately after MA 11), then he was secretly released at some point, either at the beginning or the end of Secret Invasion, after which he appears in Dark Reign.

So maybe the chronology could go as follows?

MA 11
*SECINV 1 or 8- BTS
[SECINV:DR 1 (1 - 7)]

while these Doom appearances could be attributed to a Doombot?

SUB-M3 1-FB
SUB-M3 4-FB
SUB-M3 6
PEN:REL 4
FNSM 24
FF 558-FB
FF 557
FF 558
FF 559
FF 560
FF 561
FF 562

I've read Sub-M3 1-6 but haven't read any of those other issues (PEN:REL 4, FNSM 24, FF 557-562) so it's possible that something in those issues makes it hard or impossible to use the Doombot idea. What do others think?
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Re: Dr. Doom between MA 11 and Sec Inv:DR

Post by Col_Fury »

It's definitely, absolutely Doom in the FF issues. The story involves time travel, Doom becoming the Marquis of Death's assistant and more time travel. There's no way it can't be Doom.

The problem is that two stories end with Doom in prison (Mighty Avengers and Fantastic Four). Doom has to escape (or be released, claim diplomatic immunity, whatever) to then appear in the other story. Since the Mighty story ends some time before Secret Invasion and the Fantastic Four story runs basically right up to Secret Invasion (Secret Invasion takes place between FF 563-564), then the FF story is the reason Doom's in prison during Secret Invasion. Not only that, but FF 566 references Dark Avengers #1-4 and the previous FF story. It's pretty solidly laid out for us in the FF comics.

So how did Doom get out after Mighty #11? I dunno. But he does.

Because it's Doom in the FF story (and there's no question about it), then there's no reason to assume it's a Doombot in the other stories (the Namor mini, the Penance mini, One More Day). Until some comic says otherwise, of course. :wink:
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Re: Dr. Doom between MA 11 and Sec Inv:DR

Post by intp »

That's too bad. Sounds like you're right and that it was a flat-out mistake by Millar (Edit- or maybe Bendis). I didn't buy that FF collection because of harsh negative reviews I had read, and now I want to read it even less.

Edit: But on the positive side, it means maybe I can ignore MA 11, because I disliked the idea of Doom being captured on his home turf. Maybe Doom has improved his Doombots, so that the Doom in MA 11 was a sophisticated Doombot that fooled everyone? After all, some of SHIELD's LMD's have been pretty tricky. I know it's a bit of a stretch, but it would be a way to make the stories consistent. Or, I guess the idea that Doom just mysteriously escaped after MA 11 also works.
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