Hand ninja experts unite!
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:43 am
I have Hand ninja questions! Can anyone help?
Wolverine v4 #13 has two flashbacks with the Hand in them, and I'm trying to figure out where the Hand (as a group) appeared before and after each flashback.
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The first is shortly before Fantastic Four #1. According to the Hand's OHOTMU profile, around this time:
- in 1972, a clash between Hand and Chaste leads a ninja named Drake to accidentally kill her own father; she quits the Hand shortly thereafter.
- a Hand ninja saves a young Elektra from being killed. Elektra is impressed by the ninja's sai. (No jokes.)
- Elektra, rejected by the Chaste, tries to infiltrate the Hand but falls under their power.
Obviously the 1972 story occurs before this Wolverine FB. (Right now, the FF debuted in, what, 1998 or thereabouts?)
But the next two scenes -- a ninja saves Elektra; Elektra joins the Hand -- according to Elektra's profile, those both occur shortly after her father is killed. Which is when Matt Murdock was in school with her. Which means, before he became Daredevil.
So, these scenes occur before 1964's DD #1. But how far before? Are they before, or after, Fantastic Four #1??
Also, which issues are being referenced here? Drake isn't in the MCP, but the internet tells me that she's from Elektra v2 #16-21. But which issue(s) contain the flashback with her killing her father and leaving the Hand?
A Hand ninja saving Elektra ... no idea where that's from.
Elektra joining the Hand ... another unknown. We probably first heard about it in Frank Miller's initial DD/Elektra story arc -- but where did we first SEE it on-panel?
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Okay, flashback #2. Wolverine bursts into the Hand's lair and kills everyone he sees. This one occurs during the W3 "Enemy of the State/Agent of SHIELD" arc. I have chronologies for the undead Hand ninjas seen in that arc -- the trouble is, those are creepy undead ninjas! And the ones seen in this flashback are regular Hand ninjas!
I'd like to point out when the last and next times *regular* Hand ninjas appeared, relative to this flashback. According to the OHOTMU entry, that was:
before: new Hand branch founded by shape-shifter Takashi supported politician Lyle Crawford, but Elektra killed Takashi. Months later, Pain, Shadow and Thought attacked Elektra and killed Drake.
after: the Hand sought unions with the Yashida clan and Hydra, though Ronin (Echo) undermined these efforts.
So ... what issues are those stories from?
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Thanks in advance!! Looking forward to learning more about the ever-wily Hand...
-Jeph!
Wolverine v4 #13 has two flashbacks with the Hand in them, and I'm trying to figure out where the Hand (as a group) appeared before and after each flashback.
--------
The first is shortly before Fantastic Four #1. According to the Hand's OHOTMU profile, around this time:
- in 1972, a clash between Hand and Chaste leads a ninja named Drake to accidentally kill her own father; she quits the Hand shortly thereafter.
- a Hand ninja saves a young Elektra from being killed. Elektra is impressed by the ninja's sai. (No jokes.)
- Elektra, rejected by the Chaste, tries to infiltrate the Hand but falls under their power.
Obviously the 1972 story occurs before this Wolverine FB. (Right now, the FF debuted in, what, 1998 or thereabouts?)
But the next two scenes -- a ninja saves Elektra; Elektra joins the Hand -- according to Elektra's profile, those both occur shortly after her father is killed. Which is when Matt Murdock was in school with her. Which means, before he became Daredevil.
So, these scenes occur before 1964's DD #1. But how far before? Are they before, or after, Fantastic Four #1??
Also, which issues are being referenced here? Drake isn't in the MCP, but the internet tells me that she's from Elektra v2 #16-21. But which issue(s) contain the flashback with her killing her father and leaving the Hand?
A Hand ninja saving Elektra ... no idea where that's from.
Elektra joining the Hand ... another unknown. We probably first heard about it in Frank Miller's initial DD/Elektra story arc -- but where did we first SEE it on-panel?
--------
Okay, flashback #2. Wolverine bursts into the Hand's lair and kills everyone he sees. This one occurs during the W3 "Enemy of the State/Agent of SHIELD" arc. I have chronologies for the undead Hand ninjas seen in that arc -- the trouble is, those are creepy undead ninjas! And the ones seen in this flashback are regular Hand ninjas!
I'd like to point out when the last and next times *regular* Hand ninjas appeared, relative to this flashback. According to the OHOTMU entry, that was:
before: new Hand branch founded by shape-shifter Takashi supported politician Lyle Crawford, but Elektra killed Takashi. Months later, Pain, Shadow and Thought attacked Elektra and killed Drake.
after: the Hand sought unions with the Yashida clan and Hydra, though Ronin (Echo) undermined these efforts.
So ... what issues are those stories from?
--------
Thanks in advance!! Looking forward to learning more about the ever-wily Hand...
-Jeph!