Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

Moderators: Paul Bourcier, Kevin W., Col_Fury, Arthur, JephYork, Somebody

Locked
intp
Hero
Hero
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:52 pm

Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by intp » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:44 pm

I was reviewing FF # 117 (1971/12). In that issue, the Human Torch, in a flashback, flies over to the Great Refuge, looking for Crystal. However, he is attacked by various Inhumans acting under Maximus' command; an unnamed Inhuman who looks like Stallior says that Maximus is in control and that Black Bolt and the others have fled.

FF # 117 was released the same month as Amazing Adventures # 9 (1971/12). Maximus had temporarily seized control of the Great Refuge, not long before that, in AA2 6, in Black Bolt's absence (while Black Bolt had amnesia in San Francisco, as a result of Maximus' mental powers in AA2 5). Black Bolt regains control of the Great Refuge in Avengers # 95 (1972/01), using his voice power; A 95 occurs shortly after AA2 10.

I was trying to figure out where the flashback in FF # 117 occurred, with respect to the Inhumans in Amazing Adventures. It must have happened some time after AA2 5, and before Avengers # 95. The reasons I am wondering are:

1) If the unnamed Inhuman is indeed Stallior, should he be given an appearance between SS 18 and INH 1? As of Inhumans # 1, Maximus was imprisoned and Stallior was supposedly reformed. e.g.

Stallior

SS 18
*FF 117
INH 1


2) Should Maximus' chronology be changed slightly? Maximus is currently listed as appearing in

AA2 6
AA2 7-BTS
I:US 1
A 95

The end of AA2 6 and the beginning of AA2 7 feature the Royal Family (Gorgon, Karnak, Medusa, and Triton) fleeing from Maximus (Black Bolt still being in San Francisco with amnesia, until his memory is restored in Avengers # 95, which occurs after AA2 10). So would Maximus have a BTS appearance in FF 117, shortly after AA2 7- BTS?

3) I was then led to review of Inhumans: the Untold Story (1990/04), to see how Maximus' appearance between AA2 7-BTS and A 95 fits in.

In that issue, there is a framing sequence with the Inhumans on the Moon (where they moved during John Byrne's 1980's FF tenure, in FF 240, 1982/03). Black Bolt visits his imprisoned, insane brother Maximus and has a long series of flashbacks. The first set of flashbacks occur chronologically before any of the Inhumans' first appearance (Medusa in FF # 36 and the others in FF # 44+). The lengthy flashbacks explain how Medusa got amnesia and was manipulated by the Wizard, and how the Royal Family ended up where they were in FF # 44+). This is a cool little story that helps make the events of FF # 44-50 make a little more sense. A later flashback in I:US 1 occurs immediately after FF # 48, which shows the Seeker being killed by an angry Gorgon.

Maximus, and the rest of the Royal Family, are correctly noted as appearing in I:US 1-FB, prior to FF # 36 (Black Bolt, Crystal, Gorgon, Karnak, Maximus, Medusa, and Triton all correctly have an entry for I:US 1-FB, prior to their first actual appearances in FF # 45 (BB, Crystal, Karnak, Maximus, and Triton), FF # 44 (Gorgon), and FF # 36 (Medusa)). The entire Royal Family, except Maximus, are also correctly noted as appearing in I:US-1-FB immediately after FF 48. However, no appearance is listed for Maximus after FF # 48.

So I'm wondering if Maximus' listed appearance in I:US 1, between AA2 7-FB and A 95, is a mistake? If so, Maximus chronology should be slightly modified as follows, to add the FF 117 BTS appearance and to omit the I:US 1 appearance:

Maximus (proposed revision):

AA2 6
AA2 7-BTS
*FF 117-BTS
A 95

and also to add the following earlier appearance:

FF 48
*I:US 1-FB
FF 52

4) Also, the entire Royal Family appears in the framing sequence in I:US 1, which was on the moon and would have occurred after FF 240 (1982/03). However, I saw no such appearance listed for any of them. I haven't analyzed I:US 1 yet with respect to the framing sequence, but presumably all members of the Royal Family should have a third I:US 1 appearance added, some time after FF 240.

Originally, I was just curious about FF # 117, and didn't realize this would lead me to going back to looking at I:US 1, so this was an interesting exercise. Please let me know if it is valid or if I have made a mistake(s) somewhere. If this is indeed correct, I would be happy to try to figure out where the framing sequence takes place; however, I should note that my comics collection for the mid to late 1980's is very incomplete.

intp
Hero
Hero
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:52 pm

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by intp » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:15 pm

I thought it might be helpful if I posted a brief synopsis of Inhumans: the Untold Story, which is a rather obscure issue (I posted the same synopsis on the Masterworks Boards earlier):

Inhumans: the Untold Story # 1 (1990/04).

In a lengthy flashback, Black Bolt recalls what happened: at the Great Refuge in the Himalayas, some time after the death of Black Bolt's parents in the flashback in Avengers # 95, Maximus managed to seize control, driving out the Royal Family. Medusa ended up getting lost, injured, and having amnesia. The rest of the Royal Family, including a very young Crystal, then were exiled to the outside world, where they searched for Medusa, apparently for a number of years. Gorgon then returned to the Great Refuge, where he made a deal with Maximus: he would retrieve Medusa (long thought dead by Maximus) in exchange for the rest of the Royal Family being allowed to return. Gorgon then went looking for Medusa while Maximus had the Seeker monitor the Royal Family (this explains the mysterious Seeker in FF # 44-48). Maximus, of course, planned to betray everyone and imprison them, but apparently lusted after Medusa even then.

Meanwhile, an amnesiac Medusa experienced torment and attack by humans due to her unusual hair, which led her to a life of crime (stealing), during which she became increasingly embittered. Later, she was found by the Wizard, who offered her a place in the Frightful Four (leading to her first appearance in FF # 36). Once the Frightful Four's existence became public knowledge, Gorgon was able to track down Medusa again; he eventually caught up to her in FF # 44. Meanwhile, the Seeker continued to follow them. After Gorgon found Medusa, Black Bolt and the others were able to restore her memory (which explains her sudden personality change). The Human Torch fell in love with Crystal after meeting her in FF # 45; crazed Maximus sealed off the Great Refuge within a "negative barrier", in FF # 48.

Then, a new flashback is shown: immediately after the FF are transported away, in FF # 48, the Royal Family defeats Maximus; an enraged Gorgon kills the Seeker for killing his father years earlier. The Inhumans subsequently got loose in FF # 59 when Black Bolt used his voice power.

I hope this helps give some context.

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6281
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:32 am

intp wrote:he is attacked by various Inhumans acting under Maximus' command
intp wrote:So would Maximus have a BTS appearance in FF 117
I would say so, yes.
intp wrote:So I'm wondering if Maximus' listed appearance in I:US 1, between AA2 7-FB and A 95, is a mistake?
It looks like it is.
intp wrote:Maximus, and the rest of the Royal Family, are correctly noted as appearing in I:US 1-FB, prior to FF # 36 (Black Bolt, Crystal, Gorgon, Karnak, Maximus, Medusa, and Triton all correctly have an entry for I:US 1-FB, prior to their first actual appearances in FF # 45 (BB, Crystal, Karnak, Maximus, and Triton), FF # 44 (Gorgon), and FF # 36 (Medusa)). The entire Royal Family, except Maximus, are also correctly noted as appearing in I:US-1-FB immediately after FF 48. However, no appearance is listed for Maximus after FF # 48.
Currently, this is what Crystal's chronology looks like:

CRYSTAL/CRYSTAL AMAQUELIN [INHUMAN]
T 149/2
WI? 30/2
I:US 1-FB
{FF 45}
FF 46
FF 47
FF 48
I:US 1-FB
FF 50


To show that these are two different flashbacks, this is what it would look like if we knew the pages the flashbacks are on:

CRYSTAL/CRYSTAL AMAQUELIN [INHUMAN]
T 149/2
WI? 30/2
I:US 1 (2-10)-FB
{FF 45}
FF 46
FF 47
FF 48
I:US 1 (11-21)-FB
FF 50


Or whatever. Could you flip through the comic and tell us what pages each of the flashbacks are on? (only count story pages; don't count ads)

The Inhumans moved to the moon in FF 240. When did they leave the moon? Is there anything stopping the "current day" framing sequence from occuring when it was published?

Thanks intp!
-Daron Jensen

Michael
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 1171
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:41 am

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by Michael » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:59 am

Col_Fury wrote: The Inhumans moved to the moon in FF 240. When did they leave the moon? Is there anything stopping the "current day" framing sequence from occuring when it was published?

Thanks intp!
The Inhumans left the moon during Atlantis Rising in 1995. So I don't think there's anything stopping the framing sequence from occurring when it was published. Does anyone know when the Inhumans were free to appear?

intp
Hero
Hero
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:52 pm

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by intp » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:10 pm

I'm happy to check the page numbers of I:US 1, but may not have a chance before Sunday. The first flashback is by far the longest; the second flashback is relatively short.

loki
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:37 pm

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by loki » Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:58 pm

Actually, mentioning the Seeker reminds me. The Inhumans entry in OHOTMU HC5 named the brothers - Seeker III is Kadlec, Seeker IV is Uys.

intp
Hero
Hero
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:52 pm

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by intp » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:43 pm

Inhumans: The Untold Story is 39 pages long (the cover says "An all new 40 page epic!" but there are 48 pages total, 9 of which are ads).

On pg. 1 to pg. 2, pn. 6 (framing sequence), the Inhumans are on the Moon; Black Bolt, Crystal, Quicksilver, their daughter Luna, Medusa, Karnak, Gorgon and Triton; Black Bolt goes to visit an imprisoned Maximus and reminisces, leading to the flashbacks.

Pg. 2, pn. 7 to pg. 30 is a very lengthy series of flashbacks that precede the first actual appearances of all of the Inhumans, and is roughly broken down into three parts:

Pg. 2, pn. 7 to pg. 16-- Flashback 1, part 1: Years ago, an imprisoned Maximus uses his mental powers to control three Alpha Primitives (and to increase their intelligence to near-human level). The Alpha Primitives expose themselves to the Terrigen Mists and become beings of raw mental energy; "now and forever, they have become the Trikon!" The other Inhumans-- Black Bolt, Medusa, Gorgon, Triton, Karnak, Lockjaw, and a very young Crystal, ponder what to do as the Trikon lead the other Alpha Primitives in a general revolt. Medusa gets injured and her flying device gets out of control, sending her far away from the Great Refuge. Black Bolt uses his voice power to force the Trikon into the Negative Zone, with Lockjaw's help. Maximus threatens to slaughter scores of hostages unless Black Bolt cedes power, so he reluctantly hands over the crown. Maximus exiles the Royal Family. Maximus executes the leaders among the Alpha Primitives and declares martial law.

pg. 17-23: Flashback 1, part 2: continuing the same flashback, but "months" later, Black Bolt and the others search for Medusa. Gorgon goes back to the Great Refuge on his own and offers to retrieve Medusa in exchange for allowing the Royal Family to return. Maximus, who thought Medusa was dead, pretends to agree (but intends to betray everyone, of course). Gorgon learns that his father has been executed by the Seeker, Maximus' lackey, but before he can seek vengeance, the Seeker knocks him out with a ray gun and dumps him outside the Great Refuge again.

pg. 24 to pg. 30: Flashback 1, part 3: still continuing the same flashback, Medusa, who has amnesia, is persecuted in Paris. She runs into a charming thug, Paul Dumas, who pretends to help her but really just wants her help stealing valuables. Later, Paul betrays her and sends the authorities after her. Medusa escapes but runs briefly into Gorgon, but she doesn't recognize him and flees; Gorgon doesn't want to risk harming her, so he lets her go. Some time later, Medusa is recruited by the Wizard into the Frightful Four. Gorgon then locates Medusa and informs the other Inhumans; meanwhile, the Seeker is monitoring them.

** For all of the Inhumans except Medusa, this series of flashbacks (pg. 2, pn. 7-pg. 30) occurs before FF 44 (for Gorgon) or 45 (for the rest) and after WI? 30/2 (in the latter story, Black Bolt moves Attilan from an island to the Himalayas). For Triton, the story occurs between T 152/2 (where Triton informs Black Bolt that their island home is too vulnerable, and they need to move) and before FF 45.

**For Medusa, the flashbacks from pg. 2, pn. 7 to pg. 29, pn. 2 occur between WI? 30/2 and FF 36. A single panel (pg. 29, pn. 4), where Gorgon spots Medusa after the events of FF # 36, 38, and 41-43 (which are explicitly referred to on pg. 29, pn. 3), occurs between FF 43 and 44, for Medusa (but this appearance is very minor). Medusa doesn't actually appear on pg. 30, where Gorgon returns to the rest of the Royal Family and tells them that he has found Medusa again, just before Gorgon goes to retrieve her in FF 44.

pg. 31 recounts the events of FF # 44-48, but also notes that Medusa's memory was restored after Gorgon retrieved her.

The second major flashback occurs on pg. 32-38. Just after the events of FF # 48 (first few pages), where Maximus creates a "Negative Barrier", the Inhumans are seen inside the Great Refuge. Gorgon decides to get revenge on the Seeker for killing his father. Maximus fights back and is defeated. Gorgon kills the Seeker. Maximus becomes a raving lunatic (or at least pretends to be). The Royal Family remain captives (they would be seen periodically in FF thereafter until FF 59, when Black Bolt busts loose).

** For all of the Inumans, this second flashback (pg. 32-28) occurs just after FF 48.

Page 39 is back to the framing sequence, where Black Bolt feels pity (undeserved) for evil Maximus then takes a walk with his beloved Medusa. The other Inhumans are not depicted on pg. 39.

intp
Hero
Hero
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:52 pm

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by intp » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:00 pm

So I would suggest the following (assuming I haven't made a mistake somewhere):

BLACK BOLT/BLACKANTOR BOLTAGON [INHUMAN]
T 148/2
T 149/2
A 95-FB
T 152/2
WI? 29/2
WI? 30/2
* I:US 1 (2-30)-FB
{FF 45}
FF 46
FF 47
FF 48
* I:US 1 (32-38)-FB
FF 50

CRYSTAL/CRYSTAL AMAQUELIN [INHUMAN]
T 149/2
WI? 30/2
* I:US 1 (2-30)-FB
{FF 45}
FF 46
FF 47
FF 48
* I:US 1 (32-38)-FB
FF 50

GORGON [INHUMAN]
T 149/2
WI? 30/2
* I:US 1 (2-30)-FB
{FF 44}
FF 45
FF 46
FF 47
FF 48
* I:US 1 (32-38)-FB
FF 50

KARNAK [INHUMAN]
T 149/2
WI? 30/2
* I:US 1 (2-30)-FB
{FF 45}
FF 46
FF 47
FF 48
* I:US 1 (32-38)-FB
FF 52


LOCKJAW [INHUMAN]
* I:US 1 (2-30)-FB
{FF 45}
FF 46
FF 47
FF 48
FF 55

(note: Lockjaw is not seen in the second flashback, presumably because he somehow teleported out in time, although he may have just been lurking around somewhere, undepicted)

MAXIMUS [INHUMAN]
T 149/2
A 95-FB
* I:US 1 (2-30)-FB
FF 45-BTS
FF 46-BTS
{FF 47}
FF 48
* I:US 1 (32-38)
FF 52

(and also omit I:US 1 appearance between AA2 7 and A 95, later):

AA2 6
AA2 7-BTS
* FF 117-BTS
A 95

MEDUSA/MEDUSALITH AMAQUELIN [INHUMAN]
T 149/2
WI? 30/2
* I:US 1 (2-29:2)-FB
{FF 36-FB}
FF 36
FF 38
JIM 116
FF 41
FF 42
FF 43
* I:US 1 (29:4)-FB (but this may be overkill)
FF 44
FF 45
FF 46
FF 47
FF 48
* I:US 1 (32-38)-FB
FF 50

RUN2 30

TRITON [INHUMAN]
INH2 9-FB
T 150/2
T 151/2
T 152/2
* I:US 1 (2-30)-FB
{FF 45}
FF 46
FF 47
FF 48
*I:US 1 (32-38)-FB
FF 54

and maybe the Seeker?

SEEKER III
* I:US 1 (2-30)-FB
FF 46
FF 47
FF 48
* I:US 1 (32-38)-FB


Still not sure about the framing sequence.

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6281
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:36 am

Fantastic! Thanks intp!
intp wrote:FF 43
* I:US 1 (29:4)-FB (but this may be overkill)
FF 44
No overkill here, it's exactly what we're looking for. Good job!

For the present-day "now" portion, just looking at Black Bolt's chronology:


T 400
INHUMANS GRAPHIC NOVEL
DD 272
DD 274 (December 1989)
-what about here? It came out in April 1990-
NW 6 (December 1990)
XF 67 (June 1991)
XF 68
A 334
-Daron Jensen

Michael
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 1171
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:41 am

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by Michael » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:53 am

Trying to find a gap for the Inhumans to appear is complicated, since Gorgon, Karnak and Medusa are on Earth from DD 272 to DD 283 and Quicksilver is on Earth from AWC 56 to AWC 70, at which point he leaves and then shows up in X-Factor.

intp
Hero
Hero
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:52 pm

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by intp » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:20 pm

One other very minor point-- I was reviewing the old FF issues, and Lockjaw is not seen in FF # 48; he is last seen (as far as I can tell) in FF # 47, pg. 11, shortly after teleporting the Royal Family to the Great Refuge in the Himalayas. He might be lurking around somewhere (undepicted) in # 48, and it seems doubtful that he would have just left his masters on his own, but it's also possible that he split some time before FF # 48. He doesn't return until # 55 (where he meets up with Johnny and Wyatt, on the outside), with no explanation as to why he is alone, and why he didn't transport any of the rest of the Royal Family with him. If he couldn't teleport through the negative barrier (which would probably be the best explanation for why he didn't take anyone with him, or why he didn't just go back), then it seems likely he did split before Maximus created the barrier; however, this could have occurred early on in FF # 48 (undepicted), before a crazed Maximus creates the 'negative barrier' on pg. 5-6.

I guess I'm wondering if Lockjaw's appearance in FF # 48 should perhaps be omitted? Or he could have escaped (undepicted) during the "few more seconds" that it took the negative barrier to solidify (pg. 5), during which Reed and the others beat a hasty exit.

Edit: I guess the easiest thing to do would be to not bother and just leave Lockjaw's appearance in FF 48, since he very well might have been lurking around somewhere, undepicted. Seems like it could go either way.

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6281
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:23 pm

Michael wrote:Trying to find a gap for the Inhumans to appear is complicated, since Gorgon, Karnak and Medusa are on Earth from DD 272 to DD 283 and Quicksilver is on Earth from AWC 56 to AWC 70, at which point he leaves and then shows up in X-Factor.
How about before DD 272, then?
intp wrote:Lockjaw is not seen in FF # 48
If Lockjaw doesn't appear on panel in FF 48 than it should be removed from his chronology.

A case could be made to add FF 48-BTS to Lockjaw's chronology, but as you say, he could have left either before or during FF 48. Since we don't know, I'd say just leave FF 48 out all together.
-Daron Jensen

intp
Hero
Hero
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:52 pm

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by intp » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:02 pm

I just realized that I've been mistakenly referring to the book as "Inhumans: the Untold Story", whereas the actual title is "Inhumans The Untold Saga" on the front cover (although I guess the abbreviation "I:US 1" would apply to either). On the first page indicia, the book is referred to as "INHUMANS SPECIAL Vol. 1, No. 1, April 1990 issue."

intp
Hero
Hero
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:52 pm

Re: Inhuman appearances in FF # 117 and I:US 1

Post by intp » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:00 am

Coincidentally, I noticed that Amazon has announced the release of a Tpb, "Inhumans: Right of Birth" in November 2013, that reprints "The Untold Saga" along with an Ann Nocenti graphic novel (I believe this will be the first time the former has ever been reprinted?) Not sure if I'll pick it up since I already have the former, but its availability will help spread knowledge of this obscure story.

I haven't read the Nocenti GN but I wasn't a huge fan of her Daredevil run, although I do think it had moments.

Locked