Age of Ultron timelines

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Age of Ultron timelines

Post by DonCampbell » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:55 am

It has taken me a while but I've noticed a few significant details that should be mentioned with regards to [Age of Ultron #10].

First, see here.

Second, I feel that special notice should be given to those six characters who are shown reacting to the breaking of the space-time continuum. Of those six, four (Wolverine, Iron Man, Star-Lord, and Pym) are apparently in the present-day of Reality-616 when they experience the effect. The fifth is the Ultimate Spider-Man who is in his alternate universe when the effect hits him but, oddly, the event isn't mentioned in his thought balloons only a few pages later. And the sixth, the most interesting of the group, is the Thing but during that time in the late 16th Century when he was briefly disguised as the pirate Blackbeard waaay back in Fantastic Four #5 (1962).

Third, there is a slight continuity glitch with Stark being shown experiencing the breakage while on Earth since Guardians of the Galaxy #5 reveals that Star-Lord experienced the effect a few days earlier, between issues 4 & 5, and the GOTG series makes it clear that Stark hasn't yet been back to Earth since being removed from the planet between GOTG #2 & 3. Also, in GOTG #5, Star-Lord states that Drax was with him hunting down some Badoon when the hiccup occurred and that Drax saw "lightning" but not the time distortions. However, the relevant panel in this issue shows Star-Lord fighting Badoon alongside Groot and Rocket Raccoon. Of course, I suppose that Drax could just be off-panel in that fight scene.

Fourth, there are two individuals who are conspicuously absent from this newly-altered timeline: Wolverine and the Invisible Woman. Previous issues have shown that, after they went back in time and killed Henry Pym, Logan and Sue returned to a new present-day reality (Age of Morgana Le Fey) in which counterparts of themselves already existed. "Dr. Sue Richards" had been away from Earth for quite some time but the other Wolverine was still there. So, when Logan went back a second time and changed what his past self had previously done, he and Sue returned to a "restored" present which was actually just as much a new reality as the previous one was. So, where were their counterparts, the Wolverine and Invisible Woman of this new reality?

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Last edited by Somebody on Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Topic split from "Age of Ultron v1 #10" in Character Watches, per CW rules

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Re: Age of Ultron v1 #10

Post by Leoparis » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:10 am

I have a hard time following.
Let's name those realities for convenience.
There is the 616 reality
the age of Ultron reality
the age of Morgana LeFay reality

The Wolverine and Invisible Woman from Age of Ultron travel in the past (of the Age of Morgana reality where they have counterparts), kill Pym and cause the Age of Morgana reality, wind up in the future of this reality (where their counterparts kept existing), travel back to prevent the killing. Wolverine kills his older self (so the Age of Ultron Wolverine is dead and his slightly younger self is bound to disappear upon returning to the Age of Ultron timeline)
Which new versions do you expect? The versions from 616 kept having their own adventures from Avengers #12 to Marvel NOW as recorded in non AU Marvel comics.

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Re: Age of Ultron v1 #10

Post by DonCampbell » Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:54 am

Leoparis wrote:I have a hard time following.
Let's name those realities for convenience.
There is the 616 reality
the age of Ultron reality
the age of Morgana LeFay reality

The Wolverine and Invisible Woman from Age of Ultron travel in the past (of the Age of Morgana reality where they have counterparts), kill Pym and cause the Age of Morgana reality, wind up in the future of this reality (where their counterparts kept existing), travel back to prevent the killing. Wolverine kills his older self (so the Age of Ultron Wolverine is dead and his slightly younger self is bound to disappear upon returning to the Age of Ultron timeline)
Which new versions do you expect? The versions from 616 kept having their own adventures from Avengers #12 to Marvel NOW as recorded in non AU Marvel comics.
Okay, here's how I see the situation. Years ago, the late, great Mark Gruenwald established the official rules for time travel in the Marvel Universe. The one main rule was that any and ALL instances of time travel caused divergences to occur and as a result it was IMPOSSIBLE to travel back into the actual past of any timeline because the travellers would invariably end up in a divergent timeline created by their own travelling in time. This rule was enforced for some time but after Mr. Gruenwald died The Powers That Be at Marvel Comics came to increasingly value "creative freedom" over "continuity" and writers and editors paid less and less attention to the "official" rules.

In recent years, there have been efforts made to restore some sense of order. Dwayne McDuffie introduced the idea that yes, people could go into the actual past and make small changes without causing a divergence but any major changes would still create a divergent timeline. Later, Jeff Parker borrowed the idea of "fixed points in time" from Doctor Who. According to this theory, fixed points cannot be changed and any attempts to do so would result in a divergence. On the other hand, unfixed(?) points in time could be changed without causing divergences.

So, let's examine the situation in AGE OF ULTRON. First, over the course of the miniseries we see three different realities, as you said. Timeline #1 is Earth-616 which becomes Age of Ultron, Timeline #2 is the Age of Morgana Le Fey altered reality, and Timeline #3 is the Broken Time reality in which our Marvel characters currently reside.

In Timeline #1, there are five points in time which are significant to the storyline.
Point A1 is "Years ago" when Dr. Henry Pym first conceived of creating the Artificial Intelligence that became Ultron.
Point B1 is "Some months ago" when Ultron returned to Earth within the empty armor of a Spaceknight (A4 12.1).
Point C1 is the recent past (sometime over a week ago) when the Ultron drones attacked (from the future Point E) and the Age of Ultron began.
Point D1 is the Present when Wolverine and the Invisible Woman use Doom's time machine to go back to Point A1.
Point E1 is “Years from now” when Ultron rules the world and is using the Vision as a conduit to send Ultrons back to Point C1.

So, let's trace what happens to Logan and Susan. They live in timeline #1 through Points A1, B1, C1 and D1 and then go back in time to Point A1 where Logan kills Hank Pym. This act causes timeline #1 to be altered into timeline #2, starting with Point A2 which is Pym's murder.

Believing that they have saved their world, Logan and Susan then travel forward to their own time, emerging in the present (Point D2) where they find that the world (The Age of Morgana Le Fey) is even worse off than before. Logan meets the version of himself who exists in this timeline (call him "Logan2") and mention is made of Susan's counterpart, Dr. Sue Richards, who has been away from Earth for some time (call her "Susan2"). Eventually, despite the warnings of Tony Stark2, "our" Logan goes back in time to Point A1 to prevent his past self from turning it into Point A2. He succeeds in convincing Pym to do something to alter the future, thereby causing timeline #1.5 to be altered into timeline #3, starting at Point A3 which is Pym implanting a secret virus into Ultron and then erasing him own memory of doing so.

Now we're at Point A3 in timeline #3 and there are two Wolverines and one Invisible Woman. The younger Wolverine (wearing black) has just arrived from what was Point D1. The other Wolverine (wearing yellow) is his five-days-older self, the one who killed Pym and went to Point D2 and is now back at Point A1 changing it into Point A3. The Invisible Woman has also just arrived from Point D1 but now, thanks to Wolverine-Yellow, her trip to Point D2 never happens.

Before going BACK TO THE FUTURE, the two Wolverines decide that one of them has to die to avoid a paradox. Wolverine-Yellow decides that it has to be him because he doesn't "wanna live with it" so Wolverine-Black kills him, and then he and Susan return to the present, which is now Point D3 in timeline #3. On their way, they stop off just before Point B3 so that the Invisible Woman can secretly give Pym3 the video that his past self made for him. Thus, when Point B3 arrives and Ultron returns to Earth, Pym3 is able to provide Iron Man3 with a code that activates the virus that past-Pym3 had secretly implanted in Ultron, destroying him and preventing the Age of Ultron from happening.

So, when Logan and Susan return to the present (Point D3) they find that the Age of Ultron (C1 through D1) never happened. And then, because of all the time travelling that Wolverine did, TIME BREAKS!!!

To make a long story short (too late), when Logan1 and Susan1 went back to Point A1 and changed it into Point A2, they effectively destroyed the Age of Ultron timeline and replaced it with the Age of Morgana Le Fey reality which had its own versions of them (Logan2 and Susan2). Then, unhappy with the result, Logan1 went back in time to Point A1 again and this time he changed it into Point A3 which effectively destroyed the Age of Morgana Le Fey timeline (and all its inhabitants, including Logan2 and Susan2) and replaced it with the Broken Time reality in which the Age of Ultron never happened and so its own versions of them (Logan3 and Susan3) had no reason to time travel from Point D3.

So, when Logan1 and Susan1 exited the timestream into Timeline #3 at Point D3, there should have been a Logan3 and Susan3 already present in that reality.

That is my argument. Your idea that the younger Wolverine (whom I call Wolverine-Black) would disappear upon returning to the Age of Ultron timeline makes no sense to me because that's not what happened. Due to their adventures, Timelines #1 & 2 were erased and replaced with Timeline #3, and the time travellers who arrived in the present of Timeline #3 are Logan1 and Susan1. And as you pointed out, the versions of them who exist in the restored-but-actually-new Broken Time reality are the ones who "kept having their own adventures from Avengers #12.1 to Marvel NOW as recorded in non AU Marvel comics."

Okay, am I making any sense here? Or is it that the resolution of AoU storyline itself which doesn't make sense? You tell me.

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Re: Age of Ultron v1 #10

Post by Leoparis » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:19 pm

I didn't even try to track this over-complex demonstration because I don't agree with your premises.

I don't have any reverence for Mark Gruenwald's standardizations which not only stifled creativity but especially contradicted already extant time travel stories.

In my opinion one cannot "create" a timeline by traveling in the past (where does the energy come from to create a new universe?) If a divergence is created then it means that one travelled to a parallel universe, possibly exactly parallel and undistinguishable until the divergence.

So the three timelines have always existed and none can "disappear" due to time travel.

So Age of Ultron is a timeline where there was no interference from parallel universe travellers.
Age of Morgana is a timeline with an interference from a parallel Wolverine (Age of Ultron Wolverine)

The 616 timeline was interfered by Age of Ultron travelers (the 616 timeline never became Age of Ultron in the first place)

Since we have a recursing Wolverine it's likely we have two Age of Ultron Wolverines coming from close parallel timelines. In other words Wolverine had no reason to kill his double.

None of the Age of Ultron characters are 616 characters (none of the Age of Ultron tie-ins happened in continuity)

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Re: Age of Ultron v1 #10

Post by Leoparis » Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:03 pm

I'll try using your narrative and rewriting it to make it easier for you:

So, let's trace what happens to Logan1 and Susan1. They live in timeline #1 through Points A1, B1, C1 and D1 and then go back in time to Point A1' (on another timeline) where Logan1 kills Hank Pym2 (they don't kill the Pym1 from their timeline but from another). This act causes timeline #1' to be altered from timeline #1, starting with Point A2 which is Pym2's murder.

Believing that they have saved their world, Logan1 and Susan1 then travel forward Pym2 's future, emerging in the present (Point D2) where they find that the world (The Age of Morgana Le Fey) is even worse off than before. Logan1 meets the version of himself who exists in this timeline (call him "Logan2") and mention is made of Susan1's counterpart, Dr. Sue Richards, who has been away from Earth for some time (call her "Susan2"). Eventually, despite the warnings of Tony Stark2, Logan1 goes back in time to Point A1 to prevent a time-traveling Wolverine from turning it into Point A2 (except this time he travels to 616). He succeeds in convincing 616-Pym to do something to alter the future, thereby causing timeline 616 to occur as we saw from Avengers 12.1 to Marvel Now, starting at Point A3 which is Pym implanting a secret virus into Ultron and then erasing him own memory of doing so.

Now we're at Point A3 in 616 and there are two Wolverines and one Invisible Woman. The younger Wolverine (wearing black) has just arrived from what was Point D1. The other Wolverine (wearing yellow) is his five-days-older self, the one who killed Pym and went to Point D2 and is now back at Point A1 changing it into Point A3. The Invisible Woman has also just arrived from Point D1 but now, thanks to Wolverine-Yellow, her trip to Point D2 never happens.

Before going BACK TO THE FUTURE, the two Wolverines decide that one of them has to die to avoid a paradox (a stupid notion on his part). Wolverine-Yellow decides that it has to be him because he doesn't "wanna live with it" so Wolverine-Black kills him, and then he and Susan return to the present. On their way, they stop off just before Point B3 so that the Invisible Woman can secretly give 616-Pym the video that his past self made for him. Thus, when Point B3 arrives and Ultron returns to Earth, 616-Pym is able to provide 616-Iron Man with a code that activates the virus that past-Pym had secretly implanted in Ultron, destroying him and preventing the Age of Ultron from happening.

So, when Logan1 and Susan1 return to the present (Point D3) they wind up in some timeline where the Age of Ultron (C1 through D1) never happened. And then, because of all the interference with the 616-timeline that the Wolverines did, TIME BREAKS!!!

To make a long story short (too late), when Logan1 and Susan1 went back to Point A1 and changed it into Point A2, they made that timeline turn into the Age of Morgana Le Fey reality which had its own versions of them (Logan2 and Susan2). Then, unhappy with the result, Logan1 went back in time to Point A1 again and this time (winding up in the past of 616) he changed it into Point A3 which prevented the Age of Morgana Le Fey from occurring in the 616 timeline and caused a Broken Time reality in 616.

So, when Logan1 and Susan1 exited the timestream into Timeline #3 at Point D3, they wound up in a different universe.

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Re: Age of Ultron v1 #10

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:26 pm

DonCampbell wrote:To make a long story short (too late),
Ha! :)

I can't remember where I saw this, but I'm pretty sure that Tom Brevoort said in an interview that the reality-travelling Wolverine and Invisible Woman vanished when time went kablooey.
DonCampbell wrote:there should have been a Logan3 and Susan3 already present in that reality.
Yes, there already was when they returned; we just didn't see them on panel.

Where were the 616-Wolverine and Invisible Woman when time went kablooey? Maybe they were in the bathroom. Maybe they were having an affair. Maybe they were drunk and passed out in a ditch. Who knows?

But yes, Age of Ultron is a divergent timeline. Age of Morgan le Fey is a divergent timeline. The 616 reality is still chugging along just fine, and the Wolverine and Invisible Woman appearing in stories set after Age of Ultron are the 616-versions.
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Re: Age of Ultron v1 #10

Post by DonCampbell » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:10 pm

Leoparis wrote:I didn't even try to track this over-complex demonstration because I don't agree with your premises.

I don't have any reverence for Mark Gruenwald's standardizations which not only stifled creativity but especially contradicted already extant time travel stories.

In my opinion one cannot "create" a timeline by traveling in the past (where does the energy come from to create a new universe?) If a divergence is created then it means that one travelled to a parallel universe, possibly exactly parallel and undistinguishable until the divergence.

So the three timelines have always existed and none can "disappear" due to time travel.

So Age of Ultron is a timeline where there was no interference from parallel universe travellers.
Age of Morgana is a timeline with an interference from a parallel Wolverine (Age of Ultron Wolverine)

The 616 timeline was interfered by Age of Ultron travelers (the 616 timeline never became Age of Ultron in the first place)

Since we have a recursing Wolverine it's likely we have two Age of Ultron Wolverines coming from close parallel timelines. In other words Wolverine had no reason to kill his double.

None of the Age of Ultron characters are 616 characters (none of the Age of Ultron tie-ins happened in continuity)
Okay, let's review.

Divergence does happen in the Marvel Multiverse, and it can be caused by either internal factors (people making different decisions or random chance) or external factors (interference by time travellers). You may not like idea, but it is a fact of life in the MU.

I agree that Mark Gruenwald's view that ALL instances of time travel cause divergences is extreme. I accept the idea that most people who try to travel into the past of their reality actually end up in the past of a near-duplicate timeline instead. A good example of this appeared in issues 50 and 100 of Marvel Two-in-One. In the first story, the Thing went back in time to cure himself but when he returned to the present and found himself unchanged, Reed stated that all he had done was create a divergent timeline. one in which that Ben Grimm had been cured. Then, in the second story, Reed revealed that the Thing had actually travelled to the past of a timeline which had already diverged from Earth-616 even before the Thing arrived, a timeline in which the name of New Amsterdam had never been changed to New York. However, in recent years the idea that time travel CAN actually rewrite a timeline's history has been accepted by the Powers That Be who control the MU so it's pointless to insist that it can't happen.

While I would like to share your belief that timelines always exist and cannot disappear due to interference by time travellers, that just isn't true. In the MU, timelines can be radically altered and/or be deleted due to time travel. Why? Because that's the story that Brian Michael Bendis wrote. That's his view of how time travel works and that's the central point upon which the whole miniseries was built. I may not like it but that's what happened. And how do I know? Because, in the end, it was Wolverine's reckless time travelling that BROKE TIME ITSELF! That, in the context of the story, is PROOF that Iron Man's concerns were valid.

The Age of Ultron did begin on Earth-616, Wolverine's first attempt to avert it rewrote the history of Earth-616 so that the Age of Morgana Le Fey happened instead, and then his second attempt rewrote history again, cancelling out the Age of Morgana Le Fey and restoring a near-duplicate of Earth-616 but with a broken space/time continuum. THAT'S the story that Bendis told. You and I may not like it, but that's what happened and it ALL occurred on Earth-616.

Leoparis wrote:I'll try using your narrative and rewriting it to make it easier for you:

So, let's trace what happens to Logan1 and Susan1. They live in timeline #1 through Points A1, B1, C1 and D1 and then go back in time to Point A1' (on another timeline) where Logan1 kills Hank Pym2 (they don't kill the Pym1 from their timeline but from another). This act causes timeline #1' to be altered from timeline #1, starting with Point A2 which is Pym2's murder.

Believing that they have saved their world, Logan1 and Susan1 then travel forward Pym2 's future, emerging in the present (Point D2) where they find that the world (The Age of Morgana Le Fey) is even worse off than before. Logan1 meets the version of himself who exists in this timeline (call him "Logan2") and mention is made of Susan1's counterpart, Dr. Sue Richards, who has been away from Earth for some time (call her "Susan2"). Eventually, despite the warnings of Tony Stark2, Logan1 goes back in time to Point A1 to prevent a time-traveling Wolverine from turning it into Point A2 (except this time he travels to 616). He succeeds in convincing 616-Pym to do something to alter the future, thereby causing timeline 616 to occur as we saw from Avengers 12.1 to Marvel Now, starting at Point A3 which is Pym implanting a secret virus into Ultron and then erasing him own memory of doing so.

Now we're at Point A3 in 616 and there are two Wolverines and one Invisible Woman. The younger Wolverine (wearing black) has just arrived from what was Point D1. The other Wolverine (wearing yellow) is his five-days-older self, the one who killed Pym and went to Point D2 and is now back at Point A1 changing it into Point A3. The Invisible Woman has also just arrived from Point D1 but now, thanks to Wolverine-Yellow, her trip to Point D2 never happens.

Before going BACK TO THE FUTURE, the two Wolverines decide that one of them has to die to avoid a paradox (a stupid notion on his part). Wolverine-Yellow decides that it has to be him because he doesn't "wanna live with it" so Wolverine-Black kills him, and then he and Susan return to the present. On their way, they stop off just before Point B3 so that the Invisible Woman can secretly give 616-Pym the video that his past self made for him. Thus, when Point B3 arrives and Ultron returns to Earth, 616-Pym is able to provide 616-Iron Man with a code that activates the virus that past-Pym had secretly implanted in Ultron, destroying him and preventing the Age of Ultron from happening.

So, when Logan1 and Susan1 return to the present (Point D3) they wind up in some timeline where the Age of Ultron (C1 through D1) never happened. And then, because of all the interference with the 616-timeline that the Wolverines did, TIME BREAKS!!!

To make a long story short (too late), when Logan1 and Susan1 went back to Point A1 and changed it into Point A2, they made that timeline turn into the Age of Morgana Le Fey reality which had its own versions of them (Logan2 and Susan2). Then, unhappy with the result, Logan1 went back in time to Point A1 again and this time (winding up in the past of 616) he changed it into Point A3 which prevented the Age of Morgana Le Fey from occurring in the 616 timeline and caused a Broken Time reality in 616.

So, when Logan1 and Susan1 exited the timestream into Timeline #3 at Point D3, they wound up in a different universe.
Okay, this should be fun. Here is my response to your rewriting of my narrative:

1. Logan1 and Susan1 existed in Timeline #1 (Earth-616) and they did go back to Point A1 in their own past where they did kill Pym1, an act (Point A2) which caused Timeline #1 (Age of Ultron) to be rewritten into Timeline #2 (Age of Morgana Le Fey) but which was still Earth-616.

2. Travelling back to their own time (Point D1 rewritten into Point D2), our "heroes" find that things are even worse off (on Earth-616) than before. Logan1 eventually goes back to Point A1 again where he meets and stops his younger self from killing Pym1. The changes that Logan1 now has Pym1 make causes Timeline #2 to be rewritten into Timeline #3 (and ALL of this is STILL on Earth-616).

3. Have I missed something here? I thought that the significance of Avengers #12.1 was that it showed that Ultron had come back to Earth so that he was again an imminent threat to humanity. Was there something else?

4. I agree that the idea that one of the Wolverines had to die to prevent a paradox was a stupid notion but that's how BMB's idea of time travel/reality manipulation works.

5. So, when Logan1 and Susan1 return to the present (Point D3) they wind up in a rewritten version of Earth-616 (NOT "some timeline") where the Age of Ultron (C1 through D1) never happened.

6. Logan1 originated on Earth-616 and he always went back into the past of Earth-616 in order to rewrite the history that he wanted to avert.

7. When Logan1 and Susan1 exited the timestream into Timeline #3 at Point D3, they wound up in a rewritten version of Earth-616, NOT a different universe.

8. And since the Logan3 and Susan3 of Timeline #3 had had no reason (since Age of Ultron was averted) to travel in time in the first place, they didn't. As a result, Logan3 and Susan3 are there on Earth-616 and now so are their counterparts from Timeline #1.

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Re: Age of Ultron v1 #10

Post by DonCampbell » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:34 pm

Col_Fury wrote:I can't remember where I saw this, but I'm pretty sure that Tom Brevoort said in an interview that the reality-travelling Wolverine and Invisible Woman vanished when time went kablooey.
DonCampbell wrote:there should have been a Logan3 and Susan3 already present in that reality.
Yes, there already was when they returned; we just didn't see them on panel.

Where were the 616-Wolverine and Invisible Woman when time went kablooey? Maybe they were in the bathroom. Maybe they were having an affair. Maybe they were drunk and passed out in a ditch. Who knows?
If the reality-travelling duo really did vanish when time went kablooey, then it was sloppy storytelling to not show that happen. As it is, we last see them on top of a skyscraper being happy that they have "fixed" their world. And then THAT Wolverine gets hit by a timequake and he's one of only six characters who we're shown had that experience.
Col_Fury wrote:But yes, Age of Ultron is a divergent timeline. Age of Morgan le Fey is a divergent timeline. The 616 reality is still chugging along just fine, and the Wolverine and Invisible Woman appearing in stories set after Age of Ultron are the 616-versions.
I would VERY much like to see some support for this statement. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that you're wrong, it's just that everything that I've read has been all AAAAHHHH!!!! THIS IS REALLY HAPPENING!!!! OUR MARVEL UNIVERSE IS BEING DESTROYED!!!! HOW WILL WE EVER SURVIVE!!! Before today, on this thread, I have not read one word stating that the Age of Ultron and the Age of Morgana Le Fey were divergent timelines. Instead, everything has been about Wolverine CHANGING Earth-616's past in order to avoid the Age of Ultron and thereby breaking the space/time continuum. Maybe I missed something?

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Re: Age of Ultron v1 #10

Post by Leoparis » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:15 am

They are divergent timelines just from the fact that previous supposed "created timelines" like Age of Apocalypse and House of M actually existed on their own in later miniseries (and just recently in New Avengers we had an alternate world with a statue of Magneto replacing the statue of Liberty).
You can argue that this is not what the original writers wrote but it's what it ended upo being. And we can state right away that it's the same for Bendis. His story as told doesn't make sense but we can look at it and figure what actually happened.
Age of Ultron isn't 616. What you call timeline #1 is Age of Ultron timeline, not 616. Logan1 and Sue1 are from AoU, were never from 616. I know what Bendis thought he told and it doesn't matter. As you pointed his interpretation makes no sense. Mine does and is based on past supposedly created timelines being independently existing timelines.

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Re: Age of Ultron timelines

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:46 am

Here's how I've understood all of this, quite simply.

Age of Ultron Wolverine goes back into the past and creates divergent timeline Age of Morgana from the "mainstream" Age of Ultron reality.
Age of Morgana Wolverine goes back into the past and creates a divergent timeline -- the one we know as 616 -- from the newly created Age of Morgana reality.

Age of Ultron and 616 realities were the same until the point those time-traveling Wolverines showed up. After that point, both realities were separate, but nearly identical. The only differences between the two realities all these years were:
1) Pym created a fail-safe and made himself forget about it years ago in reality 616
2) Pym's fail-safe saves the day at the appropriate moment in recent reality 616, preventing the devastation seen in Age of Ultron.

Yes?
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Re: Age of Ultron timelines

Post by Leoparis » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:11 pm

That is correct except it's not Age of Morgana Wolverine that goes back but the same AoU Wolverine. And he doesn't create the 616 timeline of course but makes it diverge from the AoU timeline.

By the way I think one of the first Marvel stories talking about destroying timelines was the Thundra stories in the 70s Fantastic Four. In the resolution it was stated that Thundra's timeline had merged with Mahkizmo's timeline and that her original timeline didn't exist anymore, except some years later she returned to her timeline or one similar.

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Re: Age of Ultron timelines

Post by JephYork » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:29 pm

I think at least two editors have now gone on record as saying that the time-traveling Wolvie and Invisible Woman vanished, or fell into a time-crack, or something, when time broke in AOU #10. They're gone. The 616 versions are, as Fury says, still chugging along just fine, and they never traveled in time at all.

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Re: Age of Ultron timelines

Post by Leoparis » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:56 am

Apparently the Wikipedia entry states since July 24 that the story happens in two different timelines with their own designation.
"This story took place on two different Earths: The alternate Earth-616 that Ultron annihilated humanity was referred to as Earth-61112 and the alternate reality where Morgan le Fay took over half the world was referred to as Earth-26111."

I guess Marvel didn't want the readers to know in advance that this didn't happen on 616 as that would wipe the main reason to buy it.

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Russ Chappell
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Re: Age of Ultron timelines

Post by Russ Chappell » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:55 am

Leoparis wrote:The alternate Earth-616 that Ultron annihilated humanity was referred to as Earth-61112 and the alternate reality where Morgan le Fay took over half the world was referred to as Earth-26111.
Where were they "referred to as"?

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Re: Age of Ultron timelines

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:09 am

Wikipedia probably got it from the Appendix (do a "Control-F" search for "Age of Ultron").
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