The Road to Civil War

[robfj]

This is a very old topic, but ....

I'm confused about the connection between ASM#529-531 and FF#536-537 with NA:I1 #1. NA:I1 #1 covers 3 meetings of the Illuminati. All the discussion in the Forum has ASM#529-531 and FF#536-537 around the 3rd meeting. But the chronologies of Iron Man and Mr Fantastic plus the Calendar have them around the 2nd meeting. What happened?!

The connection is discussed in 2 threads ending in April 2006.

Thread 15 (Grrr! Now JMS is doing it!!!) is all about the exact time placement, within 1 or 2 days, of events that are given conflicting depictions in the source issues. But throughout it is assumed that the ASM/FF issues are connected to the 3rd meeting in NA:I, which is to do with the Superhero Registration Bill. Indeed FF#536 has a flashback page copied directly from that meeting. The ASM issues aren't that specific about the connection to NA:I, but the ASM and FF issues are connected. It is obvious that JMS *meant* the 3 things to be related in this way.

Thread 21 (Civil War: Opening Salvo) also assumes the above connection. It is more concerned with 2 other problems that may be relevant to the placing of the scenes. IM has an advance copy of the Registration Bill in NA:I but has been to Senate meeting about it in ASM/FF - it was pointed out that the Bill would have been publicly published before the Senate meetings. IM supports the Bill in NA:I but is against it in ASM/FF.

Another April-ending thread, Thread 29 (Chronology Review for Hulk vol. 3 Issue #88-91), fits the 2nd meeting in NA:I1 #1 into Hulk chronology. This meeting concerned the plan to send Hulk off into space, leading to Planet Hulk. There is quite reasonably no mention of the ASM/FF issues, which weren't anything to do with this meeting.

There is a relevant May thread, Thread 19 (Sentry #8: Am I reading this right?!?). As part of reconciling the Sentry series this repeats that ASM#529-530 surround the NA:I1 #1 3rd meeting, some time after Hulk gets sent away.

In June's Thread 8 (Deadly Genesis [DG3 & X-Men 181 SPOILERS]) there is another mention of ASM#529 segueing into NA:I1 #1's 3rd meeting.

The only suggestion I can find that maybe these issues don't fit together as described is in November's Thread 12 (Mega Morphs). As its name suggests this tries to fit the Megamorphs series into Marvel continuity. In order to do this it puts forward the idea, amongst many, that Hulk was sent to Planet Hulk after FF#537. But Megamorphs doesn't have an entry in the Key, so I guess it was decided that it isn't canonical.

All these threads are in the 2006 archive. I can't find anything relevant in later years. (And the issues were fixed in the Calendar by 2008.)



Then strangely the Chronology and Calendar have ASM#529-531 and FF#536-537 around Illuminati meeting 2 (NA:I1 #1 p14-22) to send the Hulk into space, not meeting 3 to discuss the Registration Act (NA:I1 #1 p25-32). This ignores the direct flashback reprint in FF#536 of a page from the 3rd meeting, which by this chronology hasn't happened yet.

The Chronology obviously doesn't give any explanations. But the Calendar equally obviously goes into more detail. But even here there is no explanation. Instead the entry for FF#536 omits to say that Reed's flashback to the Illuminati meeting specifically shows them discussing the Registration Bill. This allows the reader to assume that it refers to the meeting about the Hulk that gets described just beforehand. (Coincidentally the calendar does place FF#536-537 before Hulk #88-91 which send him to space. Ironically this would leave room for Megamorphs, but I don't think that's the reason for the shift.)

The Senate meeting in ASM about the Registration Bill is of course still there, along with references in FF#536, but now connected to meeting 2. This would make nonsense of IM bringing a 'leaked' copy of the Bill to the 3rd Illuminati meeting in NA:I1 #1, so the Calendar drops that bit. (Admittedly that didn't actually make sense in the original scneario either. Meeting 3 would have to occur long before the ASM/FF Senate hearing.) Instead they are described as discussing the already-passed Act, rather than the Bill to create the Act.

My guess for why the ASM/FF Registration Bill meeting issues were moved forward? To answer the other problem - to give Tony Stark time to change his views. In ASM he's against the Bill. In NA:I1 he supports it. In between in IM3 #12 he accepts it (but I can't find any mention of this in the Forum).

I don't expect every little detail to be hammered out in public in the Forum. But the major players in MCP do openly discuss things here. And this was a major revision of what appeared in the comics!

[Paul Bourcier]

Thanks for pointing this out, robfj. You're absolutely right. We need to move New Avengers: Illuminati #1 (what you're calling the third flashback) back to just before FF 536, which occurs the day after ASM 530. This also requires pushing back Incredible Hulk v3 #89-95 and FOUR 29 on the calendar.

This action will correct the fact that I have the FB on page 24 of New Avengers: Illuminati #1 after ASM 529 even though my notes say it has to occur after!

Since Thing v2 #6 (in which Spidey appears in his Stark armor 2.0) must occur after ASM 531, this rearrangement will mean that New Avengers: Illuminati #1 will need to occur before Thing v2 #6, not after Thing v2 #8. I supposed that Namor's appearance in Thing v2 #8 should occur after he split from Reed and Stark over registration in New Avengers: Illuminati #1 (14-21)-FB (what you call the second flashback), but I guess ol' Subby just couldn't say no to Ben's poker tournament.

I'm going to try shifting those Illuminati and Hulk issues to an earlier spot on the calendar, and hopefully we won't see a nasty domino effect.

Good going, robfj!

[Paul Bourcier]

My notes indicated that Iron Man must appear in New Avengers: Illuminati #1 after Iron Man v4 #12, but I'll need to retract that. Since Spider-Man appears in his Stark 2.0 armor in Iron Man v4 #7, that issue must occur after Spidey gets that armor in ASM 530. Remember that in FF 536, Reed gets home from the meeting in New Avengers: Illuminati #1 and catches a TV news report showing Stark's interview from ASM 530 of the previous day.

So Stark will need to appear in NA:I 1 sometime before IM4 7, not after IM4 12.

[Col_Fury]

To line things up with FF 536, these moves would be needed:

BLACK BOLT/BLACKANTOR BOLTAGON [INHUMAN]
…
H3 92-FB
*NA:ILLUM (move to here)
FOUR 30
TG2 8-FB
*NA:ILLUM (move from here)
BP4 18
…

DOCTOR STRANGE II/DR. STEPHEN VINCENT STRANGE/"STEPHEN SANDERS"
…
H3 92-FB
*NA:ILLUM (move to here)
FOUR 30
…
TG2 8
*NA:ILLUM (move from here)
CW 1 (18 - 19:4)
…

IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK
…
H3 92-FB
ASM 530
*NA:ILLUM (add)
ASM 531
…
IM4 12
**NA:ILLUM 1 (delete)
ASM 532 (2 - 3)-FB
…

MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS
…
H3 92-FB
ASM 530
*NA:ILLUM (move to here)
FF 536
…
IM4 12
*NA:ILLUM (move from here)
CW 1 (1 - 9)
…

SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MACKENZIE
…
NA:ILLUM (14 - 22)-FB
*NA:ILLUM (move to here)
FOUR 30
TG2 6
TG2 8-FB
TG2 8
IM4 12
*NA:ILLUM (move from here)
W3 42
…

[Paul Bourcier]

Thanks, Col_Fury. Does anyone see any negative implications to such moves? If not, we'll go ahead a change these chronologies in the MCP.

[Leoparis]

Blackantor?
Isn't it Blackagar?