Daredevil Yellow 3

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Leoparis
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Daredevil Yellow 3

Post by Leoparis »

As wonderful as they are I don't think there's a good way to match Loeb's retellings with the original stories. In the chronology DD:Y 3 and 4 haven't been broken down to interweave with DD 2 and 3 and 5 & 6 are plain missing (I guess somebody gave up). I couldn't find posts about this series except mine viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7558 where I pointed at the problems with DD:Y 2.

I took the opening sequence of DD:Y 3 (1 - 5) to echo the opening sequence of DD 2 (2 - 3:5) even though Murdock was missing in the original and the Thing broke the door instead of the window.
DD goes to the Baxter Building and fights Electro (also in DD:Y 4 (1-9), those pages are actually a flashback though this isn't readily apparent)
After being hired they celebrate that night (7-17), Murdock visits Slade (18-20), Grace comes to the office (21-22)
I take the "much later" comment on page 23 of DD:Y 3 as indicating a flashforward taking place after DD fights Electro (as told in DD 2 and DD:Y 4 (1-9)) since DD first meets the Owl (DD 3) after he fought Electro (DD 2) and not the reverse.
Then the FF fire Murdock, DD 2 (22:3-6)
Then the Owl enters the scene DD 3 and DD:Y 3 (23 - 24)

DD #3-5 and DD:Y #4-6 will require further work but that's it for DD:Y 3

DAREDEVIL/MATT MICHAEL MURDOCK
DD 2 (1 - 22:2) ~ DD:Y 3 (1-5) ~ (the fight with Electro in DD:Y 4 (1-9) also takes place here)
DD:Y 3 (6 - 22)
DD 2 (22:3-6)
DD:Y 3 (delete)
DD:Y 4 (delete)
DD 3 ~ DD:Y 3 (23 - 24), DD:Y 4 (10-22) and DD:Y 5 all take place during DD 3

NELSON, FRANKLIN P. "FOGGY"
DD 2 (1 - 22:2) ~ DD:Y 3 (1-5)
DD:Y 3 (6 - 22)
DD 2 (22:3-6)
DD:Y 3 (delete)
DD:Y 4 (delete)

PAGE, KAREN
DD 2 (1 - 22:2) ~ DD:Y 3 (1-5)
DD:Y 3 (6 - 22)
DD 2 (22:3-6)
DD:Y 3 (delete)
DD:Y 4 (delete)
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Re: Daredevil Yellow 3

Post by Col_Fury »

Hmm.
Leoparis wrote:NELSON, FRANKLIN P. "FOGGY"
DD 2 (1 - 22:2) ~ DD:Y 3 (1-5)
DD:Y 3 (6 - 22)
DD 2 (22:3-6)
DD:Y 3 (delete)
DD:Y 4 (delete)
We're not going to delete just half of the miniseries. We're either going to fit the whole thing in or none of it.

Is there an analysis for Daredevil: Yellow in the archives somewhere? I'm assuming that's where our current placements came from.
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Daredevil Yellow 3

Post by Leoparis »

As I mentioned it's a six-issue miniseries (not four) and issues five and six are missing, so one third of the miniseries is missing. And while 1 & 2 have been broken down to fit between the pages of the original comics, issues 3 & 4 also should have been interspersed instead of included wholly a a block.

I agree that they all need to get included or none but the reason I deleted DD:Y 3 and 4 is that they don't take place between DD 2 and 3 but within their pages (DD:Y 3 is now correctly included where it should). This is a temporary measure to withdraw false information until full analysis is done.
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Re: Daredevil Yellow 3

Post by Col_Fury »

Gotcha. Thanks!
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Re: Daredevil Yellow 3

Post by Col_Fury »

I've looked through the archives up to the end of 2003 and didn't find an analysis of Daredevil: Yellow.

I did find some conversations where people didn't think it would end up as canon, and then a year or so later (give or take) I found some comments that part of the mini had found its way into the listings. But I didn't find an analysis.

Daredevil: Yellow is a six issue mini, and only #1-4 have been placed. #5-6 aren't anywhere in the MCP.

Similar to Spider-Man: Blue and Hulk: Grey, there's a current day portion where Spider-Man and Hulk remember their early days, and the majority of the issues are flashbacks. Both Spider-Man and Hulk have their current day parts in their chronologies at roughly the time of publication, but Daredevil is only listed in DD:Y 1, but not listed at all for the other issues' current day parts.

Both Spider-Man: Blue and Hulk: Grey were found to be non-canon for the flashbacks. Is the same true for Daredevil: Yellow?

At the very least, Daredevil: Yellow #2-6 needs to be placed in Daredevil's chronology around the time of DD2 8 (where DD:Y 1 is currently placed). Foggy may have another -BTS appearance as well (he's listed as -BTS in #1).

I guess I'll have to pull out and read Daredevil: Yellow now.
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Re: Daredevil Yellow 3

Post by Somebody »

There's one post about DD:Y 5-6 & the framing sequence in Archive 42, but that's about it.

I think you'll have to actually read the thing. :twisted:
Paul B, Archive 42 wrote:Daredevil: Yellow #5-6
Posted by Paul Bourcier on January 29, 2004 at 17:14:49:

I notice that neither DD:Y 5 or 6 appears in character listings. I recently picked up DD:Y 6, although I still don't have DD:Y 5. Here's the suggested placement.

DD:Y 6-FB occurs the day after DD 5 and the day after that. The flashback opens with a shot of a newspaper headline about DD's defeat of the Matador from DD 5. The story ends up involving the Purple Man, who has been incarcerated since his defeat in DD2 4. Curiously, DD wears the red and yellow tights that feature one "D" on the chest, even though he had abandoned that outfit for the yellow and red costume with "DD" on the chest in DD 5. Maybe the new outfit was in the wash...

So, DD:Y 6-FB should be placed between DD 5 and 6 in the chronologies for Daredevil, Foggy Nelson, and Karen Page. It should be placed after DD 4 in Purple Man's chronology.

I also placed Daredevil in the framing sequence (narration) of DD:Y 1-6 between DD2 25 and Sweet Charity (more precisely, on March 19 before the Kang War).
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Re: Daredevil Yellow 3

Post by Col_Fury »

Well.

Daredevil: Yellow says that Matt and Foggy didn't meet or hire Karen Page until after the Fixer dies. In Daredevil #1, they hire Karen before Matt puts together his Daredevil suit and goes after the Fixer.

Daredevil: Yellow says that the Owl hires Matt and Foggy before Daredevil fights Electro. Daredevil fights Electro in DD #2 and the Owl hires them in DD #3.

Daredevil: Yellow says that Foggy tells Matt that he plans to propose to Karen for THE FIRST TIME, before Karen is kidnapped by the Owl. The Owl kidnaps Karen in DD #3 and Foggy tells Matt that he plans to propose to Karen for THE FIRST TIME in DD #5.

Daredevil: Yellow says that Daredevil fights Matador before the Purple Man. Daredevil fought Matador in DD #5 and the Purple Man in DD #4.

So, to sum up:

Daredevil: Yellow says the Fixer dies, Matt and Foggy hire Karen Page, the Owl hires Matt and Foggy, Daredevil fights Electro, Foggy plans to propose to Karen, Karen is kidnapped by the Owl, Daredevil fights Matador, Daredevil fights Purple Man.

However,

Matt and Foggy hire Karen Page (DD #1-FB), the Fixer dies (DD #1), Daredevil fights Electro (DD #2), the Owl hires Matt and Foggy and then kidnaps Karen (DD #3), Daredevil fights Purple Man (DD #4), Daredevil fights Matador and Foggy plans to propose to Karen (DD #5).

And of course, Daredevil: Yellow refers to all of these events in the order Daredevil: Yellow presents them, so it's not like we can re-arrange pages and issues of DD:Y to fit the order of events presented in DD #1-5. Also, all of these DD:Y scenes expand on the original DD issues, so it's not like we can say they're new, previously unseen adventures.

I'm REALLY not seeing any way to fit these DD:Y flashbacks in with DD #1-5. I just can't figure out a way to do it. It's really looking to me like this mini has to go the way of Spider-Man: Blue and Hulk: Grey, where the current day parts are in but the flashbacks are out due to faulty memories.

So, in the current day portion of DD:Y, Daredevil appears in #1 and #6, and he's -BTS in #2-5. Foggy's -BTS in #1 and appears in #6, and Melvin Potter appears in #6 as well. Karen died relatively recently, but not TOO recently, because Daredevil mentions that he's BEEN writing to Karen, not that he's just started.

The MCP currently has DD:Y 1 placed after DD2 8 (Karen's funeral). Paul B. says he has it after DD2 25. DD:Y 1-6 were published the same months as DD2 19-27. I'm leaning towards Paul's placement.

For the current day portions:

DAREDEVIL/MATT MICHAEL MURDOCK

DD2 8
*DD:Y 1 (move from here)
DD2 9

DD2 25
*DD:Y 1 (move to here)
*DD:Y 2-BTS
*DD:Y 3-BTS
*DD:Y 4-BTS
*DD:Y 5-BTS
*DD:Y 6
TB 57


GLADIATOR/MELVIN POTTER

DD2 8
*DD:Y 6
DD2 41


NELSON, FRANKLIN P. "FOGGY"

DD2 8
*DD:Y 1-BTS (move from here)
DD2 9

DD2 25
*DD:Y 1-BTS (move to here)
*DD:Y 6
DD2 26


And then delete every single DD:Y flashback currently in the MCP.

Thoughts?
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Re: Daredevil Yellow 3

Post by Leoparis »

I still favor my approach for Spider-Man: Blue where I identified which flashbacks are misremembrances (those don't get included in the MCP but they can get mentioned in the index-e.g. DD meets the FF in DD 2 and DD:Y 3 or DD fights Electro in DD 2 and DD:Y 4) and which are new information (to be included in the MCP).
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4500

For instance DD:Y tells us what happened to Slade after he was captured in DD 1: he went to prison, was judged then was executed. We can include those scenes with Matt and Slade.

This would take some time (I spent days on Spider-Man: Blue)

Meanwhile we can remove DD:Y for everybody
but keep DD:Y 3 & 4 for Slade.
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