A 255

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

Moderators: Paul Bourcier, Kevin W., Col_Fury, Arthur, JephYork, Somebody

Locked
Chris McCarver
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 347
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:27 pm
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

A 255

Post by Chris McCarver » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:48 pm

I'm kind of confused about this one... Black Knight, Captain America, Hercules, Scarlet Witch, Starfox, the Vision, and Wonder Man have A 255 bisected by ROM 65-66, wherein they're seen taking part in a massive superhero pile-on against the Dire Wraiths. What's making this a head-scratcher for me is that the Avengers (and attire worn by them) seen in ROM 65-66 (scans seen here: http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronoco ... 5-66.shtml) seem to suggest that ROM 65-66 should be placed earlier in the Avengers' cumulative chronology (my initial thought is between issues somewhere during A 249-252):

--Hercules appears in ROM 65 in a costume that was torn apart by the Blood Brothers in A 252. He gets a new costume (with the H-shaped chest harness) in A 256, but in the interim is wearing a pair of coveralls given by an Army supply sergeant in A 253.
--Captain Marvel (Rambeau) appears in ROM 65-66, but she's sent off to space by the Vision in A 252 and doesn't return till A 261 (she's not listed as appearing in ROM 65-66 in the MCP; was this declared an art error?).
--Wonder Man is seen in his pocketed jacket costume in ROM 65-66 from which he switched to a new outfit in A 253.
--The Vision's dialogue in ROM 65-66 is done in the rounded rectangle balloons and italic text of his android persona, which stopped being used once Vision attained a more human personality in A 254.

I understand the Black Knight's arrival at Avengers Mansion in A 252 coupled with his presence in ROM 65-66 makes a case for the current placement, but he could have just arrived at the mansion subsequent to the events of ROM 65-66, rather than this being interpreted as just following his arrival back in the U.S.

Thoughts?
chris "mac" mccarver
world's angriest creative mind
get down with the sickness at
http://www.chrismccarver.com

Michael
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 1171
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:41 am

Re: A 255

Post by Michael » Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:13 am

On the other hand, Hercules doesn't recognize the Black Knight in Avengers 254 and Dane's dialogue makes it clear that the last time they met was in Avengers 100, despite the fact that Herc and Dane seem to be fighting side by side in Rom 65-66. And Dane remarks that Jan was leader the last time he fought alongside the Avengers- she was absent in Rom 65-66.

Chris McCarver
Comic Pro
Comic Pro
Posts: 347
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:27 pm
Location: Springfield, MO
Contact:

Re: A 255

Post by Chris McCarver » Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:51 pm

Michael wrote:On the other hand, Hercules doesn't recognize the Black Knight in Avengers 254 and Dane's dialogue makes it clear that the last time they met was in Avengers 100, despite the fact that Herc and Dane seem to be fighting side by side in Rom 65-66. And Dane remarks that Jan was leader the last time he fought alongside the Avengers- she was absent in Rom 65-66.
Not to mention Dane says in A 254 he just arrived in the U.S. prior to Vision imprisoning him, and Dane's wearing his bat-winged helmet in ROM 65-66, which he doffed a while back (I unfortunately don't recall which issue that was). Add to that the fact that Dane's riding a winged horse in ROM 65 that seems to change from having feathered wings in one page to bat-like wings the next (making it tough to nail down whether Steve Ditko intended to draw Aragorn [who's been the Valkyrie's (Brunnhilde) steed from DEF 12 on] or Valinor [who had his wings mystically removed prior to this story in DRSTR2 68], neither of which are listed for appearances in ROM 65-66), and I'm starting to see why much of the Rom story's appearances seem to have been handwaved.

That said, the SuperMegaMonkey.com I linked above posits that Monica could have seen the sun blacking out from the presence of Wraithworld (she was only just beyond the edge of the solar system at the time), made haste back to Earth to deal with the Wraiths, then headed back to Sanctuary II (maybe Nebula's crew let her go as a sign of good faith before they double-crossed her), so her presence in ROM 65-66 could still be valid. I'm thinking the best split point here is between panels 3 and 4 of page 15:

A 255 (1-3): Just outside the solar system, C.M. arrives on Sanctuary II.

--(4-5:2): At the Pentagon, Raymond Sikorski deflects NORAD's demands for sanctions against the Avengers for the Vision's actions, only to receive the Vision's message of his intent to resign from Avengers leadership and submit himself for questioning.

--(5:3-15:3): The Avengers unsuccessfully try to convince the Vision not to take the heat from the NSC alone. They then get a message from C.M. aboard Sanctuary II, where C.M. learns about the Vision's ISAAC-influenced period of megalomania. While exploring the hangar deck, C.M. runs afoul of Nebula's crew, who, after a short skirmish, feed her a line about needing her help. Cap mentions that the Wasp will return from her vacation the following day, giving us nearly a full day for the events of ROM 65-66 to take place between this scene and the next.

--(15:4-20:4): The Wasp returns from her vacation to learn of recent goings-on, and the Vision and the Scarlet Witch depart for Washington.

--(20:5-22): Back on Sanctuary II, C.M. helps Nebula's crew get Sanctuary II running again, only for them to hyperspace-jump the ship (and all aboard) into another galaxy.

Therefore, for Captain America, Captain Marvel (Rambeau), the Scarlet Witch, the Vision, and Wonder Man:

[...]
A 255 (1 - 15:3)
ROM 65
ROM 66
A 255 (15:4 - 22)
[...]

And for the Black Knight, Hercules, and Starfox:

[...]
A 255 (1 - 15:3)
ROM 65
ROM 66-BTS
A 255 (15:4 - 22)
[...]
chris "mac" mccarver
world's angriest creative mind
get down with the sickness at
http://www.chrismccarver.com

Locked