The Thanos War story arc

[Chris McCarver]

Looking over the 1974 Avengers/Captain Marvel story arc involving Mar-Vell and the Avengers taking on Thanos, I noticed a bit of a incongruity regarding the chronologies of the characters appearing therein. I'd noticed (and confirmed with the books) that Lou-Ann Savannah's chronology shows her appearing in CM 27 during A 125 (which almost verbatim replicates her appearances in CM 27). The issue I encountered involves the Avengers' chronologies (Black Panther, Cap, Iron Man, Jarvis, Scarlet Witch, Vision), which have them appearing in CM 27-30 during A 119, six issues before A 125. Oddly, the Avengers Index has the following contradictory chronology listings:

For A 119 (which follows the MCP listings):
Black Panther, also in CM 27-28, CM 29-BTS, next in CA 169-171
Captain America, also in CM 27-28, CM 29-BTS, next in DEF 13-FB, CA 168-171, A 121
Iron Man, also IM 55-FB, IM 55-56, CM 27-28, CM 29-BTS, CM 30, M/FEA 12, next in DEF 13-FB, IM 57-59, IM 60-FB, IM 60-65, IM 66-FB, IM 66-67, ORDER 1-FB, PM 17
Scarlet Witch, also in CM 27-28, CM 29-BTS
Thor, next in IM 65-67
Vision, also in CM 27-28, CM 29-BTS

But for A 125 (which dispute the MCP listings, making me think this an attempt to correct a potential error but without removing the CM issues from the A 119 entry):
Black Panther, also in CM 27-28, CM 31-33, next in CM 33
Captain America, also in CM 27-28, CM 31-33, next in CM 33, GSA 1-FB
Iron Man: also in CM 27-28, CM 31-33, next in CM 33, IM 68-71, GSA 1-FB, CM 34
Scarlet Witch, also in CM 27-28, CM 31-33, next in CM 33
Swordsman, also in CM 31-33, next in CM 33
Thor, also in CM 31-33, next in CM 33, GSA 1-FB
Vision, also in CM 27-28, CM 31-33, next in CM 33, GSA 1-FB, CM 34

I'm thinking the during-A 125 placement is the correct one, not just because of Lou-Ann's placement, but due to A 125 referencing Cap's troubles with the Secret Empire and specifically CA 175, where he was exonerated but disillusioned by the experience (which, according to Cap's chronology, took place after A 119 and during A 121). This unfortunately calls a lot of the present placement into question (and invalidates the split I just did for A 119, but finding a slot-in spot for that issue was a major eye-squint as it was). Was there any reason CM 27-30 was slotted in during A 119?

[Somebody]

Ah, isn't this the one where Ye Olde Indexe took the CM arc months out of publication order for calendaric reasons...

*checks*

Yeah. Take a look at Archive #86, thread 12. Short version - during A 125 is the natural and intended placement, but Official Index/Avengers v1 #6 insisted on shoving a months long gap into things.

If the last Index volume has attempted to fix things, but a glitch has occurred, I'd still be inclined to go back to the A 125 placement.

[Chris McCarver]

Yikes.

Oh-kay... well, that having been read, we still have the matter of Lou-Ann's chronology not matching up with those of the Avengers.

If the consensus is to stick with the previous Index's postulate (which I respectfully disagree with) that the scene in A 125 (3:2-3:6) is just an unlabeled referendum flashback of CM 27, Lou-Ann's chronology having an appearance in A 125 would appear to not be needed at all and should be probably removed, since there's nothing in the scene in A 125 that wasn't covered in CM 27.

Otherwise, I feel this may be a can of worms worth re-opening.

[Col_Fury]

I haven't had a chance to look into this yet, and it will probably be a little bit before I'll have the chance.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Paul B., maybe?

[Chris McCarver]

Understood, Daron... incidentally, this came about trying to nail down the present split for A 125.

[Col_Fury]

Oh yeah, I figured.

Good job, by the way. One of the goals of this split project is to find possible problems EXACTLY like this. So thanks!

[Paul Bourcier]

I've always stuck with the placement of those CM issues during A 119. And, yes, Lou-Ann's appearance in CM 27 would be considered a revisit of CM 27 and should be stricken from her chronology. The details are outlined in Olshevsky's Avengers Index #6.

[Russ Chappell]

Lou-Ann's appearance in CM 27 would be considered a revisit of CM 27

Am I reading that right?

[Paul Bourcier]

Oops. That should read "Lou-Ann's appearance in A 125 would be considered a revisit of CM 27."

[Paul Bourcier]

The recent Avengers Index did erroneously place those issues of Captain Marvel during both A 119 and A 125. Despite the way A 125 seemed to tell the story, the true placement is during A 119.

George Olshevsky explained the placement of those Captain Marvel issues way back in the Official Index to the Avengers #6,

Under the entry for Avengers #119, Olshevsky wrote:

"Unlikely as it may seem, this story happens in two segments that take place more than five months apart. Page 1 through panel 2 page 5 occur immediately after the Avengers-Defenders team-up in May, while page 3 panel 5 occur at Halloween, at the end of October. This story has been skillfully written to cover the summerlong gap, and detailed chronological analysis of the Avengers and their crossovers into other stories is necessary to disclose it. The Avengers make numerous appearances in other stories during this interval, including -- in chronological order -- the following:

"IRON MAN #55 and 56. These stories happen a couple of days apart in mid-May and constitute the opening round of the Thanos War, Iron Man, of course, appears in both; Jarvis and the Avengers Mansion appear in #56.
...
"CAPTAIN MARVEL #27-29. By June, the Thanos War is in full swing... CAPTAIN MARVEL #25 and #26, which lead into these stories, happen sometime in May, after which Lou-Ann Savannah arrives at the Avengers Mansion in #27 to alert Captain America, Iron Man, the Vision, the Scarlet Witch, and the Black Panther to Thanos's plot... The same five Avengers and the Mansion appear in issue #28, in which the Mansion is wrecked in the battle between Captain Marvel and the Controller, and they are also behind the scenes in #29, bhuried in rubble like Rick Jones.
"CAPTAIN MARVEL #30 page 1 through panel 7 page 16. This part of the Thanos War occurs in late June or early July, two or three weeks after CAPTAIN MARVEL #29. The Avengers Mansion is at least partially restored, and the story opens with Captain Marvel and Iron Man rigging up a device to track down the escaped Controller. Jarvis is present, but the other Avengers, strangely enough, are absent. This segment of the Thanos War enmds with the reunion of Rick Jones and Lou-Ann Savannah. The arrival of the Destroyer at the Avengers Mansion, which is said to happen twelve hours later, actually happens months later, well after Halloween."

Under the entry for Avengers #125, Olshevsky wrote:

"This story happens in three segments. The first segment, from page 1 through panel 1 page 3, occurs in early December of Peter Parker's junior make-up year in college, a day or two after the Avengers and Libra return to New York from Vietnam. In the final panel of this segment, Captain America is briefed on the Avengers' mission to Vietnam.
"The second segment of this story, panel 2 page 3 through panel 2, page 5, summarizes the Thanos War stories in CAPTAIN MARVEL #27-32. The caption at the top of page 5 states that those stories all take place in the two days in between panel 1 page 3 and panel 3 page 5, but this is impossible. Those stories require much more than two days to happen, because among other things they include trips to and from Titan, crossovers into other titles, and the destruction and restoration of Avengers Mansion. The Thanos War in CAPTAIN MARVEL #25-32 must unfold in a much grander and more leisurely manner than on the frantic two-day schedule indicated. This entire segment is here treated as a flashback to CAPTAIN MARVEL #25-32, some of which took place during the long gap in the story in issue #119...and the remainder of which (from Drax the Destroyer's arrival at the Avenges Mansion at the end of CAPTAIN MARVEL #30 through CAPTAIN MARVEL #32) takes place during the two-day interval between the first and third segments of this story...."
"The third segment of this story comprises panel 3 page 5 through page 18 and overlaps with parts of the stories in CAPTAIN MARVEL #32 and 33. It takes place in early December, about two days after the first segment of this story."

Olshevesky settled the issue long ago, and Ward's Index reflected his work, as did the MCP. The recent Avengers Index got the chronology right for issue #119, but the Index writer for the entry for issue #125 ignored the MCP and the previous indexes and wrote what he saw. Unfortunately, we didn't catch this when the original Index issues went to press, and we still didn't catch it when the trade paperback was published. Ugh!