Original Sin chronology

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:12 pm

Just something quick. This week's Thunderbolts #32 shows Thor with Mjolnir. The question is: does this issue occur before Original Sin, or must it occur after OS, with the depiction of Mjolnir being an error?

The Hulk discussion ties in here. Thunderbolts #27-31 must occur before A-Bomb is turned back into Rick Jones in Hulk #6. (A-Bomb appears in Thunderbolts #29.) There's a gap of "six months" between TB2 31 and 32, during which time the T-Bolts (including Red Hulk) are imprisoned. Red Hulk also appears in Hulk #6, so this suggests that Thunderbolts #32 must occur before Hulk #6 as well.
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:39 pm

Another post-Original Sin sighting of Thor's hammer...

In a story that ties into the Orb's blasting of Uatu's eye, Original Sins #3 introduces Lineage, who hatches a plan. He implements that plan in Inhuman #2. Inhuman #4 features Thor, who...yup...has his hammer.

Also, Inhuman #4 leads into #5-6, and at the end of #6, we see Maximus holding Black Bolt captive. As noted in issue #7, this happens after Namor involved Maximus in the Cabal, so it's reasonable to conclude that Inhuman #4-7 occur after New Avengers #23.
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:00 am

Back to the good points raised about Hulk's chronology by robfj.

Yes, as far as at least SHIELD knew, the real Banner was incarcerated (and nearly lobotomized) in Avengers #28, but we know it was an alternate reality Hulk. The real Banner secretly went to work for the Illuminati. All of Hulk's appearances from that point on should be with the Illuminati; any public appearances (or at least appearances with those who know about the incarceration) would expose the ruse.

The problem is that Hulk appears with the Avengers in Captain America #22-25 and the Axis crossover, and those issues have to occur after Avengers #28 because of Steve Rogers' chronology. Steve is still Cap in Avengers issues through #34. He's aged in those Cap issues and Axis.

So that indeed raises a question about the true identity of the Hulk who appears in those Cap issues and Axis. If it's the alternate Hulk, how did he get restored and working with the Avengers? If it's Hulk-616, how/why did he get pardoned and released by SHIELD?

It's also likely that the most recent story arc in Hulk (issues #5-7, etc.) occurs after Avengers #28, given that these issues must occur after the end of the recent Thunderbolts run (see post above) and that a six-month gap exists between Thunderbolts #31 and 32. That's probably not a real problem, given that Banner doesn't cross paths with anyone involved in "his" incarceration in those Hulk issues.

Moving away from Hulk...I'm glad robfj brought up Stark's bandages in New Avengers #18 and linked them to the injuries Stark sustained in Avengers #30. I hadn't noticed that. Given that Stark is not seen with bandages in other stories, that should make New Avengers #18 Stark's next appearance after Avengers #30.

Now speaking of bandages, I've seen Hawkeye here and there with a nose bandage. I know that comes from events in his own comic, but I haven't been collecting that series. Has anyone sussed out a recent chronology for Hawkeye?
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:59 am

More Hulk observations:

The Hulk shown in Cap #22-25 and Avengers & X-Men: Axis #1 is intelligent. In Axis #1, Red Onslaught's hate wave affects Hulk and he turns on Iron Man, saying "You did this to me?" Red Onslaught tells him, "You know the truth now -- he's the one who cursed you to this existence." Hulk tells Stark, "You think I'm going to forget what you did?!...Everything, all of my pain --this is your fault, Stark!"

At first, I thought this scene was referring to Stark's hand in creating the Hulk, as shown during Original Sin. But wait..."You know the truth now" could be interpreted the following way -- Red Onslaught's telepathy awakened a memory in Hulk. Remember that Stark was responsible for putting the alternate Hulk in a SHIELD prison in a nearly lobotomized state, passing him off as Hulk-616. Could Stark have arranged for the restoration of alternate Hulk's intelligence with no memory of his true identity and for Hulk's reinstatement as an Avenger? (His reason for doing such a thing is beyond me.)

What I find interesting is that, judging by dialog, this Hulk is dumb in Avengers & X-Men #4. Hmm. With alternate Hulk aware of his true identity, could Stark have removed that memory and intelligence sometime between Axis #1 and #4 -- maybe during Axis #1 (between pages 15-16)? Hulk has no dialog in the later pages of Axis #1 or in Axis #2-3, so we don't know if he's smart or dumb there.

Wacky theory -- The Hulk who has appeared with the Avengers after Avengers #28 is the alternate Hulk, manipulated by Stark. Hulk-616 has been sequestered with the Illuminati ever since, except for his mission to remove gamma powers from other people in Hulk #5 on. I notice that he hasn't targeted She-Hulk yet. Hmm, maybe because doing so would tip the Avengers off?

Also, does it make sense to track Hulk's haircut through all his recent appearances, or are we likely to see inconsistency there that won't inform a chronology? It's the standard haircut in the above comics.
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:24 am

Avengers & X-Men: Axis #4 has another Kluh that the Avengers' Hulk isn't what he seemed...
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Somebody » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:14 am

Isn't that all Inversion crap? Pacifist Dumb Hulk is inverted Doc Green, Kluh is inverted Banner.

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:45 pm

Oh yeah...inversion. Like Carnage becoming a good guy, right?
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Somebody » Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:26 pm

Paul Bourcier wrote:Oh yeah...inversion.
...
Paul Bourcier wrote:Like Carnage becoming a good guy, right?
Right.

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by WayneLW » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:54 am

Hi,

I don't know whether or not this is useful, but I just picked up the Original Sin hardcover, and in it, in the panel in which Thor was standing around holding his hammer in Original Sin # 8, Thor has been edited out.

Cheers,

Wayne

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:57 am

Hmm. Very interesting...
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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Leoparis » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:15 pm

New Avengers #27 provided a possible explanation for Thor appearing with a hammer that looks like Mjolnir after he became unworthy.

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by Somebody » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:06 pm

...which is?

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by milamber » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:35 am

In Avengers #27 Alternate Thor lost Alternate Mjolnir, which could be wielded by an unworthy person. Thor-616 took that hammer and is now using it.

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by robfj » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:52 pm

Coincidentally in New Avengers #27 the 8-month-future Thor discards Jarnbjorn and pulls a hammer from a sheath on his back. It's the hammer of Thorr, the alternate, which once again clearly says it can be wielded by whoever is unworthy.

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Re: Original Sin chronology

Post by robfj » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:15 pm

Oops! I realise I've just restated the contents of milamber's last 2 posts. I misread his 1st 1 and thought they both referred to *Avengers* #27. (It's those coincidental issue numbers.) But it also means I was crediting him with a brilliant deduction/no-prize suggestion based on Av#27 alone.

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