Flashbacks in XU2 9

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Chris McCarver
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Flashbacks in XU2 9

Post by Chris McCarver » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:05 pm

Need some help placing (or identifying as RFBs) a number of flashbacks in XU2 9 (all from the first story)...

1:3 - Wolverine, in his brown costume, is being eaten by a dinosaur while a T-rex watches. Guessing the Savage Land as a locale?

1:4 - A sword sticking out of his shoulder, Wolverine fights ninjas wearing white garb with straw hats. Minimal background, and Logan's wearing something light green and loose-fitting. Can't tell if it's a kimono or just a loose shirt.

1:5 - Wolverine (brown costume) runs from horses he just saved from poachers. Minimal background.

2:1 - A female character goes full-blown Phoenix mode, but I can't tell who it is or (if it's supposed to be Jean Grey) what costume she's wearing. No background.

2:2 - Wolverine (brown costume) howls in pain as his lower body is engulfed in flames. No background; could continue from the previous one.

2:4 - Colossus fastball-specials Wolverine at a Sentinel only for Wolvie to get palm-beamed into skeletal remains. Logan's wearing one of his classic costumes but it isn't clear which one.

3:1 - Wolverine (brown costume) fights Nazis in a WWII-seeming battlefield. Time-travel story?

3:3 - Wolverine (brown costume) claw-punches a robot (it’s largely off panel, so I can't ID it). Narration says this takes place on the moon.

4:1 - Wolverine (in civvies including a shredded white wife-beater) lies unconscious with Sabretooth standing over him. Snowy wilderness background.

4:2 - Wolverine (brown costume) has something long and metallic jabbed into his shoulder by a shadowed character with two others watching. Don’t recognize any of the three other characters, but one could be Bloodscream.

6:2-10: Logan remembers acting as corner for a friend of his, Johnny, for a boxing match at a bar. After Johnny’s victory, a pair of bar patrons confront Logan and Johnny at gunpoint, claiming the fight was fixed. Johnny instinctively moves in front of Logan and gets shot. After Logan pops claws and hands out bloody justice, he chastises Johnny for covering him when his healing factor would’ve handled the bullet, but Johnny only replies it’s just what Logan would have done for him. The narration on page 11 states that the shooting crippled Johnny and that he walked with a cane for indeterminate amount of time before his death, and that his significant other, Grace, convinced him to give up fighting, so I’m thinking this is a bit far back, but not too far back, since Logan mentions that Johnny loved hearing his stories of his superheroic exploits, so whatever the most recent of the flashbacks are listed above, I’m betting it takes place no earlier than that.

Any ideas, guys?
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Re: Flashbacks in XU2 9

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:07 am

Oh, boy.

Did brown-suit Wolverine and Colossus fight Sentinels in M/SH3 #-something?

Could Phoenix be Rachel, around the time Wolverine stabbed her in the chest, circa early-200s Uncanny?

When did brown-suit Wolverine go to the Savage Land?

When did brown-suit Wolverine fight Nazis? (yes, the narration says Nazis) That HAS to be a time-travel story.

Cripes. Anyone else?
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Re: Flashbacks in XU2 9

Post by Michael » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:43 pm

Chris McCarver wrote:
2:4 - Colossus fastball-specials Wolverine at a Sentinel only for Wolvie to get palm-beamed into skeletal remains. Logan's wearing one of his classic costumes but it isn't clear which one.
Uncanny X-Men 142
Chris McCarver wrote:3:1 - Wolverine (brown costume) fights Nazis in a WWII-seeming battlefield. Time-travel story?
In W2 35-37, Wolverine time travels back to the Spanish Civil War and fights Nazis.
Chris McCarver wrote:
4:1 - Wolverine (in civvies including a shredded white wife-beater) lies unconscious with Sabretooth standing over him. Snowy wilderness background.
Maybe the flashback in W2 10?

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Re: Flashbacks in XU2 9

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:33 pm

Michael wrote:
Chris McCarver wrote:2:4 - Colossus fastball-specials Wolverine at a Sentinel only for Wolvie to get palm-beamed into skeletal remains. Logan's wearing one of his classic costumes but it isn't clear which one.
Uncanny X-Men 142
I'm sure that's the event XU2 9 intended, but the scene is from the future of Days of Future Past; there's no way the regular Marvel Universe Wolverine could remember that scene because it didn't happen to HIM. It happened to the DoFP Wolverine.
Michael wrote:
Chris McCarver wrote:3:1 - Wolverine (brown costume) fights Nazis in a WWII-seeming battlefield. Time-travel story?
In W2 35-37, Wolverine time travels back to the Spanish Civil War and fights Nazis.
Oh! We'll have to ignore that Wolverine's wearing his costume in this flashback, but I'm fine with that.
Michael wrote:
Chris McCarver wrote:4:1 - Wolverine (in civvies including a shredded white wife-beater) lies unconscious with Sabretooth standing over him. Snowy wilderness background.
Maybe the flashback in W2 10?
We'll have to ignore that Sabretooth's in costume, but I'm fine with that, too.
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Re: Flashbacks in XU2 9

Post by Jason Doty » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:20 am

If the scenes don't match what we have previously seen. Wouldn't that be new material, that happened on a different occasion? Why attribute them to where they don't match up. I know it's nice to, but I don't recall Wolverine being hit by a stampede. I looked at the issue and most are pretty vague.

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Re: Flashbacks in XU2 9

Post by Somebody » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:50 am

If they're misrememberances/a case of unreliable narrator, they shouldn't be in. If Wolverine's remembering himself in-costume in relation to an event he was in civvies for, then that is not an accurate representation of that event and it's non-canon.

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Re: Flashbacks in XU2 9

Post by Jason Doty » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:54 pm

If Wolverine's remembering himself in-costume in relation to an event he was in civvies for, then that is not an accurate representation of that event and it's non-canon.
If a scene shows us Wolverine and Colossus fighting a Sentinel and we have not seen this particular battle, and the caption reads "We fought Sentinels." We are not bound to connect this scene to any of the battles that already happened. It's new information, is canon, and should be treated as such. Finding the best spot per the clues.

If the scene shows us Wolverine getting eaten by a T-Rex and we didn't see it happen on panel in another comic, but you want to attribute it to a time they were in the Savage Land, fine, but it's still a new scene and should be treated as such.

All of the scenes are vague, and if they don't reference a particular battle, then they could have happened on a different occasion.

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Re: Flashbacks in XU2 9

Post by Chris McCarver » Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:02 pm

What's the protocol for flashbacks like this that have new material but next to no chronological clues as to where they'd fit? Educated guess?
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Re: Flashbacks in XU2 9

Post by Russ Chappell » Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:42 pm

In the hypothetical case of a true absence of chronological clues, the protocol is to place the flashback as recently as possible. And by "as recently", we mean "as near to the contemporaneous events of the story".

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Re: Flashbacks in XU2 9

Post by Chris McCarver » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:58 am

Okay, taking a look at the flashbacks a bit more closely...

1:3: There's a moment in UX@ 13 (currently in storage on my end and otherwise inaccessible) where Wolverine and Dazzler are in the Savage Land and the pair split up, with the story focusing on Dazzler up until she gets captured by the Serpent Society and Logan appears to rescue her. Maybe this happened while the camera was off Wolverine? I'd thought about the time Logan got eaten by the T-rex in W:JD, but he was sporting just a loincloth at the time.

1:4: I found the following image from W '99 (which I don't have access to): http://www.fumettando.it/news_fumetti/i ... verine.jpg. Since the ninjas Logan's fighting in the flashback are wearing attire close to some of those he's fighting in this shot, maybe it's from this story?

1:5: I'm thinking this is set during the Outback era, since the background looks vaguely like the Outback, Logan's in the brown outfit, and horse poaching has been a thing in Australia. Thinking it's just before Logan leaves on his mission to Tierra Verde in UX 246, since he doesn't return until the Reavers have already retaken their Australian base.

2:1: Maybe a PFB of the Phoenix Force emerging in Jean's form in UX 101?

2:2: Batting zero on finding any time Wolverine was near-immolated prior to W2 50 (when he switched back to his yellow costume).

2:4 - Colossus is shirtless in this pic, so there's a good chance this is also an Outback-era story (since Peter was sporting a shirtless costume then). The X-books were largely Sentinel-free around this time period, so this might be an unrecorded battle. Leaning towards placing this also pre-UX 246 along with 1:5.

3:1 - The Wolverine Index says that W2 36 ends with Wolverine putting his costume on and attacking the Nazis... could this one be right afterwards or concurrent?

3:3 - I looked through UX 137 thinking this was Wolverine punching Warstar during the battle between the X-Men and the Imperial Guard on the moon, but no such strike is seen in the fight. So probably never before seen here, probably between 17:2 and 17:3. May have to handwave the costume he's sporting here.

4:1 - Batting zero finding anything apart from W2 10 where Creed has Logan in this position in this kind of environment.

4:2 - Looking through the Wolverine Index, I came across W2 123 (don't have access to this ish), where Roughouse and Bloodscream capture and torture Wolverine. Maybe close to or concurrent?

6:2-10: The most recent of the flashbacks is the one I'm thinking is analogous to W '99, so I'm thinking of placing this big one after that story, since the narration suggests that Johnny lived a while after his being shot before his funeral in the main story.

Whaddaya think, sirs?
chris "mac" mccarver
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