Spider-Man Family v2 8

Here's where you report issue analyses of any issue in any universe or timeline.

Moderators: Paul Bourcier, Kevin W., Col_Fury, Arthur, JephYork, Somebody

Locked
User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6308
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:49 am

Spider-Man Family v2 8
June, 2008

Appearances:
Spider-Man(Peter Parker), Iron Man(Tony Stark), Jim Rhodes(War Machine), Arsenal Robots

Synopsis:
Pg1-pg22
Two step brothers hack the internet to find cool games and unwittingly activate Howard Stark’s Arsenal Robot. Meanwhile, Tony chats with Jim Rhodes while he builds a new suit of armor.(basically Hulkbuster armor… you know, really big armor) Elsewhere, Peter parker leads a class at Empire State University when Arsenal attacks. He changes into Spider-Man and fights the robot. Tony hears about it and changes into Iron Man, and goes to help Spider-Man out. An army of Arsenal Robots arrive so Iron Man changes into his new armor and together they defeat the robots. Iron Man & Spider-Man track the signal back to the step brothers and give them a stern talking to.

References:
Iron Man is wearing his modular armor here, placing this sometime between Iron Man 290 & 318.

Peter is at Empire State University.

Iron Man says that he has dealt with an earlier version of Arsenal once before, placing this after Iron Man 114 & Avengers Annual 9, and before Avengers: the Crossing. The Arsenal Robot did appear in Hulk 282, and even though Iron Man was present, the Hulk dealt with the robot that time.

Spider-Man Family v2 8/2

Appearances:
Spider-Man(Peter Parker), Iceman(Bobby Drake), Thing(Ben Grimm), Gwen Stacey, Bobby’s date

Synopsis:
Pg1-pg10
Pete tries to make reservations at a new restaurant in town, but there’s only one table left and it’s first come first serve. He runs into Bobby Drake on the street, who also wants to go to the new restaurant; the race is on! Booby ices up and grabs his date while Spider-Man tries to swing across town, but Bobby ices his hands. Pete catches the train to pick up Gwen, and the two pairs arrive at the same time to discover they’ve been beaten by the Thing.

References:
It’s Gwen’s birthday.

Dialogue and a footnote tells us it’s been like… FOREVER since Marvel Team-Up #4.(volume 1, the issue with Morbius and the X-Men)

Spider-Man Family v2 8/3
Reprints Venom: Lethal Protector #2.

Spider-Man Family v2 8/4
Reprints Spider-Man: Death & Destiny #2.

Spider-Man Family v2 8/5
Reprints some Spider-Man J.

Some placement suggestions:

IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK

IC 6
*SMF2 8
A:TO 1


SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER

M/TU 11
*SMF2 8/2
ASM 119

IC 6
*SMF2 8
ASM 381


WAR MACHINE/JAMES R. "JIM" "RHODEY" RHODES

N 41
*SMF2 8
A:TO 1


ICEMAN/ROBERT "BOBBY" DRAKE

A 111
*SMF2 8/2
CA 173-FB


THING/BENJAMIN J. GRIMM

FF 133
*SMF2 8/2
LCHFH 9


STACY, GWEN

ASM 118
*SMF2 8/2
MARVELS 4 (21 - 28)
-Daron Jensen

newtron
Hero
Hero
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:42 am
Contact:

Re: Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by newtron » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:34 pm

Col_Fury wrote:Spider-Man Family v2 8/2

Appearances:
Spider-Man(Peter Parker), Iceman(Bobby Drake), Thing(Ben Grimm), Gwen Stacey, Bobby’s date

Synopsis:
Pg1-pg10
Pete tries to make reservations at a new restaurant in town, but there’s only one table left and it’s first come first serve. He runs into Bobby Drake on the street, who also wants to go to the new restaurant; the race is on! Booby ices up and grabs his date while Spider-Man tries to swing across town, but Bobby ices his hands. Pete catches the train to pick up Gwen, and the two pairs arrive at the same time to discover they’ve been beaten by the Thing.

References:
It’s Gwen’s birthday.

Dialogue and a footnote tells us it’s been like… FOREVER since Marvel Team-Up #4.(volume 1, the issue with Morbius and the X-Men)
I just read this and I'm not sure it can be canon, as I think Peter and Bobby shouldn't know each other's secret identities at this point.
the spider-man project: http://spiderman.whiskeyclone.net

Paul Bourcier
Director
Director
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 am
Location: Florida

Re: Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:42 pm

That secret identity thing is definitely a problem.

If the story in SMF2 8/2 is canonical, I wonder if the "forever"-since-M/TU 4 statement could be facetious. This story occurs on Gwen's birthday. Gwen celebrated a birthday in ASM 87, which takes place in late October of Year 5. According to the Marvel Indexes, M/TU 4 occurs during the October of the next year (Year 6). Also according to the Indexes, ASM 141-142 take place during October of the year after that (Year 7). ASM 141-142 postdate Gwen's death in ASM 122. So from a calendar perspective, SM2 8/2 would need to take place shortly after M/TU 4 during that same month.

If that identity issue can be resolved and "forever" can be reinterpreted, I'd place Spidey here between ASM 107 and M/TU 5, Gwen here during the gap in ASM 107, Iceman here between M/TU 4 and A 111-FB, and Thing here between H2 153 and M/TU 6. I don't believe such a placement is a problem in the chronology of Peter and Gwen's roller-coaster relationship.
Paul B.

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6308
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:15 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:If the story in SMF2 8/2 is canonical, I wonder if the "forever"-since-M/TU 4 statement could be facetious.
Sure, it could be.

Pete did know Bobby's ID, it's Bobby knowing Pete's that's tricky.

Peter didn't interact with the X-Men in M/TU 4, only Spider-Man did. However, the entire time the X-Men are in their street clothes screaming their regular names at each other.(Professor X scanned Spider-Man's mind in M/TU 4, so it would be safe to say HE knows that Pete is Spider-Man. I don't know how likely it is that he shared that information with the rest of the X-Men, though) Later in PPTSS 17 & 18, Peter still knows that Bobby is Iceman, backed up by a footnote referring to M/TU 4, but for some reason Warren doesn't remember that Spider-Man knows who all the X-Men are. :? Later still in ASM 282 there's no mention that Spider-Man knows X-Factor's IDs, but he does recognize that they're all former X-Men. In both PPTSSM 18 & ASM 282, Spider-Man & Iceman end up chatting by themselves, away from everyone else. This would only suggest that Spider-Man feels more comfortable around Iceman compared to everyone else, but I don't think it necessarily lends itself to Bobby knowing who Pete is.

In SMF2 8/2, we have a story with Bobby and Pete chatting about an adventure Iceman and Spider-Man had. Is there an issue later where it's shown Iceman discovering Spider-Man's identity? Meaning, is there an issue that prevents Bobby from knowing who Peter is here, before Gwen dies, because he discovers it later? Or are we assuming Iceman didn't know, because there has been no evidence until now that he did?

I was going to toss in something about them being Amazing Friends, but I was too lazy to come up with something clever. :)
-Daron Jensen

User avatar
Somebody
Director
Director
Posts: 3035
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by Somebody » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:45 am

Col_Fury wrote:I was going to toss in something about them being Amazing Friends, but I was too lazy to come up with something clever. :)
Actually, now you mention it, didn't Spider-Man Family: Amazing Friends (the first of the SMF one-shots, before they started numbering them) have Bobby not knowing Pete's ID in the lead (set in the early 90s) story?

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6308
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:27 pm

The issue opens with Spider-Man and Iceman catching up; Iceman's moved back to Westchester and Spider-Man got married. They don't call each other by their real names, but they're out in public every time we see them together. I don't see anything that says outright they don't know each other's IDs.
-Daron Jensen

JephYork
Director
Director
Posts: 4613
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:10 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by JephYork » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:35 pm

Hah -- in the time it took me to read this thread, go get the issue and check it out, Col_Fury beat me to the answer. Bah! :-)

I guess all I can add is that "Amazing Friends" was the *second* Spider-Man Family one-shot, not the first.

-Jeph!

User avatar
Somebody
Director
Director
Posts: 3035
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by Somebody » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:23 pm

Well, since I've got you both rushing to your comics :), here's the complete list AFAICS of issues which are in both Spidey & Iceman's listings without a qualification (page ranges, etc) to make it obvious they don't meet on-panel. Some are obvious cameos (e.g., A 3, COC 1, ORDER 5) or have been covered in this thread, and they won't necessarily meet on-panel in all of them, but I've not cut any for completeness:
A 3
ASM@ 1
UTSM 21
UTSM '97
FF 36
FF@ 3
M/H&L '96
UX 27
ST 156
UX 35
A 60
SUB-M 14
ASM 92
M/TU 4
M/TU 23
M/TE 13
PPTSS 17
PPTSS 18
COC 1
H2 279
SUB-M2 3
ASM 282
M/FAN 32
SMF:AF
WOSM 75
IW 1
IW 2
WM2 13
IW 3
MTW 2
PPTSS 197
PPTSS 198
PPTSS 199
IC 1 [SM only: ~ WOSM 104]
IC 2 [SM only: ~ WOSM 104 ~ DRSTR3 55]
WOSM 105 [SM only: ~ MK3 57]
IC 6
UX 337
ASM2 3
PPSM2 3 [& -FB]
ORDER 5
I can check some of these for myself to see if they make this story untenable or not, but not for a couple of days

metaldragon
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 669
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by metaldragon » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:46 pm

Col_Fury wrote:
Paul Bourcier wrote:If the story in SMF2 8/2 is canonical, I wonder if the "forever"-since-M/TU 4 statement could be facetious.
Sure, it could be.

Pete did know Bobby's ID, it's Bobby knowing Pete's that's tricky.

Peter didn't interact with the X-Men in M/TU 4, only Spider-Man did. However, the entire time the X-Men are in their street clothes screaming their regular names at each other.(Professor X scanned Spider-Man's mind in M/TU 4, so it would be safe to say HE knows that Pete is Spider-Man. I don't know how likely it is that he shared that information with the rest of the X-Men, though) Later in PPTSS 17 & 18, Peter still knows that Bobby is Iceman, backed up by a footnote referring to M/TU 4, but for some reason Warren doesn't remember that Spider-Man knows who all the X-Men are. :? Later still in ASM 282 there's no mention that Spider-Man knows X-Factor's IDs, but he does recognize that they're all former X-Men. In both PPTSSM 18 & ASM 282, Spider-Man & Iceman end up chatting by themselves, away from everyone else. This would only suggest that Spider-Man feels more comfortable around Iceman compared to everyone else, but I don't think it necessarily lends itself to Bobby knowing who Pete is.

In SMF2 8/2, we have a story with Bobby and Pete chatting about an adventure Iceman and Spider-Man had. Is there an issue later where it's shown Iceman discovering Spider-Man's identity? Meaning, is there an issue that prevents Bobby from knowing who Peter is here, before Gwen dies, because he discovers it later? Or are we assuming Iceman didn't know, because there has been no evidence until now that he did?

I was going to toss in something about them being Amazing Friends, but I was too lazy to come up with something clever. :)
Well, there is ASM 92 where they teamed up but they didn't reveal their secret identities to each other there. All I can think of is if Parker had been taking pictures of Spider-Man in action with Iceman and Bobby read the Bugle article, it's possible he could put 1+1 together and connect Parker the photographer with Spider-Man that way.

Speaking of ASM 92... Bobby is shown dating a dark haired young woman in that issue. What does the date look like in this issue?
"May the Light shine forever!"

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6308
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:22 pm

metaldragon wrote:Speaking of ASM 92... Bobby is shown dating a dark haired young woman in that issue. What does the date look like in this issue?
She had short reddish-blonde hair. Bobby's a player! :)

And that's a good point on ASM 92.
-Daron Jensen

newtron
Hero
Hero
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:42 am
Contact:

Re: Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by newtron » Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:30 pm

some of their appearances:

A 3 - no interaction
ASM@ 1 - no interaction

UTSM 21 - first meeting? clearly don't know each other

UTSM '97 - no interaction
FF 36 - no interaction
FF@ 3 - no interaction
M/H&L '96 - no interaction

UX 27 - Only refer to each other by hero names, though they are in public. To support metaldragon's theory, though, Iceman specifically wonders why Spidey was taking pictures of some hoods he'd captured.

ST 156 - no interaction

UX 35 - Fairly private setting, only call each other by hero names. Iceman clearly doesn't know Spidey well or trust him.

A 60 - I can't check
SUB-M 14 - no interaction

ASM 92 - In public. Only refer to each other by hero names. Iceman doesn't recognize Gwen, or that she has any relation to Spider-Man. They don't really know each other well.

M/TU 4 - Only call each other by hero names. Professor X scans Spidey's mind and presumably learns his identity. It's possible that Xavier shared the identity, and it's also possible that Spidey was unmasked while sick. Both somewhat unlikely in my opinion.

M/TU 23 - no interaction
the spider-man project: http://spiderman.whiskeyclone.net

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6308
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:52 pm

A 60 is the wedding of Wasp & Yellowjacket. No interaction.

M/TE 13 - can't check.

PPTSS 17
PPTSS 18 - covered above.

COC 1 - can't check, but I'm pretty sure it's safe to say it's a crowd shot.

H2 279 - Hulk gets the key to the city and everyone tells him he's just super. No interaction.

SUB-M2 3 - can't check

ASM 282 - covered above

M/FAN 32 - can't check

SMF:AF - covered above

WOSM 75 - public interaction only, but they're on friendly terms.

IW 1
IW 2
WM2 13
IW 3 - Infinity War crowd shots.

MTW 2 - I don't have this, but given the sheer amount of characters appearing in this issue, I'd have to say 'crowd shot, no interaction'. I could be wrong, though.

PPTSS 197
PPTSS 198
PPTSS 199 - Spider-Man and the X-Men team up. Spider-Man obviously knows who Jean is... but she wasn't really keeping her identity secret at the point anyway. All public interaction.

IC 1 [SM only: ~ WOSM 104]
IC 2 [SM only: ~ WOSM 104 ~ DRSTR3 55]
WOSM 105 [SM only: ~ MK3 57]
IC 6 - Infinity Crusade crowd shots.

UX 337 - Pete takes a picture of Graydon Creed. That's it.(no interaction)

ASM2 3
PPSM2 3 [& -FB] - Public interaction. They know each other and are friendly, but don't use real names.

ORDER 5 - Crowd shot, no interaction.

It looks like all there's left to check is Marvel Treasury Edition 13, Sub-Mariner v2 3, & Marvel Fanfare 32. And so far, I'm not seeing any evidence that Bobby doesn't know who Peter is, I'm only seeing no evidence that he does.
-Daron Jensen

metaldragon
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 669
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Spider-Man Family v2 8

Post by metaldragon » Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:12 pm

Col_Fury wrote:M/TE 13 - can't check.
The story segment Spider-Man is in is separate from and unrelated to the story segment Iceman is in.
"May the Light shine forever!"

Locked