Captain America: Man Out of Time 1-5

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Captain America: Man Out of Time 1-5

Post by Leoparis » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:15 pm

pp 1-9 April 1945 in Leipzig
This is just before their last mission, between Cap Annual 13 and Sentinel of Liberty 12.

pp 10-13 Cap and Bucky try to stop the drone plane

pp 14-16 Avengers revive Cap

pp 17 Cap in the submarine, Avengers go out ahead of Cap
p 18 Cap goes out, crosses statues of Avengers

pp 19-23 Cap discovers New York, gets involved in a mugging and gets shot.

Note: The statues are the Avengers turned to stone by the medusa alien. This all happens during Avengers #4

p 1-4 Cap in the hospital being attended by two physicians
p 5 Cap in the hospital noticing a lot of changes in society
p 6 Cap in the street noticing more changes:
panel 1 he exits the hospital
panels 2-3 he attempts to make a phone call
panel 4 he looks at a newspaper stand
panel 5 somebody calls out to him
p 7-11 He confuses Jones with Bucky and asks to get some coffee, then he demonstrates his prowess with the shield to prove his identity
p 12 he rides with Jones on a motorbike still thinking of Bucky
p 13-15 in an apartment, Jones hacks into surveillance cameras to find images of what happened to the Avengers, they notice a man, and get reports of where he lives, Cap uses the computer
p 16 panel 1 Jameson sends Leeds and Parker to track Cap
panel 2 a journalist shows images of Cap
panel 3 Richards picks that reportage
panel 4 the POTUS is informed
p 17-19 Cap smashes through the window of the man, fights him and discovers he's an alien
p 20-22 Rick arrives and Cap starts to see the present time for what it is.

Note: Waid chose to retell the events from Avengers #4 (p10-14) and there are differences. In Avengers #4, a policeman sends Cap to a hotel and Rick finds Cap in the hotel rather than in the street. The alien is with gunmen in Av #4 but alone here. It is still possible to integrate these parts if one ignores the captions:
Av #4 10:1
CA:MOT #1 19-23
CA:MOT #2 1-12 Jones finds him and leads him to his apartment
Av #4 10:2-11-2 He gets to sleep and when he wakes up, confuses Rick with Bucky again
Av #4 11:3-6 = CA:MOT #2 13 They identify a man with a strange device
Av #4 11:7-12:3 = CA:MOT #2 14:1-2 Rick asks for help in identifying the man
CA:MOT #2 14:3-6 15:1-2 He gets a report while Cap uses the computer
CA:MOT #2 15:3 = Av #4 12:4 Cap racing on the roof
Av #4 12:5 Cap spots him through the window
Av #4 12:6 = CA:MOT #2 17 breaks through window
Av #4 12:7-13:4 gets rid of gunmen
CA:MOT #2 18-19:1-2 Disguised alien shoots at him
Av #4 13:5 extends hand toward man's face
CA:MOT #2 19:3 rips his mask
Av #4 14:1 gunmen flee
CA:MOT #2 19:4-5

1-22 Tony Stark explains to Cap they can't use the time machine to send him back. He gives him a tour of twentieth century achievements. The POTUS orders Cap not to try to travel back in time.

This one is easier. It happens after Cap fought the Hulk (in FF #26)

#4 This covers the period to the fight with Kang in Avengers #8
pp 1-4 Cap looks for Bucky's grave in Arlington; Thor tells him not to wallow in self-pity
p 5 panel 1: Rogers told there is no James Buchanan Barnes
panel 2 Avengers and Hulk vs the Lava Men
panel 3 Rogers informed per FOIA that there is no trace of James Barnes
p 6 pn 1 Rogers draws Peggy Carter's face
p 6 panel 2 Avengers fight Masters of Evil
panel 3 Stark tells Rogers they found no trace of Peggy Carter
p 7-8 Rogers meets General Simon
p 9 panel 1 Cap busts drug traffickers
panel 2 Cap and general Simon
p 10 panel 1-2 Cap finds immigrants in a truck
p 10 panel 3-4, p11 pn 1 with general Simon
pn 2 Stark gives Avengers card to Cap, Rick, Giant-Man
pn 3-4 with General Simon
p 12 pn 1 with General Simon
pn 2 IM tells the Avengers [CA, GM, T, W] of some UFO sightings
pn 3-5 with General Simon
p 13-15 The general's nurse gives Rogers a picture of Cap he left him in his last will and he returns to Avengers mansion with it to find an emergency [IM, GM]
p 16 IM tells the Avengers [CA, GM, T, W] the UFO has been identified and shows pictures of it and Kang
p 17 Avengers [CA, GM, T, W, IM] vs Kang
p 18 The Avengers attack is repelled, Kang reveals he's a time traveler
p 19 Avengers attack again but Kang sends them to their cells
p 20 But Cap avoids and manages to hit Kang. He figures Cap is from another era, the 1940s (This page follows Cap's appearance on p12 of Av#8)
p 21 Cap hits Kang again
p 22 Cap is in the middle of Times Square on VJ Day (Aug 14, 1945)

#5 This covers Cap stranded in 1945 and the end of the fight vs Kang in #8 plus an epilogue occurring after a fight vs the Executioner.

pp1-5 Cap in 1945 trying to settle. He tries to find Peggy Carter and to contact General Jacob Simon until he sees a circus poster reminding him of the Avengers.
pp6 Wasp and Rick Jones observe Kang. Rick is receiving a distress signal from Avengers mansion (They appear here after panel 1 p13)
p 7-9 Rogers meets a former soldier
p10 pn1-4 Rogers sees his Avengers card and realizes something
p10 pn5 Jones looks for the origin of the signal in Rogers' room. Jarvis is there.
p11 While Rogers programs his card to send a message on the day Kang arrives, Rick and Jarvis ransack the room.
p12 Rogers hides the card in General Simon's framed photograph of Captain America. Rick finds the framed photograph where Cap gives his temporal coordinates (Aug 22, 1945). (Rick appear next in panel 4 page 13 of Av#8)
p13 Richards picks Captain America with the time machine (The FF protect the UN from Kang's soldiers and Richards has to get back to them)
p14 pn1 Rick is aboard Kang's vessel looking for the cells
pn2 He presses a button (following Av8 pn6 pg 15)
pn3-4 Cap's shield smashes the machinery
p15 pn1 Rick rejoices, Cap tells him to stand back
pn2 Thor smashes the wall (=pn4 pg 16 Av8)
pn3 Cap and Thor help Iron and Giant-Man (just before pn5 pg6 Av8)
p16-17 Avengers charge at Kang
p18 pn1 Thor throws his hammer, Cap his shield and IM his repulsor ray
pn2 As IM's ray connects along with Mjolnir, Kang is triple-hit
pn 3-4 Thor recovers his hammer, Cap his shield
pn5 Thor strikes the floor, a lightning bolt strikes Kang
p19 pn1 Next to Wasp, Giant-Man fires a gun at Kang (between pn1-2 p 19 Av8)
pn2 Kang's vessel disappears as Thor's hammer goes through its image (between pn 4-5 p21 Av8)
pn3-4 Avengers (IM, GM, T, W) acclaim Cap's leadership (between pn6-7 p21 Av8)
p20 pn3 Executioner charging at Avengers (CA, GM, T, IM)
p20 pn1-2, p21-22 Rogers goes camping in the Grand Canyon. He embraces the future.

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Re: Captain America: Man Out of Time 1-5

Post by robfj » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:29 am

Re placement of #3.

Cap's comment on p4 about Hulk certainly suggests this whole issue happens after FF#26. But I am conflicted about that opening scene p1-5. It looks like an alternative telling of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes v1 #2 p1-3 and 7. In both Giant-Man and Iron Man establish that Cap is fit and the original.

That part of EMH#2 is currently placed as early as possible, even before the 2nd half of Av#4. It certainly makes sense that Avengers would give Cap a medical as soon as possible.

If I'm right and these are the same scene, then we'd have to move the EMH version to post-FF#26. This also probably applies to Avengers Classic #4/2 where Gabe Jones establishes Cap's identity for the government.

Maybe FF#25-26 (and the end of Av#4) happened too quickly to give Cap's a medical exam. Or maybe Pym's tests and Stark's accessing government records took days to complete.

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Re: Captain America: Man Out of Time 1-5

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:36 pm

Drat. That Hulk reference sure does place Cap:MoT #3-4 after FF #25=26. Argh. The revised chronologies in the Avengers #4 entry of the Avengers Index TPB (on sale this Wednmesday) need adjustment.

But I wouldn't necessarily conflate the scene in Cap:MoT #3 with the scene in Av:EMH #2, which is too tied into Av #4 continuity to be able to occur after FF #25-26.
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Re: Captain America: Man Out of Time 1-5

Post by robfj » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:54 am

I agree about Av:EMH#2. It's obviously Cap's first day in Avengers Mansion.

I guess the best we can do is say the examination in Av:EMH#2 was based on what Giant-Man and Iron Man could do immediately. Over the following days GM could do more extensive tests of Cap's health. And IM could dig up more data to confirm Cap's identity. In MOOT#3 they reach their final conclusions.

I wonder if the government's tests to prove Cap's identity in AvCl#4/2 happened in between? Meaning Stark (thinks he) can do better than the government.

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Re: Captain America: Man Out of Time 1-5

Post by robfj » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:32 am

There are some general continuity problems with this series.

Wasp wears the pointed headgear throughout all 5 issues that she discarded before Avengers #3. Iron Man has the helmet with points over the eyes also in every issue (covering up to Av#8), which he changed before Av#6. Coincidentally it is the same pointy combination as in Thor: Godstorm #1.

Cap is depicted here with no memory problems. (Not counting remembering Peggy Carter's name, which he wasn't actually supposed to know.) This contrasts with Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes vol 1.

But the EMH approach has the advantage that it explains why Cap didn't recognise Sub-Mariner in Av#4 as an ally from the Invaders. (Subby had his own memory problems.) I wonder if this is why MOOT doesn't mention this encounter. (But then EMH misses it out too.)

Strangely MOOT and EMH both ignore Av#7 as well. In fact in this instance EMH is the bigger offender in that it implies that Av#8 follows immediately after Av#6. At least MOOT has stuff happening in between, and says that there are lots of sighting of Kang's UFO before he finally lands it.

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Re: Captain America: Man Out of Time 1-5

Post by robfj » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:11 am

And another thing .....

MOOT#4 says Bucky has no grave (and no army records), But EMH#3 has him visiting the grave (which must of course be empty) in the Arlington Cemetery.