Captain America and Bucky

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Leoparis
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Captain America and Bucky

Post by Leoparis » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:12 am

Captain America and Bucky 620
Analysis:
page 1: 1935, Bucky his dad and sister Becca
page 2-4: His youth
page 5: told of his father's death
page 6: funeral, Becca sent to boarding school
page 7-13: 1940 Bucky smuggling in Camp Lehigh, the sergeant brings him to a party, gets into a fight, gets arrested, in introduced to General Phillips, told to behave until his 16th birthday in March
page 14-17 after his birthday sent to the SAS in England for two-month training during which he finds out about Cap on newsreels (so trains until May)
page 18 flies back to Camp Lehigh
page 19-20 demonstrates his skills for Phillips and Rogers, is introduced to Rogers (This is essentially the same scene as the fbs in Cap #12 and #14 '05 which were dated Aug '41 and are now in May 41. Phillips looked different in those, he looks right here)
page 21-22 Bucky dresses in his uniform for the first time

Newsreels show Cap's early missions:
page 15: Cap's second outing: demolishing an illegal weapons ring of stolen army goods (along with soldiers) with triangular shield and neck-free mask/helmet
page 16-17: Cap with modern mask: 1. smashing a soldier with a nazi helmet 2. deflecting bullets in closed space (tunnel, ship or submarine) (triangular shield) 3. (first with round shield) smashing through a window 4. holding knocked out civilians outside (maybe in the docks)

if the fb on page 15 is the same as the one in MSH 3, it would fit since MSH 3 is dated March 12, 1941
Last edited by Leoparis on Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Captain America and Bucky 621

Post by Leoparis » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:42 pm

p 1-2 "After a few weeks together" Cap and Bucky bust fifth columnists in a dock warehouse
p 3-4 They see a reenactment of this in the news at the theater (which plays In the Navy with Abbot and Costello, released on May 27, 1941)
p 5-6 They have a chat. Bucky is eager to get in the war
p 7-10 Mission in an amusement park, their cover is blown
p 11-18 They change into their uniform and chase the spies on a train. Bucky kills one
p 19-20 Bucky is still haunted by that death

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Captain America and Bucky 622

Post by Leoparis » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:46 pm

1-3 flashback in the movie theater to an Invaders mission
4-5 Poland Early 1942 with Invaders who get captured
6-9 3 weeks earlier: Invaders vs Atlanteans
10-20 Poland Early 42 Bucky traces missing Invaders to Arnim Zola who creates an ubermensch having the powers of the Invaders. Bucky manages to free the Invaders.

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Re: Captain America and Bucky 620

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:21 am

Could you supply a few more details, leoparis? For instance, which Invaders appear in the segments you describe? Thanks.
Paul B.

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Re: Captain America and Bucky 622

Post by DonCampbell » Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:17 pm

Leoparis wrote:10-20 Poland Early 42 Bucky traces missing Invaders to Arnim Zola who creates an ubermensch having the powers of the Invaders. Bucky manages to free the Invaders.
This is probably just a bit of nitpicking on my part but the "Mr. Mad Scientist" who appears in the early 1942 scenes in Poland on pages 10-20 is only ever identified as "Dr. Zola" and not as "Arnim Zola." Furthermore, this Zola is balding and wears eyeglasses whereas Arnim Zola had a full head of hair, was never seen wearing glasses and had a scrawny body. Is this just an artistic error? Or are they meant to be different Zolas?

Also, these two missions in early 1942 take place between Invaders #4 (where U-Man first evaded capture) and #7 (where the Invaders were in England and first met the Falsworths). The events in Switzerland depicted in Invaders #31 - FB also take place in that gap. At that time, the only Invaders were the five original members (Cap, Bucky, Namor, Human Torch, Toro).

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Re: Captain America and Bucky 622

Post by Somebody » Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:07 pm

DonCampbell wrote:This is probably just a bit of nitpicking on my part but the "Mr. Mad Scientist" who appears in the early 1942 scenes in Poland on pages 10-20 is only ever identified as "Dr. Zola" and not as "Arnim Zola." Furthermore, this Zola is balding and wears eyeglasses whereas Arnim Zola had a full head of hair, was never seen wearing glasses and had a scrawny body. Is this just an artistic error? Or are they meant to be different Zolas?
Smells like a retcon to bring it WW2 comics-Arnim in line with Toby Jones' portrayal in the Cap movie.

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Captain America and Bucky 623

Post by Leoparis » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:05 am

Late 1944 Europe (that leaves a lot of room for placement)
In a US camp 85 km from the Auschenberg camp

Bucky and Toro are alone because the president called their mentors
(so if there is a late 1944 mission with only the adult Invaders or just Cap and HT, that's an ideal placement)

Bucky decides to rescue an American spy from a German camp. He discovers this is an extermination camp.
After he has rescued the prisoner, he's scolded until Captain America returns.
The last page shows the Zemo's island last mission.

That completes the part featuring WWII flashback tales. Next issue concerns the Soviet era
Last edited by Leoparis on Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Captain America and Bucky 624

Post by Leoparis » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:57 am

This is the same premise as Captain America Theater of War: America First where Soviet agents are trained vs a Captain America lookalike.

See also viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6177

1958:
1-5 Bucky dressed as Captain America fights Soviet agents. Only the Black Widow holds her own against him.
6 recap how he became the Winter Soldier and trained the Black Widow
7-8 He and Black Widow become lovers
9-14 Mission in West Berlin to kill a defector, assisted by Black Widow
15-17 Next Day, Moscow. Blows his cool during debrief,

18 pn 1 put on ice as a result
pn 2-3 "for decades": two more assassination missions,
pn 4 regains his memory when Cap uses the Cosmic Cube,
pn 5 meets Black Widow again

19-20 present time: (with Black Widow) completes his story to his sister Becca who has Alzheimer's
Last edited by Leoparis on Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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What If 4

Post by Leoparis » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:05 pm

Cap & Bucky #625 deals with Naslund and Davis from What If #4, so I'll analyse this one first:

pp 1-4 Captain America and Bucky fight Zemo and his androids and are lost at sea (same as Avengers #56)
--
pp 5-7 Human Torch and Toro reach Hitler in his bunker and burn him (April 30)
--
pp 7-8 Sub-Mariner in the Pacific Ocean
--
p 8 Union Jack and Spitfire save Churchill from an assassination attempt
p 9 "Later that night" The Invaders are told of a dispatch dated April 18, 1945 stating Captain America and Bucky were KIA, they're summoned by the president
p 10 "Minutes later" Minus Union Jack and Spitfire they fly to the White House
p 11 President Truman brings them to his office to explain the secrecy around the deaths
p 12 Cap and Bucky's replacements burst into the room
p 13 Invaders flashback page
p 14 Whizzer and Miss America also join the team.
--
pp 15-16 Invaders vs Japanese military
--
p 17 panel 1 Sub-Mariner
--
p 17 panel 2 Atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima (August 6, 1945)
--
panel 3 unconditional surrender signed aboard U.S.S. Missouri (Sept 2, 1945)
panels 4-5 Invaders renamed All-Winners Squad
--
Page 18 panels 1-4 All-Winners Squad vs Isbisa (All Winners #19, Fall 1946)
--
panels 5-6 The team separates for a vacation
--
pp 19-23 Human Torch and Toro go to Boston visit Horton but find his robot double and fight Adam II androids
p 24 "Minutes, hours or days later" Human Torch and Toro wake up alongside Horton. Torch starts the fire alarm.
p 25 panels 1-5 "90 seconds later" Patriot comes and saves them
p 25 panel 6-p 26 panels 1-3 "remarkably short period of time ahead" Namors' airship lands with the rest of All-Winners Squad and get briefed
p 26 panel 4 "moments later" heroes rush to find which democratic candidate is targeted by Adam II
Panel 5-6 - p 30 panels 1-2 Cap & Bucky find JFK and fight Adam II, Cap crushed by Android as he sends a flare
panels 3-5 Other heroes arrive and engage Adam and his androids
page 31-32 panels 1-3 JFK saved by Cap from Adam II, Adam II's car crashes
panels 4-5 "Then..." JFK thanks All-Winners Squad
p 33 Cap reveals himself as Patriot to the reviving Bucky and other heroes
p 34 Patriot carries the body of Spirit of '76 as the team follows in mourning
Last edited by Leoparis on Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Captain America and Bucky 625

Post by Leoparis » Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:31 pm

flashback
1-3 panels 1-2 William Naslund and Fred Davis have a meeting with President Truman (post April 12, 1945)
(This follows the flashback in Cap #215 where Naslund is appointed without a Bucky)

3-9 Fred Davis meets Captain America in present day

flashback sequence retelling WI? 4:
9 panel 4 Cap, Bucky, Human Torch and Toro in Boston in 1946 (wrong memory)
10 panels 1-2 Human Torch and Toro vs Adam II's androids
panels 3-4 Captain America and Bucky at JFK's rally
11 panel 1 Captain America lies dead (=p 30 panel 2 of WI? #4)
panel 2 Bucky sees Cap's dead body (new fb, between pages 33 and 34 of WI? #4)

p 11 panels 3-5 - p 13 Davis and Cap meet William Naslund III

flashback
p 14 panel 1 Truman briefs the Invaders on the necessity for Cap and Bucky to live on (new fb, between panels 5 and 6 p 11 of WI? #4)
panels 2-6,- p 16 Cap II and Bucky II behind the door (just before p 12 of WI? #4)

p 17-18 Human Torch joins Cap, Davis and Naslund III

pp 19-20 Bucky robot enters a warehouse
Last edited by Leoparis on Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:23 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Captain America and Bucky 626

Post by Leoparis » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:13 pm

flashback
p 1-2 Fred Davis as Bucky with Captain America, Namor, Human Torch vs Nazi scientist and zombies (requires analysis of postwar period for placement)

p 3 Fred Davis in present time sees Bucky robot on a rampage
p 4-5 Captain America, Human Torch and Naslund III check the remains of Adam II, Sharon tells Cap about the rampage
p 6-10 Cap vs Bucky robot
p 11 Fred Davis watching the reporting on the fight
p 12-14 Human Torch and Naslund III dissecting Adam II when something odd occurs
p 15-16 Fred Davis finds something odd about Naslund, a nurse is about to stab him
P 17-18 Cap chasing Bucky robot, finds androids of himself
p 19-20 Naslund gets rewritten as Adam III
Last edited by Leoparis on Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Captain America and Bucky 627

Post by Leoparis » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:16 am

flashback
1-3 October 4, 1946 Human Torch tries to console Bucky II (takes place just after WI? 4)

4-5 An unsuccesful attempt is made on Fred Davis' life
6 General Matheson learns the robot failed to kill Davis
7-8 Captain America fights robots
9-12 Human Torch vs Adam III
13 Fred Davis rides to SHIELD facility
14-20 Captain America fights and loses to Adam III
Last edited by Leoparis on Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Captain America and Bucky 628

Post by Leoparis » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:41 pm

flashback
1949 pp1-2 Fred Davis isn't believed when he mentions he was a replacement Bucky. He mentions that he and Naslund fought Zemo. (This presumes a story where Zemo discovers they are replacements since he believes he killed Cap & Bucky in his modern appearances)

3-5 Davis fights Torch
6 Adam III meets General Matheson
7-9 Davis and Torch track Adam
9-11 Adam and Matheson
12-19 Captain America, Torch and Davis confront and stop Adam and Matheson
20 "Days Later," Davis and Naslund get their statue and recognition
Last edited by Leoparis on Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Captain America and Bucky 623

Post by JephYork » Thu May 03, 2012 2:16 pm

Leoparis wrote:Captain America and Bucky 623

Bucky and Toro are alone because the president called the three adult Invaders
This issue only states that Captain America and the Torch were summoned by the President. Namor isn't mentioned or implied at all.

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Winter Soldier 6

Post by Leoparis » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:18 pm

I was expecting Fred Davis to die during his appearance in Captain America and Bucky. This has now happened in Winter Soldier, so I will index his last appearances and then go back to earlier ones in Thunderbolts and Citizen V.

Winter Soldier 1
Fred Davis is seen on TV speaking during a reporting in favor of Barnes after his "burial" (this could also be a recording made earlier during the trial)

Winter Soldier 6
Fred Davis is seen on TV during two flashbacks: the first during the trial of the Winter Soldier, the second is the exact same as in Winter Soldier 1
new FB: Fred Davis speaks in favor of Bucky Barnes during his trial

WS 6: Fred Davis is killed by a Russian sleeper agent

So trying to complete the extant timeline with newer issues and their flashbacks:

M/PRM 30 (1942)
...
CA&B 625 fb p 1-3 panels 1-2 William Naslund and Fred Davis have a meeting with President Truman who asks them to be the new Cap & Bucky (post April 12, 1945 when Truman is sworn in, and post April 18, date of the dispatch reporting Cap is MIA) [must take place before Twelve 1]
...
[There is a problem with Twelve 1. The scene is dated April 25 and takes place after Twelve Spearhead during which Cap leaves for his final mission vs Zemo--he's reported as MIA on Apr 18 per What If? 4. However Naslund and Davis are introduced to and join the Invaders after Hitler's death--April 30--according to the same What If? 4. So it means that the other Invaders don't realize in Twelve 1 they are fighting with impostors even though they realize it straight away in the meetin in WI? 4. Unlikely but not impossible during the Battle of Berlin confusion.]
...
CA&B 625 fb p 14 panels 2-6 While Truman briefs the Invaders on the necessity for Cap and Bucky to live on Cap II and Bucky II wait behind the door (just before p 12 of WI? #4)
WI?4 p 12 Cap and Bucky's replacements burst into the oval office to be introduced to the Invaders (between April 30--death of Hitler--and May 8--war is "all but over")
WI?4 p 14 Whizzer and Miss America also join the team during the same meeting.
...
CA&B 626 fb p 1-2 Fred Davis as Bucky with Captain America, Namor, Human Torch vs Nazi scientist and zombies (requires analysis of postwar period for placement but should be as close as possible to April-May 1945) [This could also take place before the introduction of Naslund and Davis to the Invaders in WI? 4. But if so, there again the Invaders don't realize these are impostors. In support of the earlier placement: In WI? 4 the Invaders are assigned by Truman to Japan. Note that Whizzer and Miss America are missing (but then Union Jack and Spitfire also).]
...
WI?4 pp 15-16 Invaders vs Japanese military
...
CA@ 6 Invaders vs Japan
...
WI?4 page 17 panels 4-5 Invaders renamed All-Winners Squad (after Sept 2 1945)
SAGASM 5 p20 panel 3 Sub-Mariner takes a LOA from the All-Winners Squad (right after the previous sequence)
...
ALL WINNERS COMICS 19/1
ALL WINNERS COMICS 19/2
ALL WINNERS COMICS 19/7
(=WI?4 page 18 panels 1-4 All-Winners Squad vs Isbisa)
...
WI?4 page 18 panels 5-6 The team separates for a vacation
...
WI?4 p 25 panel 6-p 26 panels 1-3 "remarkably short period of time ahead" Namors' airship lands with the rest of All-Winners Squad and get briefed
WI?4 p 26 panel 4 "moments later" heroes rush to find which democratic candidate is targeted by Adam II
WI?4 p 26 panels 5-6 - p 30 panels 1-2 Cap & Bucky find JFK and fight Adam II, Cap crushed by Android as he sends a flare.
WI?4 page 30 panels 3-5 Other heroes arrive and engage Adam and his androids
WI?4 page 31-32 panels 1-3 JFK saved by Cap from Adam II, Adam II's car crashes
WI?4 p 32 panels 4-5 "Then..." JFK thanks All-Winners Squad
WI?4 p 33 Cap reveals himself as Patriot to the reviving Bucky and other heroes
CA&B 625 fb p 11 panel 2 Bucky sees Cap's dead body (new fb, between pages 33 and 34 of WI? #4)
WI?4 p 34 Patriot carries the body of Spirit of '76 as the team follows in mourning
CA&B 627 fb p 1-3 October 4, 1946 Human Torch tries to console Bucky II (takes place just after WI? 4)
Last edited by Leoparis on Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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