First X-Men #1-5

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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by JephYork » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:28 pm

I can't decide whether it's hilarious or sad that you consider "addressing your points" to be a "debate tactic." Really? Responding is a tactic? For God's sake. I sort of think you don't know what "debate tactic" actually means and you're just copying the points I bring up about you. You've already tried to throw "sneaky" in my face (by quoting something Fury said????) and now you're trying to zing "high-school debate tactic" back at me. It's not working, Jason.
You've admitted to re-interpreting a scene to fit your opinion
Wrong. I've suggested re-interpreting a scene to fit Prof. X's pre-existing backstory. Not "my opinion." There you go again trying to put a cute little spin on my conclusion to make it sound personal or selfish. That isn't working either, Jason.

Here's what it comes down to:

- I suggest we re-interpret a single page, which already has other errors on it, so that it can fit in with existing history.

- You suggest we re-interpret existing history to better accommodate a single page that already has errors on it.

That's it. That's the difference.

Thank you for stopping your continuous loop of "he's visibly standing up" and "literally anyone else who reads the book will agree with me." Neither of those things is true, and I'm glad to see you've moved on to attacking the problem in a different way: examining our claims that "established history" clashes with this scene.

Now, please feel free to embark upon a lengthy search of Prof. X's existing backstory, in an attempt to find ways to prove that it isn't as established as one might think.

I'll wait.

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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by Jason Doty » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:15 pm

That didn't take to long.

In UX 321, Magneto asks Charles about plans for the future, which he replies that teaching holds appeal to him, and Magneto scoffs at anyone calling him "Professor" (This scene takes place, while Professor X and Magneto are in Israel, before Professor X is crippled.

In X 208, Professor X makes amends with Moira, and wants her files on mutants, who will need his help (not paralyzed), he has already come across some in Egypt, Berlin, Tel Aviv.

In UX 309, Professor X is caught by Amelia Vought going over plans for Cerebro in India, while he is recovering after being crippled. He and her then return to his Estate, to "continue his life's work." He and she search for mutants to train while he attends school at Columbia University.

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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:07 am

Jason Doty wrote:In UX 321, Magneto asks Charles about plans for the future, which he replies that teaching holds appeal to him, and Magneto scoffs at anyone calling him "Professor"
Toying with the idea of teaching and sinking your entire family fortune into turning your house into a school are two very different things.
Jason Doty wrote:In X 208, Professor X makes amends with Moira, and wants her files on mutants, who will need his help (not paralyzed), he has already come across some in Egypt, Berlin, Tel Aviv.
Reaserching mutants and deciding to sink your entire family fortune into turning your house into a school are two very different things.
Jason Doty wrote:In UX 309, Professor X is caught by Amelia Vought going over plans for Cerebro in India, while he is recovering after being crippled. He and her then return to his Estate, to "continue his life's work." He and she search for mutants to train while he attends school at Columbia University.
This is after Xavier was paralyzed, right? I'll have to dig out UX 309 and re-read it, but you're saying that Amelia was training mutants WITH Xavier? Why did she leave him, then? Because in X -1, Xavier thinks it's silly for the two of them to hide away in his house and thinks they should be doing something more, and she tries to talk him out of it. If he had already planted a publicly seen "school" sign in his front yard by this point, then X -1 makes little sense (X -1 is currently placed during UX 309-FB, between pages 14-15).
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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by JephYork » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:25 am

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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by JephYork » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:41 am

By the way, Jason's misquoting things. UXM #309 says that Xavier returned to the US to "pursue" his life's work -- not "continue" his life's work.

The latter implies that he had begun his life's work before that issue. The former doesn't. Interesting that Jason changed the quote.

UXM #309 also fairly explicitly states that it was Xavier's recent encounters with Magnus and Amahl Farouk that gave him the idea to invent a mutant-detecting device (Cerebro) in hopes of gathering and protecting mutants. Both of those meetings happened **after** "First X-Men"...

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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:21 am

JephYork wrote:UXM #309 also fairly explicitly states that it was Xavier's recent encounters with Magnus and Amahl Farouk that gave him the idea to invent a mutant-detecting device (Cerebro) in hopes of gathering and protecting mutants.
Yep. He's going over the notes for Cerebro before he returns to the States. Amelia finds out what the notes are for and freaks out. She reveals she's a mutant (she thinks Xavier sought her out just becase she's a mtuant), he reveals he's a mutant and she calms down (a little, anyway).

UX 309 also says that Amelia has been trying to talk Xavier out of searching for other mutants for months (while living with him in his house, part of which was seen in X -1). She's completely opposed to drawing public attention to mutants, and doesn't like the idea of gathering them together. The last straw for her was when Cyclops spent his first night in Xavier's house (Xavier had already been helping Jean by this point, referenced in UX 309, but she was staying in her own house, not Xavier's), so Amelia moved out that night and left Xavier behind.
Jason Doty wrote:In UX 309, Professor X is caught by Amelia Vought going over plans for Cerebro in India, while he is recovering after being crippled. He and her then return to his Estate, to "continue his life's work." He and she search for mutants to train while he attends school at Columbia University.
Nope. The day Cyclops moves into Xavier's house, Amelia moves out. She's against gathering mutants together, and not helping Xavier gather them. After moving into his house she spent months trying to talk Xavier OUT OF searching for and gathering other mutants to train.

So no, Amelia wasn't helping Xavier search for and train mutants.

If Xavier had a "school" sign in his front yard, even if it's symbolic, before ever meeting Amelia, Amelia wouldn't have moved in to Xavier's house.

Speaking of Cyclops moving in to Xavier's house, UX 42/2 only describes it as "a country mansion." Cyclops repeats Xavier's (unseen) INTENTION to form a group of mutants, and Cyclops will be the first member, if he agrees. Later, Cyclops thinks to himself that he believes in Xavier's goal. No mention of a school.

In UX 46/2, Iceman's parents agree to let Iceman be a student at Xavier's "special school."

Just going by the Silver Age comics, it looks like Xavier turned his house into a school after the Cyclops origin backups (UX 38/2-42/2) and before the Iceman origin backups (UX 44/2-46/2).

UX 309-FB works nicely around UX 42/2. Cyclops moves in, Amelia moves out. With Amelia out of the picture Xavier turns his house into a school (this is where I think the last page of FXM 5 should go). Then in UX 46/2, it's already a school.
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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by JephYork » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:13 am

Glaringly wrong, Col. Fury. Glaringly wrong, if only you'd read the issue and see what's visibly shown.

(Though, in fairness to Jason, UXM #309 does state that Amelia helps Charles make lists of mutants to offer training to, though she's opposed to his plan of actually gathering them under one roof. That's what Jason's referring to when he says "he and she search for mutants to train.")

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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:50 am

Right. Xavier's already training Jean Grey at this point, which UX 309-FB references. But Amelia doesn't want them gathered in one spot, and she's been trying to talk Xavier out of the idea the whole time, even as they've been putting the list together.

But hey, Xavier put a sign in front of his house that says "Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters" before his legs were crushed and he met Amelia, his physical therapist. Amelia, who is opposed to the idea of gathering mutants in one place, moves in to Xavier's house, which has this sign in front that basically says "I gather mutants in one place." Amelia should have no problem with that!

Sure, Xavier could have the idea of turning his house into a school while Amelia was living there (and he probably did), but I just can't see there being a sign in front of his house that says "School" before or while she's living there.
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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:38 am

Toying with the idea of teaching and sinking your entire family fortune into turning your house into a school are two very different things.
Yes, that is true. I'm not arguing that that's what Xavier did. The man in the scene is asking Xavier if this is really what he plans to do with his fortune in the scene from First X-Men, as Xavier physically plants a homemade looking sign himself in the front lawn, and he seems sure of it. and the man tells him how proud his mother would be. (We can scan it up)
Reaserching mutants and deciding to sink your entire family fortune into turning your house into a school are two very different things.
Yes, that is true. I'm not arguing that he dedicated his family fortune to it that day, or that his entire family fortune consists of a sign and the hammer. I've been arguing that the "idea" to start a school, predates him physically actually doing it. That the sign is a visual representation to the person he is talking to.
This is after Xavier was paralyzed, right? I'll have to dig out UX 309 and re-read it, but you're saying that Amelia was training mutants WITH Xavier?
Yes, this is after he is paralyzed. No, Xavier says that they were searching together, for mutants to train while he also attended school. I was pointing out he continued his "life's work." This was also show that, the "idea predates him actually doing it.
If he had already planted a publicly seen "school" sign in his front yard by this point, then X -1 makes little sense
The sign is not what's important. It's a prop to let the person he is speaking to in First X-Men and "us" the reader know his future intention. Not that it is the corner stone of the school or actually the sign that sits outside the school in the years to come or that he sunk his fortune into this on that day.

I'm not trying to re-write existing history. The estate, became the school after he was paralyzed, but the "idea" for it pre-dates him actually doing it and the adventure in First X-Men is the new evidence that suggests when.

I also don't believe that the author's intent was to have those scenes at the end of First X-Men, take place not long after the conclusion of the main story. I'll see about getting a scanner to put these pages up this weekend.

Jeph! wrote
By the way, Jason's misquoting things. UXM #309 says that Xavier returned to the US to "pursue" his life's work -- not "continue" his life's work.
The latter implies that he had begun his life's work before that issue. The former doesn't. Interesting that Jason changed the quote.
I didn't do that on purpose, but thanks for pointing it out. I don't want anyone thinking I'm trying to be "shady", while presenting my argument.

I have to hit work. I'll try and address your other statements when I get off.

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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:39 am

I know that every time I have an idea, I plant an engraved sign in my front yard to really drive home the point I'm making to the person I'm talking to. My mom is really proud of me every time I have an idea, and put that idea on a sign in front of my house. I have 42 different signs on my lawn right now, representing all of the ideas I intend to eventually get around to doing one day. :yepp:

Anyway…
Jason Doty wrote:The sign is not what's important. It's a prop to let the person he is speaking to in First X-Men and "us" the reader know his future intention. Not that it is the corner stone of the school or actually the sign that sits outside the school in the years to come or that he sunk his fortune into this on that day.
The sign's not what's important? Don't tell me you're ignoring what's visibly shown… :wink:

Seriously, though.
Jason Doty wrote:I'm not arguing that he dedicated his family fortune to it that day
Well, I'm arguing that that's what the last page of FXM 5 says.

Here's the dialogue from the last page:
Some Dude wrote:God rest her soul, your mother would be SO PROUD to see this. Not that she wouldn't be proud of your EDUCATION, of course, or your military service. But using the family fortune to GIVE BACK was her true passion. Still, I feel I must ask… this will be a SIGNIFICANT investment, Charles. Are you sure this is what you want?
Charles Xavier wrote:Quite sure. I'll admit, there were times I had doubts. But now I realize I was being selfish. Untrue to mother… and myself. Edmund Burke said all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. It's time for me to do SOMETHING.
To me, that really sounds like he's starting the process of using the family fortune to turn his house into a school right then and there. He doesn't say "It's time for me to do SOMETHING… eventually. After a vacation!" No, he just says "It's time for me to do SOMETHING." Meaning, now is the time to turn my house in to a school. NOW.
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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:50 pm

Jeph! wrote
UXM #309 also fairly explicitly states that it was Xavier's recent encounters with Magnus and Amahl Farouk that gave him the idea to invent a mutant-detecting device (Cerebro) in hopes of gathering and protecting mutants. Both of those meetings happened **after** "First X-Men"...
Yes, I agree.

Col. Fury wrote
Yep. He's going over the notes for Cerebro before he returns to the States. Amelia finds out what the notes are for and freaks out. She reveals she's a mutant (she thinks Xavier sought her out just becase she's a mtuant), he reveals he's a mutant and she calms down (a little, anyway).
Yes, I agree.

Col. Fury wrote
UX 309 also says that Amelia has been trying to talk Xavier out of searching for other mutants for months (while living with him in his house, part of which was seen in X -1). She's completely opposed to drawing public attention to mutants, and doesn't like the idea of gathering them together. The last straw for her was when Cyclops spent his first night in Xavier's house (Xavier had already been helping Jean by this point, referenced in UX 309, but she was staying in her own house, not Xavier's), so Amelia moved out that night and left Xavier behind.
Yes, I agree.

Col. Fury wrote
Nope. The day Cyclops moves into Xavier's house, Amelia moves out. She's against gathering mutants together, and not helping Xavier gather them. After moving into his house she spent months trying to talk Xavier OUT OF searching for and gathering other mutants to train.
No, I don't agree. It specifically says she helped him create lists of mutants to train, even if she was trying to talk him out of it. and thank you for pointing it out with this quote.

Jeph! wrote
(Though, in fairness to Jason, UXM #309 does state that Amelia helps Charles make lists of mutants to offer training to, though she's opposed to his plan of actually gathering them under one roof. That's what Jason's referring to when he says "he and she search for mutants to train.")
Col. Fury wrote
If Xavier had a "school" sign in his front yard, even if it's symbolic, before ever meeting Amelia, Amelia wouldn't have moved in to Xavier's house.
I never said that the sign stayed there as a permanent fixture and since we don't see it again after he planted it, what she would have done is speculation. I only know what she did on panel.

Col. Fury wrote
Speaking of Cyclops moving in to Xavier's house, UX 42/2 only describes it as "a country mansion." Cyclops repeats Xavier's (unseen) INTENTION to form a group of mutants, and Cyclops will be the first member, if he agrees. Later, Cyclops thinks to himself that he believes in Xavier's goal. No mention of a school.

In UX 46/2, Iceman's parents agree to let Iceman be a student at Xavier's "special school."

Just going by the Silver Age comics, it looks like Xavier turned his house into a school after the Cyclops origin backups (UX 38/2-44/2) and before the Iceman origin backups (UX 44/2-46/2).
Yes I agree, this would be the point when the Estate officially becomes the School.

Col. Fury wrote
UX 309-FB works nicely around UX 44/2. Cyclops moves in, Amelia moves out. With Amelia out of the picture Xavier turns his house into a school (this is where I think the last page of FXM 5 should go). Then in UX 46/2, it's already a school.
Yes, I agree, with the exception of this is where the last page of FXM 5 should go.

Col. Fury wrote
Right. Xavier's already training Jean Grey at this point, which UX 309-FB references. But Amelia doesn't want them gathered in one spot, and she's been trying to talk Xavier out of the idea the whole time, even as they've been putting the list together.
I agree.

Col. Fury wrote
But hey, Xavier put a sign in front of his house that says "Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters" before his legs were crushed and he met Amelia, his physical therapist. Amelia, who is opposed to the idea of gathering mutants in one place, moves in to Xavier's house, which has this sign in front that basically says "I gather mutants in one place." Amelia should have no problem with that!
As I said to Jeph! Since we don't see the sign on panel after he planted it, what she would do is speculation. It's a prop used to emphasize what Xavier plans to do in the future not a permanent fixture.

Col. Fury wrote
Sure, Xavier could have the idea of turning his house into a school while Amelia was living there (and he probably did), but I just can't see there being a sign in front of his house that says "School" before or while she's living there.
I know you are reiterating your point about the sign, and I've already addressed it.

Col. Fury wrote
I know that every time I have an idea, I plant an engraved sign in my front yard to really drive home the point I'm making to the person I'm talking to. My mom is really proud of me every time I have an idea, and put that idea on a sign in front of my house. I have 42 different signs on my lawn right now, representing all of the ideas I intend to eventually get around to doing one day. :yepp:
Funny.

Col Fury wrote
The sign's not what's important? Don't tell me you're ignoring what's visibly shown… :wink:
Not at all. The scene in question shows him physically planting the sign, he did it. It is shown on panel.

Col Fury wrote
Well, I'm arguing that that's what the last page of FXM 5 says.
Fair enough, and thank you for typing out the exchange between Xavier and some dude.

Col. Fury typed up
Some Dude wrote:
God rest her soul, your mother would be SO PROUD to see this. Not that she wouldn't be proud of your EDUCATION, of course, or your military service. But using the family fortune to GIVE BACK was her true passion. Still, I feel I must ask… this will be a SIGNIFICANT investment, Charles. Are you sure this is what you want?

Charles Xavier wrote:
Quite sure. I'll admit, there were times I had doubts. But now I realize I was being selfish. Untrue to mother… and myself. Edmund Burke said all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. It's time for me to do SOMETHING.
Yes, the person speaking to him is very familiar with Xavier and his family as Jeph! has suggested. A relative? a close confidant? a person who has been handling the estate? The scene does not say, so "Some Dude" works for me. He specifically says that "THIS WILL BE a significant investment. and asks "Are you SURE this is what you want?" So to me this means it has not happened yet.

Xavier is "quite sure" that this is what he is going to do, because he must do something. To me, he is definitely planing on opening a school, but like I suggested. It just didn't happen until a later point. The next time I believe we would see him is his "Good Sheppard" role in Vietnam, which would match up with the other characters foreshadowed in the final scenes of FXM.

Col. Fury wrote
To me, that really sounds like he's starting the process of using the family fortune to turn his house into a school right then and there. He doesn't say "It's time for me to do SOMETHING… eventually. After a vacation!" No, he just says "It's time for me to do SOMETHING." Meaning, now is the time to turn my house in to a school. NOW.
That is a fair assumption to make. I agree "he's starting the process of using the family fortune to turn his house into a school right then and there." The difference is that, by there, I mean at the point at which the other characters appear in the story, and did not finish this process. The "vacation" would come after he is out of the military. What happened between here and his involvement in Vietnam is not shown on panel.

I'm of the firm belief that the author's intent, was to have these events take place not long after the conclusion of the main story. And the wording and props shown in the scenes are meant to foreshadow future events.

Nothing I've suggested contradicts what comes after. Marvel Comics come out every week imparting new scenes and so long as they don't completely contradict established facts, we should make an effort to place them where the author intended.

To argue the points about other errors, I think we should have a visual representation of them.

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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by JephYork » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:04 pm

Don't you get it, Fury? He planted the sign ... then dug the sign up again and went on vacation for years. IT WAS SYMBOLIC YOU SEE.

Really, how you can continue to be so glaringly wrong about this is beyond me.
I'm of the firm belief that the author's intent, was to have these events take place not long after the conclusion of the main story.
I think we can ALL agree on this point. It IS what the author intended. Nobody's arguing that.

But the author also intended Wolverine to volunteer for the Weapon X Project, for Magneto to begin forming his Brotherhood shortly after this issue, and (probably) for Xavier to be speaking to his dead father. Do you understand that writers occasionally make mistakes?

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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:12 pm

Jason attributed a bunch of stuff I said to Jeph, so I fixed that.
Jason Doty wrote:
Col_Fury wrote:To me, that really sounds like he's starting the process of using the family fortune to turn his house into a school right then and there. He doesn't say "It's time for me to do SOMETHING… eventually. After a vacation!" No, he just says "It's time for me to do SOMETHING." Meaning, now is the time to turn my house in to a school. NOW.
That is a fair assumption to make. I agree "he's starting the process of using the family fortune to turn his house into a school right then and there." The difference is that, by there, I mean at the point at which the other characters appear in the story, and did not finish this process.
So you're saying Xavier spends the family fortune on turning his house into a school, plants a sign in his front yard that says "school" (seen in FXM 5), and then off panel, you assume that he took the sign back down, delayed the process of spending the family fortune on turning the house into a school (not seen anywhere), and didn't get around to finishing things up until after his girlfriend moves out years later (seen in UX 309-FB), where his house is finally called a school (seen in UX 46/2)?
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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:22 pm

Jeph! wrote
Don't you get it, Fury? He planted the sign ... then dug the sign up again and went on vacation for years. IT WAS SYMBOLIC YOU SEE.
Really, how you can continue to be so glaringly wrong about this is beyond me.
Here's Webster's on-line definition of glaring. "very obvious or noticeable."

My suggested fix is to keep with the author's intent, which I've gone out of my way to prove by evidence of other issues, unless in cannot fit, which to me you have not proven. Glaring is what your fix will be if it goes into the project as you suggest, just by the art in the scene.

I wrote
I'm of the firm belief that the author's intent, was to have these events take place not long after the conclusion of the main story.
Jeph responded
I think we can ALL agree on this point. It IS what the author intended. Nobody's arguing that.

But the author also intended Wolverine to volunteer for the Weapon X Project, for Magneto to begin forming his Brotherhood shortly after this issue, and (probably) for Xavier to be speaking to his dead father. Do you understand that writers occasionally make mistakes?
I'm glad we all agree on the author's intent. Yes, I realize that writers and artists make mistakes, and in this case I don't think they add up to moving Xavier's scene out of step with the others. When just assuming he didn't open the school or get very far beyond starting the process, during this time, fixes the problem. The dialog suggests he is just starting the process.

Col. Fury wrote
So you're saying Xavier spends the family fortune on turning his house into a school, plants a sign in his front yard that says "school" (seen in FXM 5), and then off panel, you assume that he took the sign back down, delayed the process of spending the family fortune on turning the house into a school (not seen anywhere), and didn't get around to finishing things up until after his girlfriend moves out years later (seen in UX 309-FB), where his house is finally called a school (seen in UX 46/2)?
No. I'm saying he started the process as you suggested, and after the scene, life intervened (with what ever we see on panel), and he came back to the idea years later. I'm saying the adventure depicted in the series affected the various characters within and the author was cleverly trying to foreshadow the events to come (in the future). If they didn't get to them until years later, what do I care. It does not change what is to come at all. This is how they felt at the time.

I see a non-crippled, Xavier, by the fact that he is planting the sign himself, and that to me he appears to be standing regardless if the sign is covering his lower body or not, he is in a military uniform. I do not even remotely think that he is speaking to his father, which he 100% could not be, and the dialog doesn't mention by name and in my opinion is not an error at all.

I don't care about the sign or what happened to it after this scene, (If it was blown away, removed, destroyed, it just doesn't mater outside this scene except as a prop to let us know that he would like to open a school. I don't care how the mansion was drawn (artist mistake), it has no barring on the scene or the dialog.

The only thing that maters is that the MCP would be directing a user to a scene, that could be just as easily written off, with the difference between starting something that the dialog suggests, and him actually doing it, which is the scene that nobody sees on panel, which comes between Cyclops and Iceman being recruited.

Jeph!'s suggested placement of this scene in that spot would be glaring in my opinion by seeing a non-crippled Xavier (no wheel chair, wielding a hammer, in the military uniform he was wearing during the tail end of the adventure and talking at eye level), whether we can see his legs or not. I'm not for hand-waving, squinting or going against an author's intent unless it could definitely not happen where they suggested.

This is as clear as I can make it without scanning and posting up the art from the various scenes at the tail end of FXM.
I'll leave it alone now, until I or someone else can make that happen.

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Re: First X-Men #1-5

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:36 pm

Jason Doty wrote:I'm saying he started the process as you suggested
Nope. Here's what I said:
Col_Fury wrote:To me, that really sounds like he's starting the process of using the family fortune to turn his house into a school right then and there. He doesn't say "It's time for me to do SOMETHING… eventually. After a vacation!" No, he just says "It's time for me to do SOMETHING." Meaning, now is the time to turn my house in to a school. NOW.
I'm saying the last page of FXM 5 is when Xavier turns his house into a school. Not when he came up with the idea for it, but when he turns the house into a school. Otherwise, he wouldn't be talking about spending his family fortune and planting a sign in front of his house that says "SCHOOL." Is it even legal to publicly label a building as a school if it's not a school yet?
Jason Doty wrote:I see a non-crippled, Xavier, by the fact that he is planting the sign himself,
My real-life pal Richard is a paralyzed veteran. He mows his own lawn and he trims his own bushes, and has been for years. Why would Xavier planting a sign in his yard be ANY KIND OF EVIDENCE AT ALL if Xavier is paralyzed or not in this scene?
Jason Doty wrote:and that to me he appears to be standing regardless if the sign is covering his lower body or not
HIS LEGS AREN'T ON PANEL. And since Xavier doesn't turn his house into a school until after he's paralyzed, that works out just great for us.
Jason Doty wrote:I don't care about the sign or what happened to it after this scene, (If it was blown away, removed, destroyed, it just doesn't mater outside this scene except as a prop to let us know that he would like to open a school.
I do care about the sign. People don't have giant engraved signs made up to use as a prop in their conversations. He's planting the sign in front of his house because it's a school now.
Jason Doty wrote:The only thing that maters is that the MCP would be directing a user to a scene, that could be just as easily written off, with the difference between starting something that the dialog suggests, and him actually doing it, which is the scene that nobody sees on panel, which comes between Cyclops and Iceman being recruited.
The last page of FXM 5 *IS* him actually doing it. On panel. He's even putting the sign in front of his house.
Jason Doty wrote:Jeph!'s suggested placement of this scene in that spot would be glaring in my opinion by seeing a non-crippled Xavier (no wheel chair, wielding a hammer, in the military uniform he was wearing during the tail end of the adventure and talking at eye level), whether we can see his legs or not.
How does someone not being able to use their legs preclude them from using a hammer? And a lot of veterans do wear their uniforms occasionally after they've left the service. Usually for certain holidays, a funeral or wedding or something, but it's not like they're required to burn their uniform after they're discharged. And no, we don't see a wheelchair on this page, because we ALSO DON'T SEE HIS LEGS.
Jason Doty wrote:I'm not for hand-waving, squinting or going against an author's intent unless it could definitely not happen where they suggested.
Well, since Xavier is turning his house into a school on this page, it can't happen where the author suggested. And since Xavier's legs aren't shown on this page, there's nothing stopping us from placing this scene where other comics have indicated this event goes.
-Daron Jensen

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