Dragon's Claws #1-10

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Dragon's Claws #1-10

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:36 am

DRAGON’S CLAWS #1 (July, 1988)
By Simon Furman & Geoff Senior

APPEARANCES:
Dragon (also in fb) & his team: Digit (Gan Ayerson), Mercy (Mercy Connaught), Scavenger, Steel (Shonin Ikeda) (prev 4 bts, also in fb); Evil Dead: Death Nell (bts), Feral, Hex (bts), Kronos (bts), Slaughterhouse; Wildcats: Leopard, Lion (Barry Kurran), Panther, Puma, Tiger; Stenson (executive at N.U.R.S.E.), Deller (tactician at N.U.R.S.E.), Tanya Dragon (Dragon’s wife), Michael Dragon (Dragon’s son), Saul Tesing (Dragon’s farmhand)

FLASHBACK:
Dragon and his team Dragon’s Claws win the championship for the third time in a row.
SYNOPSIS:
In the future year 8162, the Game (a gladiator-style death match, basically) is state run and super popular. But when the rules changed to make it more brutal, Dragon’s Claws (the most popular team) disbanded in protest. Now, the Evil Dead (a rival, evil team) is killing other athletes outside of the game, so N.U.R.S.E. (a government office that runs the game) re-activates Dragon’s Claws to take care of things. However, Dragon (the team leader) is married and happy in retirement, even though he can’t seem to stop watching reruns of his old matches, which his wife is angry about. One day, a rogue Game team, the Wildcats, attacks Dragon and his family at the grocery store. Dragon fights back, which pisses off his wife; she leaves with their son and Dragon comes out of retirement.

NOTE:
N.U.R.S.E. stands for National Union of Retired Sports Experts. Lion’s real name is revealed in issue 3. Issue 5 reveals that Dragon is his family name, and Tanya’s full name is Tanya Dragon.

DRAGON’S CLAWS #2 (August, 1988)
By Simon Furman & Geoff Senior

APPEARANCES:
Dragon & his Claws: Digit, Mercy, Scavenger, Steel; Evil Dead: Death Nell, Feral, Hex, Kronos, Slaughterhouse; Stenson, Deller

SYNOPSIS:
The Evil Dead kill more Game players, so Stenson (of N.U.R.S.E.) sends Dragon’s Claws out without Dragon (led by Deller). Since Deller doesn’t know what they’re doing, the Evil Dead easily ambush them. Meanwhile, Dragon returns home to find his wife and son gone. The Evil Dead prepare to kill Dragon’s Claws, but Dragon arrives and fights them off. Some of the Evil Dead escape, while others are killed. Deller swears to kill Dragon for embarrassing him.

DRAGON’S CLAWS #3 (September, 1988)
By Simon Furman & Geoff Senior

APPEARANCES:
Dragon & his Claws: Digit, Mercy, Scavenger, Steel; Vanishing Ladies (5 of them, all unnamed); High Father (Starick, took control of a town), Stenson, Deller, Lion (corpse), Fury (Kurran, Lion’s brother), Scratch (Scavenger’s dog), Tanya, Michael, Saul

SYNOPSIS:
Dragon’s Claws show up to a town that’s been taken over by High Father, but the town doesn’t want to be saved. When Dragon’s Claws are attacked by the townspeople, they fight back. Meanwhile, Dragon’s son watches the fight on TV and is yelled at by his mom. Dragon’s Claws find the High Father and learn that he’s hoarding cattle to feed the town, and that he worked for N.U.R.S.E. Meanwhile, Tiger’s brother learns that Deller hired the Wildcats to attack Dragon.

DRAGON’S CLAWS #4 (October, 1988)
By Simon Furman & Geoff Senior

APPEARANCES:
Dragon & his Claws: Digit, Mercy, Scavenger, Steel; Death’s Head, Death Nell, Baron Rocheua, Baron Cardon, Raymond Golding (World Development Council’s ambassador to Greater Britain)

SYNOPSIS:
Dragon’s Claws break up a dispute between French land Barons and rescue a kidnapped ambassador. Elsewhere, Death Nell witnesses Death’s Head’s arrival.

DRAGON’S CLAWS #5 (November, 1988)
By Simon Furman & Geoff Senior

APPEARANCES:
Dragon & his Claws: Digit, Mercy, Scavenger, Steel; Evil Dead: Slaughterhouse, Death Nell; Death’s Head, Stenson, Deller, Incinerator Jones, Tanya Dragon (bts), Matron (Stenson’s boss)

SYNOPSIS:
Death’s Head is hired by the Evil Dead to stop Incinerator Jones from stealing all of their stuff. Meanwhile, Dragon’s Claws confronts Stenson about High Father working for N.U.R.S.E., but Deller interrupts to tell them Incinerator Jones is causing trouble and they need to take care of it. Dragon’s Claws find Death’s Head already battling Incinerator Jones and his family, and get into a fight through a misunderstanding. Death’s Head becomes trapped under some rubble and Dragon’s Claws leaves. Meanwhile, the Evil Dead escape so they can heal from their previous battle with Dragon’s Claws. Later, Deller delivers the last surviving member of the Jones family and Stenson kills him. Stenson’s boss then orders that Dragon’s wife and son be killed.

DRAGON’S CLAWS #6 (December, 1988)
By Simon Furman & Geoff Senior

APPEARANCES:
Dragon & his Claws: Digit, Mercy, Scavenger, Steel; Shrine: Clarity, Fury (Kurran), Industry, Strength, Temperance, Vigilance; Stenson, Deller, Tanya Dragon, Michael Dragon, Saul, Scratch, Scourge (a serial killer)

SYNOPSIS:
Dragon’s Claws are sent to Canada to take care of Scourge, a serial killer. While they’re gone, Deller goes to murder Dragon’s family, but he has second thoughts. Fury and his group, having followed Deller and mistaking Dragon’s family for Deller’s, tries to kill Deller. When Deller escapes, Fury’s group takes Dragon’s family hostage. Mercy goes after Scourge on her own, because she was a serial killer before she was in the Game. They start fighting.

DRAGON’S CLAWS #7 (January, 1989)
By Simon Furman & Geoff Senior

APPEARANCES:
Dragon & his Claws: Digit, Mercy, Scavenger, Steel; Evil Dead: Death Nell, Hack, Rend, Slash, Slaughterhouse; Scourge, Stenson, Matron, Raymond Golding, Deller, Scratch

SYNOPSIS:
Mercy and Scourge fight, but Mercy escapes. Dragon’s Claws keeps an eye on Scourge’s target, hoping she’ll attack again. Scourge does, but she is able to evade Dragon’s Claws. Mercy returns and kills Scourge. Meanwhile, Stenson gives Raymond Golding a tour of Dragon’s Claws headquarters, but they’re interrupted by Deller. Stenson worries that Deller will tell Golding he was ordered to kill Dragon’s family. Meanwhile, the Evil Dead gets some new members and kills some paramedics.

DRAGON’S CLAWS #8 (February, 1989)
By Simon Furman & Geoff Senior

APPEARANCES:
Dragon & his Claws: Digit, Mercy, Scavenger, Steel; Evil Dead: Death Nell, Hack, Rend, Slash, Slaughterhouse; Matron, Stenson, Deller, Raymond Golding

SYNOPSIS:
The Evil Dead attack N.U.R.S.E. headquarters. Meanwhile, Dragon, having received a phone call from Golding, meets with him and attacks Deller and Stenson for trying to kill Dragon’s family. Stenso agrees to take them to Matron, who gave the order. Dragon’s team is called to protect N.U.R.S.E. headquarters. Slaughterhouse plans to kill Matron, because N.U.R.S.E. is basically a protection racket against old Game players. Dragon arrives at N.U.R.S.E., but when he sees Slaughterhouse, he’s separated from Stenson, Deller and Golging. Stenson sets Deller and Golding on fire, but Slaughterhouse kills Dtenson. Dragon and Slaughterhouse fight, but they’re interrupted by Matron.

DRAGON’S CLAWS #9 (March, 1989)
By Simon Furman & Geoff Senior

APPEARANCES:
Dragon & his Claws: Digit, Mercy, Scavenger, Steel; Evil Dead: Death Nell, Hack, Rend, Slash, Slaughterhouse; Matron, Deller, Raymond Golding, Scratch

SYNOPSIS:
As Matron tortures Dragon and Slaughterhouse, Deller saves Golding from the fire and Dragon’s team continues to fight the Evil Dead until Death Nell explains that Matron is evil. The two teams combine to attack Matron. Dragon and Slaughterhouse break free and attack Matron, but it’s Death Nell who kills her. Dragon’s Claws wonders that since N.U.R.S.E. is no more, if their team is done for as well.

DRAGON’S CLAWS #10 (April, 1989)
By Simon Furman & Geoff Senior

APPEARANCES:
Dragon & his Claws: Digit, Mercy, Scavenger, Steel; Shrine: Clarity, Fury (Kurran), Industry, Strength, Temperance, Vigilance (prev 6 also in fb); Deller, Raymond Golding, Tanya Dragon, Michael Dragon (prev 2 also in fb), Scratch

FLASHBACK:
Fury and his team continue to hold Dragon’s family hostage.
SYNOPSIS:
Dragon’s Claws stop some maniac from rampaging across the countryside and learn where Dragon’s family is being held. Meanwhile, Raymond Golding talks to the World Development Council about keeping Dragon’s Claws around despite N.U.R.S.E. being corrupt. Dragon’s Claws attacks Fury’s base, but Dragon’s wife is angry that Dragon is using violence to rescue them. Meanwhile, Deller kills Fury. Dragon’s wife runs away with their child again. Later, Golding tells Dragon’s Claws that the World Development Council has agreed to keep their team active.

NOTE:
Dragon’s Claws also appears in Death’s Head #2, between issues #7-8.

Speaking of Death’s Head, DH 1 picks up pretty much where DC 5 leaves off, and takes place in the same universe as Dragon’s Claws (at least for the first several issues). Death’s Head is repaired in DH 1, Dragon’s Claws guest stars in DH 2 (where we learn Scavenger’s origin), etc. We’re missing some characters from these early Death’s Head comics, noticeably Spratt, who pals around with Death’s Head through his series.

As long as we’re talking about Death’s Head, the original Death’s Head originated in the Transformers UK universe. The character we have listed under Minion is actually the Death’s Head of the universe that Iron Man 2020 comes from (and was cannibalized from the original Death’s Head, not that it matters for what we’re talking about). We’re also missing Minion’s creator, Dr. Evelyn Necker (even though we have her Earth-616 counterpart already listed), who is also from the 2020-verse. Tuck is from this same universe, and Charnel/Baron Strucker V is also from this same universe, but we’re missing an alternate reality Charnel, and the Avengers from that alternate universe.

Yeah, I picked up a bunch of Death’s Head comics recently. :)

Let’s go!

*ALKEMIST (change name to ALKEMIST | 2020-VERSE)
DHII2 13


ARCHANGEL/WARREN WORTHINGTON III | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 3

BAHLIA | 8162-VERSE
DWM 140
DH 5

*BIG SHOT (change name to BIG SHOT | 8162-VERSE)
*DH 4
*DH 7
DH:BIQ (1 - 24)
DH 10 (21:1)-OP
DH:BIQ (25)
DH 10 (21:2)-OP
DH:BIQ (26:1 - 26:4)
DH 10 (21:3 - 21:4)
DH:BIQ (26:5 - 59)

BLACK WIDOW III/NATASHA ROMANOFF | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 2
D3 3

CABLE/NATHAN | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 3
D3 4

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVE ROGERS | CHARNEL-VERSE
DHII 4

*CHARNEL/BARON VON STRUCKER V (change name to CHARNEL/BARON STRUCKER V/”KITE” | 2020-VERSE)
DHII 2


CHARNEL | CHARNEL-VERSE
DHII 4
D3 3
D3 4

*CHRONOZONE (change name to CHRONOZONE | CHRONO-VERSE)
DHII2 16

CICATRICE | LIONHEART-VERSE
DHII2 14/2-FB
DHGOLD

CLARITY | 8162-VERSE
DC 6
DC 10-FB
DC 10

COLT | 8162-VERSE
DH 5

DAREDEVIL/MATT MURDOCK | CHARNEL-VERSE
DHII 4
[Ant-Man & Wasp #3, from 2011]

DEAD CERT | 8162-VERSE
DH 4
DH 6
DH 7

*DEATH METAL (change name to DEATH METAL/MINION | 2020-VERSE)
D3 1


DEATH NELL | 8162-VERSE
DC 1-BTS
DC 2
DC 4
DC 5
DC 7
DC 8
DC 9

*DEATH WRECK (change name to DEATH WRECK/MINION | 2020-VERSE)
DW 1 (1 - 8)


*DEATH'S HEAD (change name to DEATH’S HEAD | STYRAKOS-VERSE)
DH:BIQ-FB-FB


**DEATH'S HEAD 2 (delete entry)
See Minion

*MINION/DEATH'S HEAD II/DEATH'S HEAD/HOOD (change name to DEATH’S HEAD/MINION/”HOOD” | 2020-VERSE)

DHII2 8
*DHII2 9
**DHII2 9 (1 - 8) (delete)
**DHII2 9 (11 - 13) (delete)
**DHII2 9 (16 - 18) (delete)
**DHII2 9 (20) (delete)
**DHII2 9 (22) (delete)
BT 1


DELLER | 8162-VERSE
DC 1
DC 2
DC 3
DC 5
DC 6
DC 7
DC 8
DC 9
DC 10

DIGIT/GAN AYERSON | 8162-VERSE
DC 1-FB
DC 1-BTS
DC 2
DC 3
DC 4
DC 5
DC 6
DC 7
DH 2
DC 8
DC 9
DC 10

DOCTOR DOOM/VICTOR VON DOOM | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 2

DOCTOR OCTOPUS/DR. OTTO OCTAVIUS | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 1
D3 2

DOCTOR STRANGE II/DR. STEPHEN STRANGE | CHARNEL-VERSE
DHII 4

*DOGBOLTER, JOSIAH W. (change name to DOGBOLTER, JOSIAH W. | 8162-VERSE)
DWM 84-BTS


DRAGON | 8162-VERSE
DH 2-FB
{DC 1-FB}
DC 1
DC 2
DC 3
DC 4
DC 5
DC 6
DC 7
DH 2
DC 8
DC 9
DC 10

DRAGON, MICHAEL | 8162-VERSE
DC 1
DC 3
DC 6
DC 10-FB
DC 10

DRAGON, TANYA | 8162-VERSE
DC 1
DC 3
DC 5-BTS
DC 6
DC 10-FB
DC 10

FERAL | 8162-VERSE
DC 1
DC 2

FOX | 8162-VERSE
DH 2-FB
{DH 1}
DH 2

FURY/KURRAN | 8162-VERSE
DC 3
DC 6
DC 10-FB
DC 10

GHOST RIDER XXXVI | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 2
D3 3
D3 4

GOLDING, RAYMOND | 8162-VERSE
DC 4
DC 7
DC 8
DC 9
DC 10

HACK | 8162-VERSE
DC 7
DC 8
DC 9

*HERON (change name to HERON | LIONHEART-VERSE)
DHII2 14/2-FB
DHGOLD

HEX | 8162-VERSE
DC 1-BTS
DC 2

HIGH FATHER/STARICK | 8162-VERSE
DC 3

*HOB (change name to HOB | 8162-VERSE)
DWM 86


HULK/BRUCE BANNER | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 3
D3 4

INCINERATOR JONES | 8162-VERSE
DC 5

INDUSTRY | 8162-VERSE
DC 6
DC 10-FB
DC 10

IRON MAN/TONY STARK | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 2
D3 3
D3 4

JARVIS, EDWIN | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 2

KEEPSAKE | 8162-VERSE
DWM 140
DH 5

KINGPIN/WILSON FISK | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 2

*KLU (change name to KLU | STYRAKOS-VERSE)
DH:BIQ (57:4 - 57:5)-FB


KRONOS | 8162-VERSE
DC 1-BTS
DC 2

LEOPARD | 8162-VERSE
DC 1

LION/BARRY KURRAN | 8162-VERSE
DC 1
DC 3

*LUPEX (change name to LUPEX | STYRAKOS-VERSE)
DH:BIQ-FB-FB


MAJOR OAK | LIONHEART-VERSE
DHII2 3
DHII2 6
DHII2 7
DHII2 8
DHGOLD-FB

MASTERS-GRIMM, ALICIA | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 2
D3 3

MATRON | 8162-VERSE
DC 5
DC 7
DC 8
DC 9

MAYHEM | 8162-VERSE
DH 5
DH 6

MERCY/MERCY CONNAUGHT | 8162-VERSE
DC 1-FB
DC 1-BTS
DC 2
DC 3
DC 4
DC 5
DC 6
DC 7
DH 2
DC 8
DC 9
DC 10

*METHINX (change name to METHINX | LIONHEART-VERSE)
DHII2 6


MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS | CHARNEL-VERSE
DHII 4

NECKER, DR. EVELYN CLARICE SARAH | 2020-VERSE
DW 1
DW 3
DW 4
{DHII 1-FB}
DHII 1 (1 - 18:2)
DHII 1 (18:3 - 20:1) ~ DHII2 9 (9:1:3 - 10)
DHII 1 (20:2 - 20:4)
DHII 2
DHII 3
DHII 4
DHII2 10-FB
DHII2 2
DHII2 3
DHII2 5
DHII2 6
DHII2 7
DHII2 8
DHII2 10
DHII2 11
DHII2 12
D3 1
D3 4

NOON | LIONHEART-VERSE
DHII2 14/2-FB
DHGOLD

PANTHER | 8162-VERSE
DC 1

PHAEDRA | HAVEN-VERSE
DHII2 4-FB
{DHII 1}
DHII2 4
DHGOLD

PLAGUE DOG | 8162-VERSE
DH 3
DH 4

PUMA | 8162-VERSE
DC 1

PUNISHER II/FRANK CASTLE | CHARNEL-VERSE
DHII 4
[Ant-Man & Wasp #3, from 2011]

*PYRA (change name to PYRA | STYRAKOS-VERSE)
DH:BIQ (46:6)-FB-FB
DH:BIQ (57:4 - 57:5)-FB
DH:BIQ (47:2)-FB-FB
DH:BIQ (58:2)-FB
DH:BIQ (58:4 - 58:5)-FB-FB
DH:BIQ (33:3)-FB
*DH 6-VO
**{DH 7} (delete)
{DH 9}
DH:BIQ (1 - 36)
DH:BIQ (44:6 - 48)-FB
DH:BIQ (37 - 59)

REND | 8162-VERSE
DC 7
DC 8
DC 9

RHINO/ALEKSEI SYTSEVICH | CHARNEL-VERSE
DHII 4
[Ant-Man & Wasp #3, from 2011]

SCARLET WITCH/WANDA MAXIMOFF | CHARNEL-VERSE
DHII 4

SCAVENGER | 8162-VERSE
DH 2-FB
{DC 1-FB}
DC 1-BTS
DC 2
DC 3
DC 4
DC 5
DC 6
DC 7
DH 2
DC 8
DC 9
DC 10

SCOURGE | 8162-VERSE
DC 6
DC 7

SCRATCH | 8162-VERSE
DC 3
DC 6
DC 7
DH 2
DC 9
DC 10

SERENE | 2020-VERSE
DHII2 7
DHII2 8
DHII2 10

SHE-HULK/JENNIFER WALTERS | CHARNEL-VERSE
DHII 4

SHORT FUSE | 8162-VERSE
DH 6
DH 7

SLASH | 8162-VERSE
DC 7
DC 8
DC 9

SLAUGHTERHOUSE | 8162-VERSE
DC 1
DC 2
DC 5
DC 7
DC 8
DC 9

SMART | 2020-VERSE
DHII2 10
DHII2 11
DHII2 12

SPIDER-MAN/PETER PARKER | CHARNEL-VERSE
DHII 4

SPIDER-WOMAN II/JULIA CARPENTER | CHARNEL-VERSE
[Ant-Man & Wasp #3, from 2011]

*SPRATT (change name to SPRATT | 8162-VERSE)
*DH 1
*DH 2
*DH 3-FB
*DH 3
*DH 4
*DH 6
*DH 7
*DH 9
DH:BIQ (1 - 24)
DH 10 (21:1)-BTS
DH:BIQ (25)
DH 10 (21:2)-BTS
DH:BIQ (26:1 - 26:4)
DH 10 (21:3 - 21:4)
DH:BIQ (26:5 - 59)
*DHII 2
*DHII 3

STEALTH/ELIZA CLARE NECKER | 2020-VERSE
DHII2 10
DHII2 11
DHII2 12

STEEL/SHONIN IKEDA | 8162-VERSE
DC 1-FB
DC 1-BTS
DC 2
DC 3
DC 4
DC 5
DC 6
DC 7
DH 2
DC 8
DC 9
DC 10

STENSON | 8162-VERSE
DC 1
DC 2
DC 3
DC 5
DC 6
DC 7
DC 8

STORM/ORORO MUNROE | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 3
D3 4

STRENGTH | 8162-VERSE
DC 6
DC 10-FB
DC 10

SWITCHBLADE | 2020-VERSE
DHII2 10
DHII2 11
DHII2 12

TEMPEREANCE | 8162-VERSE
DC 6
DC 10-FB
DC 10

TESING, SAUL | 8162-VERSE
DC 1
DC 3
DC 6

THEA | 8162-VERSE
DH 5

THING II/BEN GRIMM | CHARNEL-VERSE
D3 2
D3 3

TIGER | 8162-VERSE
DC 1

*TUCK (change name to TUCK | LIONHEART-VERSE)
DHII 3


UNDERTAKER | 8162-VERSE
DH 3
DH 4
DH 7

VIGILANCE | 8162-VERSE
DC 6
DC 10-FB
DC 10

VULTURE | 8162-VERSE
DWM 140
DH 5
DH 6
DH 9
DH 10
DH:BIQ

WADLOW | 2020-VERSE
DHII2 5
DHII2 6
DHII2 7

WOLVERINE/LOGAN | CHARNEL-VERSE
DHII 4

WRATHCHILDE/DR. PHILIP ROTH
DHII2 1
DHII2 2
DHII2 3
DHII2 4
-Daron Jensen

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Re: Dragon's Claws #1-10

Post by Somebody » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:00 pm

Col_Fury wrote:As long as we’re talking about Death’s Head, the original Death’s Head originated in the Transformers UK universe. The character we have listed under Minion is actually the Death’s Head of the universe that Iron Man 2020 comes from (and was cannibalized from the original Death’s Head, not that it matters for what we’re talking about).
It's ambiguous as to exactly where and when Death's Head originated, but it was NOT the Marvel Transformers UK universe. He'd already dimension-hopped (and been enlarged to Transformer-sized, at that. He started at human size) before that. (it was revealed - apparently in Incomplete Death's Head - to be during a prior meeting with the Seventh Doctor. Well, prior for DH anyway...)

As for Minion, it's... complicated. He WAS Minion until Death's Head's absorbed personality more-or-less took control - so during his first appearance fighting DH, he's Minion.

After that, there's the whole Death's Head II thing - take a look at "On Death's Heads" and "Various Death's Head and related comics" in Archive 82. That's where the compromise of listing him primarily on the M page seems to come from. Here's SeanCurtin's post from there:
SeanCurtin wrote:
Somebody wrote:Death's Head (FPA) wasn't native to 8162 - that was where the Doctor randomly dumped him after the Tardis hit him in the timestream (which itself led on from a Transformers UK story). I forget where & when he originally came from, but I'm fairly certain it was indeed not the DC Universe, and think it probably wasn't (any) Earth. I'm not sure if he's from the/a future or not...
Death's Head originates from Styrakos, but I was under the impression that that was a dimension similar to the Dark Dimension rather than a distinct timeline. The framing sequence in The Incomplete Death's Head #1 strongly suggests that Death's Head originates in the 8162 timeline, which makes sense in retrospect, given that the origin story reprinted in Death's Head: The Body in Question doesn't have any reference to Death's Head being gigantic or from a different time than 8162.

Death's Head's early chronology boils down to this:
* Strip #19-20-FB (origin on Styrakos)
* dialogue references in Strip #19-20 and Incomplete Death's Head #1 (Death's Head is stolen by unknown parties, sent to the robot planet Scarvix)
* "High Noon Tex" strip (first appearance; Death's Head kills another robot)
* Death's Head #1-FB (set in the same world as the main story in Death's Head #1, which follows directly from Dragon's Claws #4-5)
* Incomplete Death's Head #1-FB (the Doctor transports him to the Transformers UK timeline and makes him Transformer-sized)
* Transformers UK #133-151 (Death's Head vs Autobots, Unicron)
* Dr. Who #135 (outside of time, shrunk down to normal size and sent to 8162 AD)
* Dragon's Claws #4-5, Death's Head #1, etc. (in 8162 AD, fights the Dragon's Claws, is destroyed and rebuilt)

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Re: Dragon's Claws #1-10

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:36 pm

Somebody wrote:It's ambiguous as to exactly where and when Death's Head originated, but it was NOT the Marvel Transformers UK universe.
The analysis in Archive 82 makes it sound like Scarvix in is the Transformers UK universe, and other resources I've seen seem to have come to the same conclusion. But you're right; we don't know that for sure. I've changed the above tags (not to Scarvix, though, Scarvix is just a dimension within whatever universe it's in).

As for the Death's Head of 2020, yeah, he's a Minion, but so are Death Wreck (the first Minion) and Death Metal (the third Minion). And besides, he only went by "Minion" for the first issue of DHII (his origin story, bascially). By the second issue, he's going by Death's Head.

I suggested above changing Death Wreck's and Death Metal's names to include Minion as well as adding their reality tags, but should we number them also? Meaning:

DEATH METAL/MINION III | 2020-VERSE

DEATH WRECK/MINION | 2020-VERSE

DEATH’S HEAD/MINION II/”HOOD” | 2020-VERSE

As far as I can see, he's never called "Death's Head II" in any stories. Sure, his series is called "Death's Head II," but he's just the new Death's Head (that also comes from a different reality).

Thanks!
-Daron Jensen

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Re: Dragon's Claws #1-10

Post by Somebody » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:50 pm

Col_Fury wrote:
Somebody wrote:It's ambiguous as to exactly where and when Death's Head originated, but it was NOT the Marvel Transformers UK universe.
The analysis in Archive 82 makes it sound like Scarvix in is the Transformers UK universe, and other resources I've seen seem to have come to the same conclusion. But you're right; we don't know that for sure. I've changed the above tags (not to Scarvix, though, Scarvix is just a dimension within whatever universe it's in).
Scarvix=/=Styrakos. Styrakos is where the Ty Rejutka Lupex ruled, and DH was born. Whereas Scarvix was just some planet, and indeed in the TFUKverse.
Col_Fury wrote:As for the Death's Head of 2020, yeah, he's a Minion, but so are Death Wreck (the first Minion) and Death Metal (the third Minion). And besides, he only went by "Minion" for the first issue of DHII (his origin story, bascially). By the second issue, he's going by Death's Head.
"He's" not though. Same basic situation as Superior Spider-Man, albeit arrived at in a different way, with Minion (and sundry assorted absorbed personalities) as Parker and Death's Head as Ock...

PS: There's also the Kieron Gillen stuff to consider, where Death's Head is Transformer-sized in the MU - albeit in a random, ugly redesign - and apparently pre-Transformers in his timeline.

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Re: Dragon's Claws #1-10

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:59 pm

Somebody wrote:Scarvix=/=Styrakos. Styrakos is where the Ty Rejutka Lupex ruled, and DH was born. Whereas Scarvix was just some planet, and indeed in the TFUKverse.
Gotcha.
Somebody wrote:"He's" not though. Same basic situation as Superior Spider-Man, albeit arrived at in a different way, with Minion (and sundry assorted absorbed personalities) as Parker and Death's Head as Ock...
Hm. Well, the original Death's Head personality took over in briefly DHII 2, so that should probably be added to the end of his chronology (since "he" makes an appearance). In DHII 3, 12 months pass. So OK, he's not calling himself Death's Head until DHII 3, but it's obvious in DHII 1 he's going to be Death's Head, it just took a few issues to get there.

The original Death's Head personality appears again separately in IDH 2 & 11-12, and again in DHGOLD. BUT, it's not like he's just rolling around in the guy's head; he was absorbed into HIS personality. It's like he ate and digested the original Death's Head.

I'd say this is more comparable to Hulk and Banner getting split from each other and re-merged than the Superior Spider-Man, and we should probably have links between the two characters to show when they're re-assimilated.

What about numbering the Minions? Or is this more like a few different people being named John?
Somebody wrote:PS: There's also the Kieron Gillen stuff to consider, where Death's Head is Transformer-sized in the MU - albeit in a random, ugly redesign - and apparently pre-Transformers in his timeline.
While we could add these appearances in brackets now, they'll be added when those SWORD and Iron Man issues are added.
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Re: Dragon's Claws #1-10

Post by Somebody » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:37 pm

I've now had sight, thanks to a friend, of the Incomplete Death's Head framing sequences for the first time in years. With that in mind...
Col_Fury wrote:
Somebody wrote:Scarvix=/=Styrakos. Styrakos is where the Ty Rejutka Lupex ruled, and DH was born. Whereas Scarvix was just some planet, and indeed in the TFUKverse.
Gotcha.
Okay, semi-cancel that. Still not the same thing, but Scarvix was NOT in the TFUKverse either!
Col_Fury wrote:
Somebody wrote:"He's" not though. Same basic situation as Superior Spider-Man, albeit arrived at in a different way, with Minion (and sundry assorted absorbed personalities) as Parker and Death's Head as Ock...
Hm. Well, the original Death's Head personality took over in briefly DHII 2, so that should probably be added to the end of his chronology (since "he" makes an appearance). In DHII 3, 12 months pass. So OK, he's not calling himself Death's Head until DHII 3, but it's obvious in DHII 1 he's going to be Death's Head, it just took a few issues to get there.
Still not the same thing. Death's Head (I) is the "dominant implant" in Minion/Death's Head II's head, and from the point of his asserting dominence largely regards himself as the same being. But originally, he wasn't, there was a Minion - both on-panel and chronologically - before there was a Death's Head (II).

I still say we should treat them like, say, the Hybrid symbiote, or - yes - Superior Spider-Man. Something like:

DEATH'S HEAD | LUPEX-VERSE [MECHANOID]
[...]
DHII 1 (22:3 - 22:5) ~ DHII2 9 (21)
DHII 1 (22:6)
See Death's Head/"Hood" | 2020-verse
From Death's Head/"Hood" | 2020-verse
IDH 2 (But see the IDH bit below...)
IDH 5
IDH 6
IDH 11
IDH 12
See Death's Head/"Hood" | 2020-verse
From Death's Head/"Hood" | 2020-verse
[Death's Head Gold?]

DEATH’S HEAD/"HOOD" | 2020-VERSE [MINION UNIT]
From Death's Head | Lupex-verse & Minion II | 2020-verse
DHII 2
DHII 3
[...]

MINION II | 2020-VERSE [MINION UNIT]
DHIIODC 2-FB
DHII 1 ~ DHII 9*
DHII 2
See Death's Head/"Hood" | 2020-verse

*Simplifying for the sake of argument, don't want to copy out that whole, slightly messy area!
Col_Fury wrote:The original Death's Head personality appears again separately in IDH 2 & 11-12, and again in DHGOLD.
Missed #5 and #6 there. Although IDH isn't entirely clear on what the Death's Head (I) personality actually *is*. It seems to go back and forth slightly between being a projection of the archive and a projection from DH2's head. [Not to mention that it takes a good few issues before it stops calling DH1 a "cyborg"...] On balance, simpler to think it's from his head, but thought I'd mention it just in case :)
Col_Fury wrote:BUT, it's not like he's just rolling around in the guy's head; he was absorbed into HIS personality. It's like he ate and digested the original Death's Head.
Kind of like the Hybrid symbiote? :p
Col_Fury wrote:I'd say this is more comparable to Hulk and Banner getting split from each other and re-merged than the Superior Spider-Man, and we should probably have links between the two characters to show when they're re-assimilated.
One major, major difference from Hulk/Banner - zip back through their timestream, and they converge, "ending" with a zygote in Rebecca Banner's abdomen.

Zip back through Death's Head and Minion/Death's Head II's timestreams, and they diverge. Same as Superior Spider-Man, or the Hybrid Symbiote, and so on...
Col_Fury wrote:What about numbering the Minions? Or is this more like a few different people being named John?
Somebody wrote:PS: There's also the Kieron Gillen stuff to consider, where Death's Head is Transformer-sized in the MU - albeit in a random, ugly redesign - and apparently pre-Transformers in his timeline.
While we could add these appearances in brackets now, they'll be added when those SWORD and Iron Man issues are added.
I meant that, as I've now confirmed, IDH claims that DH went straight from being reconstructed/upsized - by the Seventh Doctor, apparently - into the Transformers UK universe (Earth-120185), and then when he left it was spat straight back out to be shrunken by the Doctor. Taken strictly as written, there's no point at which he was Transformer-sized and free to appear in the 2010s Marvel Universe...
Col_Fury wrote:As far as I can see, he's never called "Death's Head II" in any stories. Sure, his series is called "Death's Head II," but he's just the new Death's Head (that also comes from a different reality).
Watcher calls him "Death's Head II" in the WI?2 54 framing sequence.

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Re: Dragon's Claws #1-10

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:24 pm

Good points, thanks!

I'm going to be tied up with/distracted by a couple of other things for the next little bit, so let me roll around with this for a while.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
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Re: Dragon's Claws #1-10

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:27 am

And I'm back.

Yes, the original Death's Head briefly takes over in DHGOLD, for like a page and a half. We see an "astral form" or something to let us know visually, and his speech patterns change back to the classic verison, yes? And then the new guy takes back over again. It all happens when the new guy's "dead" for a few minutes.

And I agree, this is more like the hybrid symbiote.

Thanks!
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Re: Dragon's Claws #1-10

Post by Somebody » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:42 am

What about the tag for DH-proper's origin universe? Still think it should be Styrakos, or at least Styrakos-verse, yes?

Either way, that leaves us with...

DEATH'S HEAD | STYRAKOS [MECHANOID]
[...]
DHII 1 (22:3 - 22:5) ~ DHII2 9 (21)
DHII 1 (22:6)
***See Death's Head/"Hood" | 2020-verse
***From Death's Head/"Hood" | 2020-verse
***IDH 2
***IDH 5
***IDH 6
***IDH 11
***IDH 12
***See Death's Head/"Hood" | 2020-verse
***From Death's Head/"Hood" | 2020-verse
***DHGOLD
***See Death's Head/"Hood" | 2020-verse

DEATH’S HEAD/"HOOD" | 2020-VERSE [MINION UNIT]
From Death's Head | Styrakos & Minion II | 2020-verse
DHII 2
DHII 3
[rest of current "MINION/DEATH'S HEAD II/DEATH'S HEAD/HOOD" entries]

MINION | 2020-VERSE [MINION UNIT]
See Death Wreck | 2020-verse

*MINION II | 2020-VERSE [MINION UNIT] (rename from MINION/DEATH'S HEAD II/DEATH'S HEAD/HOOD)
DHIIODC 2-FB
DHII 1 (1 - 18:2)
DHII 1 (18:3 - 20:1) ~ DHII2 9 (9:1:3 - 10)
DHII 1 (20:2 - 20:4)
DHII2 9 (14:1 - 14:3)
DHII 1 (20:5)
DHII2 9 (14:4 - 15:1)
DHII 1 (21:1)
DHII 1 (21:2 - 21:4) ~ DHII2 9 (15:2 - 15:4)
DHII 1 (21:5)
DHII2 9 (19)
DHII 1 (21:6 - 22:2)
DHII 1 (22:3 - 22:5) ~ DHII2 9 (21)
DHII 1 (22:6 - 23)
DHII 2
See Death's Head/"Hood" | 2020-verse
**[move rest of entries to DEATH’S HEAD/"HOOD" | 2020-VERSE [MINION UNIT], yes?]

MINION III [MINION UNIT]
See Death Metal | 2020-verse

Then add "[MINION UNIT]" to both Death Wreck | 2020-verse & Death Metal | 2020-verse, and possibly change the other | LUPEX-VERSE to | STYRAKOS (or Styrakos-verse).

Oh, and hire the WI?2 54 Death's Head to kill Death's Head II. ;)

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Re: Dragon's Claws #1-10

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:43 pm

Styrakos-verse works for me.
Somebody wrote:Oh, and hire the WI?2 54 Death's Head to kill Death's Head II. ;)
:yepp: :lol:
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Re: Dragon's Claws #1-10

Post by Somebody » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:34 pm

Further thought about Death's Head II - were there any other identifiable, chronologisable personalities he absorbed?

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Re: Dragon's Claws #1-10

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:35 am

Good question!

Some of these characters are already in the MCP.

BEZIAL
BT2 4-FB
See Minion II | 2020-verse
From Death’s Head | 2020-verse
{BT2 1}
BT2 2
BT2 3
BT2 4

DEATH’S HEAD/MINION II/”HOOD” | 2020-VERSE

BT 4
*See also Bezial
BT2 1
BT2 2
BT2 3
BT2 4
DHII2 10
DHII2 11
DHII2 12
*See also Die-Cut
*See also K’Vant Lehdrox
DHIIODC 1
*From also K’Vant Lehdrox
DHIIODC 2
SR 1

DA 13
*From also Romeo
DA 14
*See also Romeo
DA 15
DA 16

DHII2 13
*From also Tigon Liger
DHII2 14

DHGOLD
From also Death’s Head | Styrakos-verse
*From also Heron | Lionheart-verse
DHII2 14/2


DIE-CUT/CZORN-YSON
DHIIODC 2-FB
*See Minion II | 2020-verse
*From Death’s Head | 2020-verse
DHIIODC 1
DHIIODC 2
DCVGF 1
DCVGF 2
DIECUT 1
DIECUT 2
DIECUT 3
DIECUT 4

HERON | LIONHEART-VERSE
DHII2 14/2-FB
DHGOLD
*See Death’s Head | 2020-verse

LEHDROX, K’VANT
DHII 1
See Minion II |2020-verse
From Death’s Head |2020-verse
DHIIODC 1
See Death’s Head | 2020-verse

MINION II | 2020-VERSE
*BT2 4-FB
*From also Bezial
DHIIODC 2-FB
*From also Die-Cut
DHII 1 (1 - 18:2)
*From also Wilson Tyler
*From also K'Vant Lehdrox
DHII 1 (18:3 - 20:1) ~ DHII2 9 (9:1:3 - 10)


ROMEO
DA 13
See Death’s Head | 2020-verse
From Death’s Head | 2020-verse
DA 15
DA 16

TIGON LIGER
DHII2 13
See Death’s Head | 2020-verse

TYLER, WILSON
DHII 1
See Minion II | 2020-verse
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