X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9 & 11

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9

Post by JephYork » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:11 pm

XFC2 9/2 (1:2-1:6). BW in old costume, black hair. Battles Hydra, tries on different costumes, inspired by image of Marvel Girl.
You're considering that back-up strip canon?

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9

Post by wolframbane » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:11 pm

jephyork wrote:
XFC2 9/2 (1:2-1:6). BW in old costume, black hair. Battles Hydra, tries on different costumes, inspired by image of Marvel Girl.
You're considering that back-up strip canon?

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As corny as many of the back-up strips are, they may very well be canon. Many of the events from the main stories are referenced (such as Monster Island, Warren dating Wanda, etc), and even the main strip occasionally references the back-ups (like Wanda and Jean becoming friends).

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9

Post by wolframbane » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:13 pm

Another point of note for the placement of X:FC2 9, it was obviously ice skating weather near the mansion (so NY area).

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9

Post by Enda80 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:12 am

That would further suggest the placement around ASM I#85, due to the Ymir/Surtur weather disruptions.

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9

Post by wolframbane » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:57 am

Hmmm... actually X:FC2 9 seems to be split into the main story (first and last pages) and the flashback (the rest of it). We should take this into consideration we we make up the chronologies of Marvel Girl, Cyclops, Prof X, Angel and Scarlet Witch. Nick Fury seems okay (he was not in the FB), but for Dum Dum and Natasha:

DUGAN, TIMOTHY ALOYISIOUS CADWALLADER "DUM DUM"

FURY 1-FB-BTS
*X: FC2 9-FB
FF@ 3


BLACK WIDOW II/NATASHA ROMANOVA

A 16-FB
M/H&L '97
*X: FC2 9-FB
*X: FC2 9
A 29

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9

Post by wolframbane » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:59 am

Does anyone know which Helicarrier was used in the X: FC2 9? Chronologically it should be the 2nd one I think but it doesn't look like it.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/shie ... arrier.htm

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:21 am

Whoops! Good catch with the Flashbacks.

You're right, this would be the second Helicarrier, as this issue would take place between Strange Tales 135 & 136. If the details don't quite match up, call it differing artistic interpretations. :wink:
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X-Men: First Class v2 #6/2, 8 & 11

Post by Somebody » Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:59 pm

I'm noticing that there's a distinct lack of posting about #11 so far here :)

Leaving aside the meta stuff for the moment, I'm using this thread because aspects of X:FC2 6/2 and X:FC2 8 get picked up in this issue - the "Mysterio escapes" newspaper headline from the #6 backup, and the reality-warping from #8, where Mysterio is revealed, to have been picking up water from the Man-Thing's swamp during the time the Nexus was wide open (having been there to recruit the Lizard), which allowed him to warp reality using it.

Otherwise, Cyclops & Angel don't appear, and much of the rest is unreliable due to the reality-warping - Jean's momentary lapse into her green costume is no more a placement indicator than Doop's presence.

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9 & 11

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:53 pm

Now that you mention X:FC2 11...

The window for this issue in Marvel continuity actually is pretty narrow. It has to take place after FF 50 (1-14), given that the X-Men know about Galactus and the Ultimate Nullifier. It also explicitly occurs before Batroc's first appearance in TOS 75/2. Going from the Indexes and making some adjustments to handle continuity implants, I've placed FF 50 in early August of Year 4 and TOS 75/2 in September of Year 4. Also going from the Indexes, I have UX 19-23 and the first part of UX 24 occurring during the month between FF 50 (1-14) and TOS 75/2.

Placing X:FC2 11 somewhere in the range of UX 19-24 doesn't seem to be a problem for X:FC2 6/2, which precedes X:FC2 11, since I believe that was placed between UX 13 and 14. However, I think this placement of X:FC2 11 creates continuity problems for the preceeding X:FC2 8, which, if I've been following things correctly, is supposed to occur between UX 39 and 40. IIRC, X:FC2 6-8 is after X:FC 5, because X:FC 5 is the first time the X-Men saw Sentinels after UX 16. X:FC 5 may occur after X:FC 4 because of the jet reference, and given Doc Strange and Xavier's presence, X:FC 4 should be after UX 39. Is that right? If so, the weak link in that sequence may be the jet reference.
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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9 & 11

Post by Somebody » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:42 am

Points:
1) I'm not convinced any chronological references made by the X-Men themselves in this issue are... entirely reliable, by the nature of the story. Just as a loophole.
2) That's not the Blackbird in X:FC2 11, which is the jet in X:FC1 5. It's one of their earlier jets (either the "thought-controlled" jet from UX1, or the STOL jet from UX20). Although it was referenced as in-planning a few times in X:FC v1, and as still being "new" in #4, #5 is the only time it's been actually seen.
3) All they say in X:FC1 4 (*not* 5) is that it's a fixed-up version of "one of the Sentinels they beat up before". They don't specify when they beat it up before, nor that it's only the second time they've seen a Sentinel.
4) X:FC2 8 explicitly occurs the day after X:FC2 7. It's a three-parter (while 9 is linked only to 6/2, not the main stories in 6-8, and probably occurs earlier).

[PS: I've always had X:FC1 5 before 4, though still in the same basic window, since it makes things a bit neater - given that #4's a sequel to UX 33, and Dr Strange appears in X:FC1 4 with his classic look, rather than the mask-like look he's adopted by the Dr S/Avengers story. If 5's before 4, then that enforces that Ymir appears in X:FC 5 before DRSTR177-178 & A61 by default.]

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9 & 11

Post by metaldragon » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:50 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:Now that you mention X:FC2 11...

The window for this issue in Marvel continuity actually is pretty narrow. It has to take place after FF 50 (1-14), given that the X-Men know about Galactus and the Ultimate Nullifier. It also explicitly occurs before Batroc's first appearance in TOS 75/2. Going from the Indexes and making some adjustments to handle continuity implants, I've placed FF 50 in early August of Year 4 and TOS 75/2 in September of Year 4. Also going from the Indexes, I have UX 19-23 and the first part of UX 24 occurring during the month between FF 50 (1-14) and TOS 75/2.

Placing X:FC2 11 somewhere in the range of UX 19-24 doesn't seem to be a problem for X:FC2 6/2, which precedes X:FC2 11, since I believe that was placed between UX 13 and 14. However, I think this placement of X:FC2 11 creates continuity problems for the preceeding X:FC2 8, which, if I've been following things correctly, is supposed to occur between UX 39 and 40. IIRC, X:FC2 6-8 is after X:FC 5, because X:FC 5 is the first time the X-Men saw Sentinels after UX 16. X:FC 5 may occur after X:FC 4 because of the jet reference, and given Doc Strange and Xavier's presence, X:FC 4 should be after UX 39. Is that right? If so, the weak link in that sequence may be the jet reference.
I think I concluded (Jan 23 post on page 2 of this thread) that X:FC2 8 CAN go just after X:FC2 6-7 because Marvel Girl's levitation stunt is (just) within the scope of her powers as shown in the UX issues leading up to this placement and the appearance of Thor does not necessarily mean it hast to go after X:FC 5. That bit in X:FC2 8 is in Thor's future, so from his perspective X:FC 5 is in his past. Iceman had encountered Thor 3 times previously so his dialogue still makes sense without having to place X:FC2 8 after X:FC 5.

As for placement around 19-23... There is a gap between 19 & 20 that hasn't been used yet where it might fit. If the Cerebro interface in Professor X's office is shown undamaged and working, then it would have to go between 21 & 22.
Last edited by metaldragon on Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9 & 11

Post by metaldragon » Thu May 01, 2008 4:51 pm

metaldragon wrote:
Paul Bourcier wrote:Now that you mention X:FC2 11...

The window for this issue in Marvel continuity actually is pretty narrow. It has to take place after FF 50 (1-14), given that the X-Men know about Galactus and the Ultimate Nullifier. It also explicitly occurs before Batroc's first appearance in TOS 75/2. Going from the Indexes and making some adjustments to handle continuity implants, I've placed FF 50 in early August of Year 4 and TOS 75/2 in September of Year 4. Also going from the Indexes, I have UX 19-23 and the first part of UX 24 occurring during the month between FF 50 (1-14) and TOS 75/2.

Placing X:FC2 11 somewhere in the range of UX 19-24 doesn't seem to be a problem for X:FC2 6/2, which precedes X:FC2 11, since I believe that was placed between UX 13 and 14. However, I think this placement of X:FC2 11 creates continuity problems for the preceeding X:FC2 8, which, if I've been following things correctly, is supposed to occur between UX 39 and 40. IIRC, X:FC2 6-8 is after X:FC 5, because X:FC 5 is the first time the X-Men saw Sentinels after UX 16. X:FC 5 may occur after X:FC 4 because of the jet reference, and given Doc Strange and Xavier's presence, X:FC 4 should be after UX 39. Is that right? If so, the weak link in that sequence may be the jet reference.
I think I concluded (Jan 23 post on page 2 of this thread) that X:FC2 8 CAN go just after X:FC2 6-7 because Marvel Girl's levitation stunt is (just) within the scope of her powers as shown in the UX issues leading up to this placement and the appearance of Thor does not necessarily mean it hast to go after X:FC 5. That bit in X:FC2 8 is in Thor's future, so from his perspective X:FC 5 is in his past. Iceman had encountered Thor 3 times previously so his dialogue still makes sense without having to place X:FC2 8 after X:FC 5.

As for placement around 19-23... There is a gap between 19 & 20 that hasn't been used yet where it might fit. If the Cerebro interface in Professor X's office is shown undamaged and working, then it would have to go between 21 & 22.
Finally picked up my copy... Since Cerebro isn't shown or even mentioned, X:FC2 11 could easily fit between UX 19 & 20. Another good reason for placing it there... this looks like the last appearance of the original thought-controlled jet from UX 1. The STOL jet is introduced in UX 20 so placing X:FC2 11 (where they crash it) here is actually kinda brilliant.

Just had another thought... if we place the Bernard the poet story in X:FCS 1 between X:FC2 8 and this issue (where we have the Dragon-Man story) it can be explained away as a symptom of Mysterio's Nexus water...! ;)
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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #6-8/9 & 11

Post by metaldragon » Thu May 01, 2008 7:10 pm

So, to do a recap of the series so far:

UX 1
XFC2 5/2 (Ouija board)
UX 2
X:FC2 5 (Hulk)
A 3
UX 3
[…]
UX 7 (1-6, p3)
X:FC 1-FB
UX 7 (6, p4-on)
UTSM 21
UTSM ’97
UX 8
X:FC 6-FB
X:FC 6 (Skrulls)
UX 9
UX 10
X:FC2 10-FB
X:FC2 10 (Scott solo mission)
UX 11
UX 12
UX 13
X:FC 7-FB
XMF 3
X:FC 7 (Angel & Scarlet Witch romance)
X:FC2 2 (Mastermind/Monster Island)
X:FC2 3 (Mastermind/Monster Island)
X:FC2 3/2 (Jean & Wanda hang out)
X:FC2 6/2 (Jean & Wanda vs Moleman)
X:FC2 9 (Black Widow & S.H.I.E.L.D.)
UX 14 (1-6)
FF@ 3 ~ M/H&L 1 ~ MARVELS 2
UX 14 (7-20)
UX 15
[…]
UX 18
X:FC 2 (Lizard)
X:FC 3 (Cerebro malfunction)
X:FC2 4 (Bobby & Hank road trip)
X:FC 8–FB
X:FC 8 (Gorilla Man)
X:FC2 6 (Sentinels/alien comet)
X:FC2 7 (Sentinels/alien comet)
X:FC2 8 (Man-Thing)~X:FC2 11-FB
X:FCS 1/5-FB (Dragon Man)
X:FC2 1 (FF)
UX 19
X:FC2 11 (Mysterio)
UX 20
UX 21
X:FC 1 (Arctic "field trip")
UX 22
[…]
UX 39
X:FC 5 (Thor)
X:FC 4 (Dr. Strange)
X:FCS 1/1 (Museum of Oddities)
X:FCS 1/3 (Bernard the poet)
UX 40

How does that look so far?

Re-read X:FC 1 again and I'm revising my opinion on it's placement. Bobby writes in his letter that he doesn't have a girlfriend, which would place it pre-UX 19. I wonder if it doesn't fit better earlier, say between XMF 3 & X:FC 7 maybe? Since the creative team have pretty much ignored the X-Men's Juggernaut induced injuries, I don't see how placing another issue in that gap will hurt. It makes a good introduction for the Cerebro AI interface and has Angel skipping class. Also, if that is Professor X's office, the desk is intact.
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