PPTSS 120 placement

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tlynch
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PPTSS 120 placement

Post by tlynch » Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:56 pm

PPTSS is currently listed in Spider-Man's chronology as occurring between ASM @20 and ASM 283, but there are at least two reasons why that's not possible.

1) Spider-Man is in his red suit.
2) More crucially, Glory Grant is still living in Peter's building, and while I don't recall exactly when she moved out, she did so well before this time period. (PPTSS 32, maybe?)

I didn't see any other chronological hints in the story (it being a somewhat generic fill-in from a chronology POV), but I think those two are enough to place the story well before its current placement, possibly dozens of issues beforehand.

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And in the same era...

Post by tlynch » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:08 pm

The chronology currently has ASM 284 taking place after WOSM 23-24, but Spider-Man's first appearance in ASM 284 is explicitly referenced as taking place right after PPTSS 122 (in the first panel in which Spidey appears, even!).

WOSM 24 does need to take place fairly close to this "Gang War" storyline in ASM 284-288, so I'd recommend that we just swap the two WOSM issues with the PPTSS issue in question.

Thus, this...

ASM 283
PPTSS 130
PPTSS 121
PPTSS 122
WOSM 23
WOSM 24
PPTSS 125
ASM 284

becomes this...

ASM 283
PPTSS 130
WOSM 23
WOSM 24
PPTSS 121
PPTSS 122

PPTSS 125
ASM 284

(The PPTSS 125 listing is for a two-page moment early in the book; I'm not sure it matters much where that goes, quite frankly.)

Anybody see a problem with that move?

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And another one...

Post by tlynch » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:50 am

WOSM 27 is listed as occurring right after WOSM 25, but in WOSM 27 Spider-Man is wearing his red-and-blue threads rather than the black costume. Since this is the period in which there was no red-and-blue costume, it must either take place before WOSM 17 or after ASM 300 -- and since there's absolutely no evidence in the story (an abysmal fill-in, quite honestly) that Peter is married, I'd stick it someplace before WOSM 17.

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Re: PPTSS 120 placement

Post by cweed4 » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:07 pm

WOSM 25, WOSM 27 and PP 29 also need shifting around there, too.

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Re: PPTSS 120 placement

Post by tlynch » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:39 pm

cweed4 wrote:WOSM 25, WOSM 27 and PP 29 also need shifting around there, too.
How so? I don't own PP 29, but WOSM 25 seems about as generic-black-costume as you can get.

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Re: PPTSS 120 placement

Post by cweed4 » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:48 pm

How about this?

PPTSS 106
WOSM 27
SWII 2

This keeps it after ASM 259 (return of classic costume) and before WOSM 17 (black suit only). These 2 issues present a convenient story gap w/out having to go pre-ASM 252. The only other continuity clue is Peter freelancing for the Bugle but that certainly doesn't narrow it down. I agree that it definitely seems to be a single Peter story. Hopefully this works because I wouldn't really want to re-read this comic again.


Regarding PP 29, it has Spidey (black suit) facing Hobgoblin, who comments that he is on assignment for his partner the Rose. The problem is they split up at the end of ASM 286. So, this appearance has to be moved ahead of that. The best fit would keep it in front of the whole "Gang War' storyline in ASM 284-288.

I have no problem putting PPTSS 122 after the second entry for WOSM 23 and WOSM 24. (Any particular reason why you're moving PPTSS 121 along with it?)

But, if you're going to move PPTSS 122 because it directly leads into ASM 284 then the initial listing for PPTSS 125 has to occur prior to it as well. That's actually a good thing though. Peter gets an eviction notice from Mrs. Muggins in that issue which conflicts with the earlier listing of M/FAN 42. That story, in which Peter mentions only having 2 more days before his eviction, has to be placed after the PPTSS 125 entry. So, just move #122 down past all of this and you get-

SPIDEY
PPTSS 121
WOSM 23 (11-24) added page breakdown
WOSM 24
PPTSS 125(1-13) added page breakdown
PP 29
M/FAN 42
PPTSS 122
ASM 284
ASM 285
ASM 286
ASM 287 (1-4) added page breakdown
PPTSS 123
FF 299
ASM 287
ASM 288
WOSM 25
PPTSS 125 (14-23) added page breakdown

As for WOSM 25 that is simply a better fit move. I don't like to break up a continuing story (eg Gang War) unless other issues are specifically referenced during them (eg PPTSS 123). This particular (bad) comic is a clear stand alone story with virtually no continuity references. It could easily be moved down to avoid further story interruption.
Last edited by cweed4 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PPTSS 120 placement

Post by cweed4 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:27 am

Back to your original question, I think I can find a place for PPTSS 120. Glory Grant does indeed move out of Peter's apartment building in PPTSS 32. My main assumption for placement is that Glory is not working for the Bugle issue 120. This is based solely on the scenes of Peter at the Bugle conferring w/ Robbie and Glory is nowhere in sight. This puts it at least prior to PPTSS 2 and probably before being fired from her modeling agency (ASM 158). That gets it pretty close to her first appearance in ASM 140.

A convenient side note here is that in "current" issues of Spidey comics Joe Robertson is the EIC at the Bugle (ever since ASM 251). So when Pete goes to the Bugle and deals w/ Robbie instead of JJJ in #120 that might need an explanation. Luckily, at the end of ASM 142 jolly Jonah takes off out of town for awhile. This makes for a nice little fit in-between stories to place this flashback issue. It also allows for a few interactions between Peter and Glory before the events of this story.

Spidey
ASM 141
ASM 142
PPTSS 120
M/TU 31
GSS-M 4

GRANT, GLORIA "GLORY"
{ASM 140} added 1st app. brackets
M/TU 30
ASM 142
PPTSS 120
ASM 158
ASM 163
PPTSS 1
ASM 164
PPTSS 2

ROBERTSON, JOE "ROBBIE"
ASM 141
ASM 142
PPTSS 120
ASM 143
ASM 144

MUGGINS, MAMIE
ASM 139
ASM 142
PPTSS 120
ASM 143
ASM 156
ASM 163

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Re: PPTSS 120 placement

Post by tlynch » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:54 am

cweed4 wrote:I have no problem putting PPTSS 122 after the second entry for WOSM 23 and WOSM 24. (Any particular reason why you're moving PPTSS 121 along with it?)
Not really, no -- it just felt right. I'm certainly fine keeping it where it is.

The rest of what you wrote all makes lots of sense -- as a bookkeeping note, you have an extra listing for PPTSS 125 at the end of your list, but other than that I think it works.

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Re: PPTSS 120 placement

Post by Russ Chappell » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:18 am

cweed4 wrote:My main assumption for placement is that Glory is not working for the Bugle issue 120. This is based solely on the scenes of Peter at the Bugle conferring w/ Robbie and Glory is nowhere in sight.
Make your assumptions based on evidence, rather than lack of evidence. The more likely assumption is that Glory is nowhere in sight because the story doesn't require her. We would prefer that stories be placed as close to their publication date as possible.

GRANT, GLORIA "GLORY"
{ASM 140} added 1st app. brackets
Brackets are only added to first published appearances when the first published appearance is not the same as the chronologically first appearance.


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Re: PPTSS 120 placement

Post by cweed4 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:27 am

Administrator wrote:Brackets are only added to first published appearances when the first published appearance is not the same as the chronologically first appearance.
Okey-dokey.
Administrator wrote:Make your assumptions based on evidence, rather than lack of evidence. The more likely assumption is that Glory is nowhere in sight because the story doesn't require her. We would prefer that stories be placed as close to their publication date as possible.
I would have preferred it wasn't so complicated. However, the issue in question came out in 1986 while she moved out 7 years earlier (real time) during PPTSS 32 (released in '79). Since we have to go back by that much time just to start looking for placement I don't think such preferences need be considered any more. The suggested placement goes back another 4 years to the release of ASM 142 in 1975. That doesn't seem like much more of a stretch.

Besides, Glory's appearance, while limited to just a few panels, is important to the story. She acts as the conscience of this morality tale that nudges Peter's involvement into the situation. In that sense I interpreted her absense from the Bugle scene to be a relevent hint. As tlynch noted, there really is no other continuity clues to go on here.

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