X-Men: First Class v2 #12-15

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #12-14

Post by metaldragon » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:47 am

A couple of new things...

Looks like this storyline continues into X:FC2 15. The teaser at the end implies that Medusa will make an appearance!

It is revealed at the end that the "Aaron Stack" in this issue is actually X-50. Likely his "neural engine", as Dr. Stack calls it, is re-used and rebuilt into the X-51 unit aka Machine Man since he is also named "Aaron Stack". Note: X-50 is never referred to as "Machine Man" in this story so if it's decided that X-50 gets a separate entry from X-51 he should only be referred to as X-50 and Aaron Stack, not Machine Man. The last panel of this story shows X-51 in the process of being built so this may be a new panel and would fit between panels of Machine Man's origin. Anyone know?

The second story has pages 2 & 3 switched (it shows Bobby and Professor X joining the conversation on page 3 yet they are already there on page 2 as things stand now). It also shows a panel of what might be the fight with Ymir from X:FC 5. That would push the placement of that issue sometime before this storyline which makes things awkward with the Blackbird jet. Other events referenced: The Lizard (X:FC 2, no new info), Monster Island (X:FC2 2-3), Warren & Wanda's romance + Angel & Quicksilver's fight (X:FC 7, nothing new), Angel flying out the window to avoid an exam on the Introduction to Ethics in Intercultural Economics (new, needs a placement), Warren bringing them pizza (also new), Angel caught in Spider-Man's web (new, possibly First Class story that hasn't "happened" yet? wearing First Class uniform), the aftermath of Hank & Bobby's road trip (X:FC2 4, this is new, should fit shortly after the last panel of that story), Angel rolls Blob down a river (new, possibly First Class event that hasn't happened yet? Blob is wearing his post-UX 141 unitard with belt instead of his usual shorts from this period), Angel pulls off Magneto's helmet (has he ever done this? I know he's pulled off Juggernaut's helmet. Possibly First Class event that hasn't happened yet?), Angel tries to rescue Marvel Girl by grabbing her ankles and her costume (First Class version) rips off from the waist down & she falls into some bushes while Angel is left holding the bottom half of it.
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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #12-15

Post by Somebody » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:12 pm

metaldragon wrote:It also shows a panel of what might be the fight with Ymir from X:FC 5. That would push the placement of that issue sometime before this storyline which makes things awkward with the Blackbird jet.
Repeat of X:FC 5 (15:4) from an alternate angle, with a bit of a glitch (the X:FC2 14/2 panel shows them just in their FC costumes - but the X:FC 5 panel has them wearing big coats over their costumes). Ways to spin this glitch into it being a completely different story would be appreciated.

Presumably, next issue will see Angel returning since they haven't commissioned a cover without him, as they did for this two-parter. Here's the solicit text:
Is she a bad girl? Is she a mutant? Does even she know what or who she is? Is that her real hair? The mysterious MEDUSA has escaped the reach of the Fantastic Four, only to run right into the home of the Uncanny X-Men!
That appears to narrow placement significantly all by itself, if it's before the other Inhumans find her...

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #12-15

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:43 pm

metaldragon wrote:
It is revealed at the end that the "Aaron Stack" in this issue is actually X-50. Likely his "neural engine", as Dr. Stack calls it, is re-used and rebuilt into the X-51 unit aka Machine Man since he is also named "Aaron Stack". Note: X-50 is never referred to as "Machine Man" in this story so if it's decided that X-50 gets a separate entry from X-51 he should only be referred to as X-50 and Aaron Stack, not Machine Man.
Not so. X-50 is referred to as "Machine Man" twice -- once on the recap page and once by X-50 himself; they're his final words, in fact. So does this make X-50 both Machine Man I and Aaron Stack I, with X-51 being Machine Man II and Aaron Stack II?


I now have so many versions of X:FC and X:FC2 chronology that I've lost track of where we are on this. Does anyone have an updated, accurate chronology... perhaps annotated?
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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #12-15

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:57 pm

Boy am I glad that I didn't read this until I read the issue! :) I really enjoyed these two issues. I didn't see the twist coming, and it ties in very neatly with Machine Man's origin. I especially liked X-50's reaction to losing his face and Abel's decision to deal with that in his next X-series robot.
Paul Bourcier wrote:So does this make X-50 both Machine Man I and Aaron Stack I, with X-51 being Machine Man II and Aaron Stack II?
Absolutely:

STACK, ABEL
X51 12-FB
*X: FC2 13
*X: FC2 14

2001 8

MACHINE MAN/X-50/AARON STACK
X: FC2 13
X: FC2 14

MACHINE MAN II/X-51/AARON STACK II
*X: FC2 14
{2001 8}
2001 9
-Daron Jensen

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #12-15

Post by metaldragon » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:26 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:metaldragon wrote:
It is revealed at the end that the "Aaron Stack" in this issue is actually X-50. Likely his "neural engine", as Dr. Stack calls it, is re-used and rebuilt into the X-51 unit aka Machine Man since he is also named "Aaron Stack". Note: X-50 is never referred to as "Machine Man" in this story so if it's decided that X-50 gets a separate entry from X-51 he should only be referred to as X-50 and Aaron Stack, not Machine Man.
Not so. X-50 is referred to as "Machine Man" twice -- once on the recap page and once by X-50 himself; they're his final words, in fact. So does this make X-50 both Machine Man I and Aaron Stack I, with X-51 being Machine Man II and Aaron Stack II?


I now have so many versions of X:FC and X:FC2 chronology that I've lost track of where we are on this. Does anyone have an updated, accurate chronology... perhaps annotated?
Woops! You're right. Missed the "recap" bit on the first page of this issue where it says "Machine Man's joined the team". Thanks! I just took Aaron's final words to be a nudge-wink from the writer, the core of his "cognitive dissonance" spoken out loud that actually "gives" the future X-51 his hero name. Sigh. Here's me thinking Mr. Parker was being clever!


So... if we count the second story as being cannon, that places this story arc (X:FC2 12-15-ish) in the post-UX 18 area. Which means Warren's parents get mind wiped after UX 18 and meet Warren's "classmates" again for the 1st time in X:FC2 12. Ouch.

That, or it looks like X:FC 2 & X:FC2 4 are going into the gap between UX 13 & 14 which drives the final nail in the coffin for the first 2 pages and first panel of page three in UX 14. I wish there had been another way...

OK... I'll attempt an updated chronology...

UX 1
XFC2 5/2 (Ouija board)
UX 2
X:FC2 5 (Hulk) ...or is this between UX 1 & 2?
A 3
UX 3
[…]
UX 7 (1-6, p3)
X:FC 1-FB (Bobby discovers Scott can't shut off powers and that Cyclops has been made team leader.)
UX 7 (6, p4-on)
UTSM 21
UTSM ’97
UX 8
X:FC 6-FB
X:FC 6 (Skrulls)
UX 9
UX 10
X:FC2 10-FB
X:FC2 10 (Scott solo mission) - This (and the flashback) might have to move if the X:FC2 13/2-FB takes place during X:FC2 2-3.
UX 11
UX 12
UX 13
XMF 3
X:FC 1 (Arctic "field trip"/Iceman's letter)
*X:FC 2 (Lizard) ~ X:FC2 14/2-FB
[possible placement for X:FC 5?]
X:FC 7-FB
X:FC 7 (Angel & Scarlet Witch romance) ~ X:FC2 14/2-FB
X:FC 8–FB
X:FC 8 (Gorilla Man)
X:FC2 2-3 (Mastermind/Monster Island) ~ X:FC2 14/2-FB
X:FC2 3/2 (Jean & Wanda hang out)
*X:FC2 4 (Bobby & Hank road trip)
X:FC2 14/2-FB (W confronts B & H about his water filled car)
X:FC2 6/2 (Jean & Wanda vs Moleman)
X:FC2 9 (Black Widow & S.H.I.E.L.D.)
X:FC2 12-FB
X:FC2 12 (Aunt Mimi/Worthingtons meet X-Men for 1st time)
X:FC2 13-14 (Machine Man)
X:FC2 14/2 (remembering Angel)
X:FC2 15 (Medusa) - coming soon!
UX 14 (1-6)
FF@ 3 ~ M/H&L 1 ~ MARVELS 2
UX 14 (7-20)
UX 15
[…]
UX 18
*[X:FC 2 moved]
X:FC 3 (Cerebro malfunction)
*[X:FC2 4 moved]
X:FC2 6 (Sentinels/alien comet)
X:FC2 7 (Sentinels/alien comet)
X:FC2 8 (Man-Thing) ~ X:FC2 11-FB (Mysterio BTS stealing swamp water)
X:FCS 1/5-FB (Dragon Man)
X:FC2 1 (FF)
UX 19
X:FC2 11 (Mysterio)
UX 20
UX 21
UX 22
[…]
UX 39
X:FC 5 (Thor) - this may have to move before X:FC2 14/2...
X:FC 4 (Dr. Strange)
X:FCS 1/1 (Museum of Oddities)
X:FCS 1/3 (Bernard the poet) - it's possible these 2 stories could fit between UX 18 & 19 too if Professor X shuts down Bernard's powers...
UX 40

Not sure where the exam, pizza, Spider-Man, Blob, Magneto, and costume ripping rescue flashbacks belong. At least we know the Magneto one must go before UX 11. Possibly during their off-panel "appearance" in JIM encounter with Magneto? The Blob appearance has to be sometime after UX 7 (where he regains his memory). If that other flashback isn't the Ymir/Thor story, it might be a new incident. Hmm. There IS a short story in the "Five Decades of the X-Men" short story anthology about a guy with frost powers that takes place shortly after UX 1... :wink:

So... makes sense?


PS. I guess X:FC2 12/2 could go just before the main story. Anyone know where the Angel flashbacks belong? Or do we treat this story like the the strips in the Special?
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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #12-15

Post by metaldragon » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:26 pm

X:FC2 14 issue begins just after dropping off Dr. Stack- they are still talking about him.

Medusa appears here sometime before FF 44. I don't know the FF stories well I'm afraid. She describes that the Wizard had used a mind control device on the Thing in the Frightful 4's last encounter with the FF. She manages to escape at the end of that story in one of the Wizard's (damaged) flying saucers by herself. Which issue of FF is this? Does this take place before or after FF@3? That will cause more shuffling of this story arc if it's after. The Wizard manages to escape the police (without the rest of the Frightful 4) and follow her.

X:FC2 15 ends with her leaving, possibly with the Wizard (she steals one of Xavier's cars!) to find the FF. It's possible the Wizard manages to get mind control over her again after this if there are more stories with her still as a member as the Frightful 4 after the story described above.

Angel returns! Yay!
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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #12-15

Post by dimadick » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:03 am

metaldragon wrote:
Medusa appears here sometime before FF 44. I don't know the FF stories well I'm afraid. She describes that the Wizard had used a mind control device on the Thing in the Frightful 4's last encounter with the FF. She manages to escape at the end of that story in one of the Wizard's (damaged) flying saucers by herself. Which issue of FF is this? Does this take place before or after FF@3? That will cause more shuffling of this story arc if it's after. The Wizard manages to escape the police (without the rest of the Frightful 4) and follow her.

X:FC2 15 ends with her leaving, possibly with the Wizard (she steals one of Xavier's cars!) to find the FF. It's possible the Wizard manages to get mind control over her again after this if there are more stories with her still as a member as the Frightful 4 after the story described above.
Her only appearances as a member of the Frightful Four are "Fantastic Four" vol. 1 #36 (March, 1965), "Fantastic Four" vol. 1 #38 (May, 1965), "Journey Into Mystery" vol. 1 #116 (May, 1965), "Fantastic Four" vol. 1 #41 - 45 (August - December, 1965). So the X-Men story should fit between this hand full of appearances.

Note that #36 is the issue where Reed Richards and Susan Storm publicly announce their engagement. In attendance at the engagement party were Alicia Masters, Angel, Beast, Captain America, Cyclops, Giant-Man, Human Torch, Iceman, Iron Man, Marvel Girl, Professor X, Rick Jones, Thing, Thor and Wasp. Spider-Man was not invited but does make a cameo, stealing a piece of cake. No mind control for the Thing.

#38, involves the Frightful Four luring their Fantastic counterparts to an uninhabited island where the Wizard has placed a nuclear bomb. They escape and leave the Fantastic team to face the music. The bomb does explode but an early use of Susan's force fields shields them from much of its effects. They are just left unconcious and their powers are temporarily turned off. No mind control involved.

#116 is a mere cameo and no member of the Fantastic Four is actually involved.

In #41, the Thing quits the Fantastic Four and moves to New Jersey. Where he is located by the Frightful Four and falls under the influence of their "hypnosis machine". When the Fantastic Three come in pursuit of their former member, they find themselves under attack by five opponents and are easily defeated. The issue ends with the Wizard convincing the Thing that Mr. Fantastic is responsible fr turning him into a monster and ruining his life. So it is only fail that the Thing should take revenge, killing his former ally. The issue ends in a cliffhanger over the fate of Reed. So there is where the mind control comes in. The X-Men tale has to follow it.

In #42, while the Frightful Five are focused on Mr. Fantastic, the Invisible Girl and the Human Torch escape their bonds and counter attack. They manage to free Reed who rejoins the fight. A complex struggle follows. By the end of the issue Reed and Susan have captured Ben and are transporting him back to base using anti-gravity disks they stole from the Wizard. Wizard has brainwashed Johnny and the two of them give chase to the Richards-Storm couple. Medusa, Sandman and Trapster are out for the count. The issue ends in a cliffhanger.

In #43, the other members of the Frightful Four recover and find out the Human Torch is actually faking his hypnosis. They gang up on him and take him prisoner. Reed and Susan manage to deprogram Ben. By the end of the issue the Fantastic Four are back together. Sandman, Trapster and Wizard have been captured and offered to the police. Medusa alone escapes. I guess the X-Men story immediately follows. Reed and Susan comment on their scheduled wedding.

The storyline is interrupted by the wedding of Mr. Richards and Ms. Storm in "Fantastic Four Annual" #3 (1965). For some reason no member of the Frightful Four attends the wedding. The storyline continues in #44 where Medusa is the only Frightful member to appear. She is being pursued by fellow Inhuman Gorgon and recruits the Dragon Man to defend herself. entire building to collapse under the FF's feet.

In #45, Sandman and Trapster are stuck in the same cell, waiting for Medusa to rescue them. Wizard is unaccounted for. Medusa has a family reunion involving Black Bolt, Crystal, Gorgon, Karnak, Lockjaw and Triton. At this point she rejoins the Inhumans and leaves her teammates hanging.

I would suggest the X-Men story to be placed between FF #43 and #44. How more obvious coult it get?

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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #12-15

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:17 am

It most definitely does have to occur between FF 43 and 44. From the look of things, XFC2 15 appears to begin the day after FF 43, but this may not be so.

Metaldragon places XFC2 15 just before UX 14 in the X-Men's chronology. The Official Marvel index to the Fantastic Four places UX 13 after FF 43, which means that the tail end of UX 11 must occur after FF 43.

So if we go by metaldragon's chronology, all of these stories occur between FF 43 and 44:
UX 11
UX 12
UX 13
XMF 3
X:FC 1 (Arctic "field trip"/Iceman's letter)
*X:FC 2 (Lizard) ~ X:FC2 14/2-FB
[possible placement for X:FC 5?]
X:FC 7-FB
X:FC 7 (Angel & Scarlet Witch romance) ~ X:FC2 14/2-FB
X:FC 8––FB
X:FC 8 (Gorilla Man)
X:FC2 2-3 (Mastermind/Monster Island) ~ X:FC2 14/2-FB
X:FC2 3/2 (Jean & Wanda hang out)
*X:FC2 4 (Bobby & Hank road trip)
X:FC2 14/2-FB (W confronts B & H about his water filled car)
X:FC2 6/2 (Jean & Wanda vs Moleman)X:FC2 9 (Black Widow & S.H.I.E.L.D.)
X:FC2 12-FB
X:FC2 12 (Aunt Mimi/Worthingtons meet X-Men for 1st time)
X:FC2 13-14 (Machine Man)
X:FC2 14/2 (remembering Angel)
X:FC2 15 (Medusa)
UX 14 (1-6)
FF@ 3 ~ M/H&L 1 ~ MARVELS 2
UX 15
[……]
UX 18

That means Medusa was wandering around in the hovercraft she stole from the Wizard for quite a while after FF 43. Cyclops' remark in XFC2 15 that the FF "just incarcerated" the Frightful Four needs a liberal interpretation of "just." And the Wizard took his time tracking Medusa down after busting free of the police in the hospital after FF 43.

All the above stories would have to occur during a fairly short period of time during the June that Reed and Sue were married.
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Re: X-Men: First Class v2 #12-15

Post by metaldragon » Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:35 am

From the time references in this run of First Class, I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't at least 3 weeks of events taking place between UX 13 & 14. Can that much time take place between FF 43 & 44? I realize that both FF and UX Indexes place UX 13 between those two issues but is it at all possible that Torch's appearance in UX 13 couldn't fit in a gap closer to just after FF 36 to give these stories a bit more breathing room or is there a reference there which locks it in stone?
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