Venom in Spider-Man/Red Sonja

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

Moderators: Paul Bourcier, Kevin W., Col_Fury, Arthur, JephYork, Somebody

Locked
tobyoryamcha
Hero
Hero
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 3:17 pm

Venom in Spider-Man/Red Sonja

Post by tobyoryamcha » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:34 pm

So You seem to have figured out the place for it in spideys continuity but any idea where it fits on Venoms page I own tonnes of venom comics if theres any way i can work that out for myself/others i'd like to. As youve already said its pre MK:1 for the V-man and its at a period when he doesnt like spidey so in theory its easy to place it for him but it has to match up with the stuff for spidey as they are constantly in each others books, any ideas?
Last edited by Somebody on Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Split from Spider-Man/Red Sonja 1-5 in Issue Analysis, since that topic's from December last year and was due to be archived soon.

User avatar
Somebody
Director
Director
Posts: 3035
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Venom in Spider-Man/Red Sonja

Post by Somebody » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:47 am

As was said in the Spider-Man/Red Sonja 1-5 thread, it must fit between ASM 515 (15) and MKSM 1 for Spidey, which is a tighter placement than for Venom (as Venom doesn't appear between those, while Spider-Man does). It's basically Venom's last appearance before MKSM, after the Venom vs Carnage mini and Spectacular Spider-Man v2 #1-5.

tobyoryamcha
Hero
Hero
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 3:17 pm

Re: Venom in Spider-Man/Red Sonja

Post by tobyoryamcha » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:30 pm

Hang on a sec that cant be right. In those spectac issues Eddie is bald and cancer ridden and wants to die.

The symbiote who is increasingly unstable wants Spidey or someone else and needs more adrenaline then normal its amoral and leaving for dead people its drained. Its apparently preggers again which HAS to be after the venom ongoing.

However in Red Sonja Eddie is healthy has hair and still wants to be with the symbiote.

The symbiote shows no mental decline classic appearence and powers. And likewise wants to be with eddie.

I think Im a bit of an expert on venom/eddie/symibiotes. I trust your oppinion of mine on where it is in spideys chronology but This series HAS to be pre spectac and almost certainly pre Venom 1-18

Its app is either

Asm Vol.2 23
[here]
Venom 11

or

Venom 18
[here]
PPTSS Vol 2. 1

While spideys character is more constant throughout his life and Sonja was plucked from the time stream it matters less where this places for them then it does for the V-man.

User avatar
Somebody
Director
Director
Posts: 3035
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Venom in Spider-Man/Red Sonja

Post by Somebody » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:06 pm

It matters where it places for Spidey because it MUST be placed while (a) he's married to Mary Jane, (b) Mary Jane is a stage actress and (c) before MKSM 1. (b) and (c) leave a very narrow window (one of your attempted placements occurs while MJ is "dead", and I'm pretty sure the other one is at the tail-end of her and Peter's separation; and are both immediately out of the window because of (a) as a result, before you even reach (b) or (c)).

Eddie, OTOH, doesn't appear bald or especially cancer-ridden in MKSM before he gives up the symbiote, so he can appear like that in the transformed world of SM/RS. QED.

tobyoryamcha
Hero
Hero
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 3:17 pm

Re: Venom in Spider-Man/Red Sonja

Post by tobyoryamcha » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:56 pm

so there is the marvel knights series when Brock has hair again before his appearence in sensational where he is again bald to chemo. However the hair wasnt the only problem as of spectaular 1-5 eddie didnt want to be with the now fully evil symbiote anymore and sells it despite needing it to be live.

So for the red sonja mini to go inbetween would ingore that after kulan stole it once it got free it wouldnt go back to eddie it would use the chance to escape. It chosing to go to eddie after kulan gath directly contradicts spec 5 where spidey tricked and forced it to merge with him even though it didnt want to.

Yet in the mini hes all like "i want to be back with brock which it hasnt been since the conclusion of venoms ongoing.
----
This then leaves two possibilities.

A) MJ this was Mj's first acting gig
B) MJ wasnt a stage actress anymore but it was a one off play I still do cover shifts at my old job sometimes. One your timeline criterias was MJ had to be a stage actress but just becuase she wasnt doing that the most or regularly doesnt mean she could never in no way take part in a drama production.
C) This is non cannon.

Dont get me wrong I want it to fit but for it to work you need a no prize style explanation to convince me
-----
Im just saying it cant fit their in Venoms time line just cause its convinient for spidey if it cant go earlier for spidey then when is most convinient for peters chronology alone then its non cannon due to plot holes.
Last edited by Somebody on Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merging treble-post

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6320
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Venom in Spider-Man/Red Sonja

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:35 am

Because of events in Spider-Man's life, we have this series of events:

Spectacular Spider-Man 1-5
Amazing Spider-Man 515
Marvel Knights Spider-Man 1

Because of elements in the Spider-Man/Red Sonja mini, we know that this has to occur between ASM 515 & MKSM 1, which gives us:

Spectacular Spider-Man 1-5
Amazing Spider-Man 515
Spider-Man/Red Sonja 1-5
Marvel Knights Spider-Man 1

There seems to be two problems with Venom for this placement. (1)Eddie has cancer at this point and has no hair. (2)Neither Eddie nor the symbiote want to be with the other one anymore at this point; the symbiote is killing Eddie and the symbiote wants more than what Eddie can give it.

(1)is easier to explain away; Eddie has hair again in MKSM 1. MKSM 1 proves that Eddie's hair grew back, so it stands to reason that he can have hair in Spider-Man/Red Sonja 1-5.

(2)doesn't make sense at first, because both Eddie and the symbiote had a chance to separate. Why would they want to reunite during Spider-Man/Red Sonja 1-5? We know that when Kulan Gath changed a portion of New York, people's memories were altered; they thought they were living in the Middle Ages. It COULD be that whatever Kulan Gath did made Eddie & the symbiote forget they didn't want to be together anymore. But when New York reverted to normal, both Eddie & the symbiote remembered they wanted to separate. Therefore, Eddie later sold the symbiote in MKSM when he had the chance. This would give us roughly:

Spectacular Spider-Man 1-5 (Eddie has cancer, wants to separate from symbiote)
Amazing Spider-Man 515 (MJ starts stage acting)
Spider-Man/Red Sonja 1-5 (MJ acting on stage, Eddie's hair has grown back, Kulan Gath's spell makes him forget about cancer)
Marvel Knights Spider-Man 1 (Eddie remembers cancer, still has hair, sells symbiote)
tobyoryamcha wrote:I want it to fit but for it to work you need a no prize style explanation to convince me
Is that No-Prize worthy? :)
-Daron Jensen

tobyoryamcha
Hero
Hero
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 3:17 pm

Re: Venom in Spider-Man/Red Sonja

Post by tobyoryamcha » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:51 pm

I guess we will have to go from that they forgot they hated each other.

Its a tough one everything points to being earlier like during one of his mini series but i accpet the contradictory neccesities in spidey placement.

His hair prescene hair style size and colour of venom personality attidues and characterisations it really is a strech to put it after spectac 1-5 or even after his 18 issue series.

But I guess I will have to go with your consensus im sure marvel have said it is cannon somewhere but damn thats going to annoy me to the grave.

Locked