Spider-Man Family Vol. 2 7

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Spider-Man Family Vol. 2 7

Post by newtron » Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:22 am

There seem to be analyses for every issue of this book except 7. Perhaps my searching skills are just letting me down, but I think this was needed.

Story 1:
Looter's Quest
Plot: Karl Kesel, Todd Dezago, Mark Waid

Basically a series of wacky adventures while the Looter looks for the twin of his meteor.

Characters:
The Looter/Meteor Man (Norton G. Fester), Spider-Man (Peter Benjamin Parker), The Thing (Benjamin J. Grimm), Franklin Benjamin Richards, Mr. Fantastic (Reed Richards), Invisible Girl/Invisible Woman (Sue Storm Richards), The Human Torch II (Johnny Storm), Stegron (Vincent Stegron), Ka-Zar (Kevin Plunder), Shanna II (Shanna O'Hara Plunder), Zabu, Wong, Dr. Strange II (Dr. Stephen Vincent Strange)

Unnamed people on the street, unnamed carjacker and victim, unnamed cops, unnamed Institute employees, a wasp (not The Wasp), dinosaurs, unnamed S.H.I.E.L.D. agents

The Looter's meteor is also treated as a character -- the narration says "And somewhere, deep down inside its crenellated crevices...the meteor does remember...remembers a time when it streaked through the heavens, one of the smallest meteors in a wondrous, glorious shower..." and so on. This is how we're taken into a flashback of the meteor flying through space and crashing on Earth. Throughout the whole story, the Looter is shown having conversations with his meteor. It may be possible that the meteor is sentient and that one of the powers the meteor's gas bestowed on him was an actual ability to communicate with it.

Page-by-Page:
page 1: night. the looter flies through new york with his balloon, lands on the institute for seismo-harmonic studies.
page 2: the looter talks to his meteor. flashback to the meteor flying through space, the looter discovering it.
page 3. flashback continued, the looter getting sprayed with the meteor's gases, wearing his costume. present: the looter breaks into the institute.
page 4. spidey, bored, bounces off the roof of a van.
page 5. spidey swings around, spider-sense goes off. a thug is committing a carjacking.
page 6. spidey stops the carjacking, swings by the institute, recognizes the looter's balloon.
page 7. inside, the looter has the staff tied up and is trying to bombard his meteor with some crazy science beams. spidey yanks the meteor away. for some reason there is a wasp flying around the looter's head.
page 8. the looter threatens a lady, spidey returns the meteor.
page 9. the lady starts to fall into a pit, spidey rescues her. the looter escapes in the confusion.
page 10. the fantastic four and franklin are having a family tv night at the baxter building.
page 11. spidey shows up, rings the doorbell, asks to be let in. when the torch goes to let him in, the looter shows up and flash guns them.
page 12. the looter gets inside the baxter building, the ff and spidey go looking for him and find him in reed's lab.
page 13. everybody has a nice chat.
page 14. spidey and the ff confer, the looter sneaks off and steals ben's sky-cycle.
page 15. ben, johnny and spidey take off in the fantasticar to the savage land to find the looter. a long time passes while they travel -- there's a sunrise and daybreak in there.
page 16. day. they arrive in the savage land.
page 17. the looter is trying to sweet-talk stegron.
page 18. thing and spidey rescue the looter from a velociraptor, stegron gets pissed.
page 19. the good guys fight some dinosaurs and stegron.
page 20. the looter sneaks off up stegron's temple. more fighting of dinosaurs.
page 21. more fighting of dinosaurs. ka-zar, shanna, and zabu show up.
page 22. everybody confronts the looter at the top of the temple.
page 23. everybody tries to convince the looter to give up his quest. he tricks them and takes off...
page 24. ...through a portal. spidey, torch, thing, and the fantasticar follow.
page 25. the good guys arrive outside dr. strange's sanctum sanctorum. wong tells spider-man to take off his shoes. inside, they find dr. strange having tea with the looter.
page 26. strange agrees to help the looter, uses the all-seeing eye of agamotto to find the second meteor.
page 27. the looter runs out, takes off in the fantasticar. strange prevents the guys from stopping him.
page 28. sunset. the fantasticar has been programmed to return to the baxter building, where the looter finds reed and sue waiting for him.
page 29. dr. strange, ben, johnny, and spidey arrive and have yet another talking-to with the looter.
page 30. a bunch of shield agents drop out of the sky and announce that the looter and his meteor are one of shield's top priorities. the grab him and take him away.

Continuity / Placement Clues and Notes:
- takes place over the course of approximately 24 hours, from one night to the next.
- the looter is still the looter, not the meteor man, so this must come before m/tu 33. he "rechristened" himself the meteor man in the main part of m/tu 33, in honor of his new-found freedom after breaking out of jail in m/tu 33-fb. this implies that the main story in m/tu 33 follows the flashback pretty closely, and that this story should precede m/tu 33-fb as well.
- spidey knows stegron and has tangled with him, putting this after m/tu 19.
- spidey also knows (or knows of) shanna, though i don't think they'd ever met in this time period. i don't know much about her. was she around in the savage land at this time, or publicly known?
- franklin richards is a kid, but not a baby. i don't know if that makes sense for this time period.
- based on people's clothing, it's probably spring or fall (or maybe a cool summer night).

I did some cleanup on the Looter's early chronology. I only looked at ASM 36, M/TU 33 & 34, PPTSS 41, and this issue. The rest I assume are correct.
Page numbers are ignoring the non-story splash page in ASM 36.

LOOTER/NORTON G. FESTER
SMF2 7/1 (2:5)-FB
PPTSS 41 (10:1)-FB
{ASM 36 (1:2)}
SMF2 7/1 (2:6)-FB
ASM 36 (1:3-1:6)
SMF2 7/1 (3:1)-FB
ASM 36 (1:7)
PPTSS 41 (10:2)-FB
ASM 36 (2:1)
PPTSS 41 (10:3)-FB
ASM 36 (2:2-2:6)
PPTSS 41 (10:4)-FB
ASM 36 (3-19)
M/TU 33-FB
M/TU 33
M/TU 34
...
(There's also two flashback panels in PPTSS 41 that I'm having trouble placing, page 10 panels 5 and 6.)

Any other placement suggestions?


Story 2: Reprint of Venom: Lethal Protector #1
Story 3: Reprint of Spider-Man: Death & Destiny #1
Story 4: Spider-Man J - "The Moth & The Flame". Is anyone interested in an analysis of this? I could try, but I've never read Spider-Man J before.
the spider-man project: http://spiderman.whiskeyclone.net

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Re: Spider-Man Family Vol. 2 7

Post by Somebody » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:50 pm

newtron wrote:- the looter is still the looter, not the meteor man, so this must come before m/tu 33. he "rechristened" himself the meteor man in the main part of m/tu 33, in honor of his new-found freedom after breaking out of jail in m/tu 33-fb. this implies that the main story in m/tu 33 follows the flashback pretty closely, and that this story should precede m/tu 33-fb as well.
Ngh-ngh. He's been the Looter every time DeZago's used him, starting in the 90s Sensational Spider-Man series. [This issue made it the *third time in a row* he's ended a Looter story with a '"Huh? This isn't rock. It's--" "HAND IT OVER!"' moment over one or the other of his meteors. This time, I considered it pretty unforgivable.]

I think you're also being a bit literal over the Looter's treatment of his meteors as sentient. He *is* a "Part-Time Nut", after all - and FB narration of the sort you mention isn't so uncommon in reference to inanimate objects.

Given the costumes - the F4 are in the Mike Wieringo variants of their Carlos Pacheco costumes (most noticeable on the Thing, with shorts rather than full trousers), Spider-Man in his red'n'blues - the FF in the Baxter Building as normal, and with Dr Strange fully powered, in his classic costume, in a Sanctum which isn't even superficially ruined, that gives the early bound as near the end of Weiringo's F4 run, an "easy" late bound as The Other, and an absolute late bound of Civil War (easy vs. absolute because of Spider-Man's costume - he COULD have switched the Iron Spider costume to classic mode, but Occam's Razor says you should only make that kind of assumption if you absolutely must, and I see no reason to force that placement).

I'd place immediately before FNSM 1 for Spider-Man, and let all the other placements fall as they will from that barring any urgent reason to place otherwise.

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Re: Spider-Man Family Vol. 2 7

Post by newtron » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:20 pm

Somebody wrote:Ngh-ngh. He's been the Looter every time DeZago's used him, starting in the 90s Sensational Spider-Man series. [This issue made it the *third time in a row* he's ended a Looter story with a '"Huh? This isn't rock. It's--" "HAND IT OVER!"' moment over one or the other of his meteors. This time, I considered it pretty unforgivable.]
interesting. that certainly opens things up considerably for placement. what were the other stories he did this with?
Somebody wrote:I think you're also being a bit literal over the Looter's treatment of his meteors as sentient. He *is* a "Part-Time Nut", after all - and FB narration of the sort you mention isn't so uncommon in reference to inanimate objects.
yeah, you're probably right. it seems like a theme of this story was heroes giving looter the benefit of the doubt, thinking he might not be as crazy as spider-man said. perhaps i was just falling into the same trap. it certainly would be interesting, though, and there was supposed to be biological matter in that meteor right from the beginning... :D
Somebody wrote:Given the costumes - the F4 are in the Mike Wieringo variants of their Carlos Pacheco costumes (most noticeable on the Thing, with shorts rather than full trousers), Spider-Man in his red'n'blues - the FF in the Baxter Building as normal, and with Dr Strange fully powered, in his classic costume, in a Sanctum which isn't even superficially ruined, that gives the early bound as near the end of Weiringo's F4 run, an "easy" late bound as The Other, and an absolute late bound of Civil War (easy vs. absolute because of Spider-Man's costume - he COULD have switched the Iron Spider costume to classic mode, but Occam's Razor says you should only make that kind of assumption if you absolutely must, and I see no reason to force that placement).
cool. i usually forget to look at costume design for some reason, probably because i'm not familiar enough with the changes the FF have had.

thanks somebody!
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Re: Spider-Man Family Vol. 2 7

Post by JephYork » Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:21 am

Plus, it's a salute to Mike Weiringo, so placing it at the end of his run isn't such a bad idea...

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Re: Spider-Man Family Vol. 2 7

Post by Somebody » Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:41 am

newtron wrote:
Somebody wrote:Ngh-ngh. He's been the Looter every time DeZago's used him, starting in the 90s Sensational Spider-Man series. [This issue made it the *third time in a row* he's ended a Looter story with a '"Huh? This isn't rock. It's--" "HAND IT OVER!"' moment over one or the other of his meteors. This time, I considered it pretty unforgivable.]
interesting. that certainly opens things up considerably for placement. what were the other stories he did this with?
Sensational SM v1 #8 & #27.
newtron wrote:
Somebody wrote:I think you're also being a bit literal over the Looter's treatment of his meteors as sentient. He *is* a "Part-Time Nut", after all - and FB narration of the sort you mention isn't so uncommon in reference to inanimate objects.
yeah, you're probably right. it seems like a theme of this story was heroes giving looter the benefit of the doubt, thinking he might not be as crazy as spider-man said. perhaps i was just falling into the same trap. it certainly would be interesting, though, and there was supposed to be biological matter in that meteor right from the beginning... :D
It's not impossible, but I'd rather not push it :)
jephyork wrote:Plus, it's a salute to Mike Weiringo, so placing it at the end of his run isn't such a bad idea...
I know, but that puts it into the Civil War build with the Iron Spider costume, et al - and that may not be impossible, but it feels forced, which is why I put it at the beginning of his FNSM run. Maybe at the end of his F4 run would be better, since Waid co-wrote this?

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Re: Spider-Man Family Vol. 2 7

Post by JephYork » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:55 am

Wait ... I *meant* his F4 run. Sorry.

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Re: Spider-Man Family Vol. 2 7

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:45 am

If I understand correctly, then, this story should be placed somewhere between FF 524 and ASM 525. I'm putting it in the empty slots on Dec. 9 and 10 of Year 22 of the Calendar. If anyone knows why it shouldn't go there, please let me know. Thanks.
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Re: Spider-Man Family Vol. 2 7

Post by newtron » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:44 pm

cool. thanks everyone.
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