Eternals v4 #1

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Eternals v4 #1

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:49 pm

Eternals v4 #1
August, 2008

Appearances:
Makkari, Dreaming Celestial(Tiamut the Communicator), Ikaris, Thena, Joey, his dog, Sersi, Druig, Colonel Stoyanovich, Legba, unit 2934.78

In FlashBack/Dream?
Daredevil, Jean Grey, Beast, Thanos, Wolverine, Thunderstrike, Hulk, Iron Man, Drax, Vision, Namor, Firelord, Cyclops, Spider-Man, Dr. Doom, Adam Warlock, Silver Surfer, Magneto, Black Guy?, Goth Chick?, Bruce Banner, Rick Jones, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, baby Cage(Danielle? I don’t remember at the moment)

In Dream Communication:
Phastos, Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Punisher, Iron Fist

Synopsis:
Pg1pn1
Makkari communicates with the Dreaming Celestial. As the Celestial explains it’s purpose we see scenes from the past:
Pg1pn2-FB?
Daredevil swings away from an alley, he’s just saved a woman from muggers.
Pg1pn3-FB?
Jean Grey & the Beast survey the wreckage from the just destroyed Genosha, they’re wearing the Morrison leather uniforms.
Pg2pn1-FB?
A group of heroes attack Thanos during the Infinity Gauntlet crossover.
Pg2pn2-FB?
A young Magneto plays with his fledgling magnetic powers in a concentration camp.
Pg2pn3-FB?
I have no idea. Two people kiss. One is a black guy with glasses and an afro, the other is a goth chick with a pink headband in her black hair, she has a staff with a circle on the end of it.
Pg3pn1-FB?
Doc Bruce Banner is belted with gamma rays when his gamma bomb explodes,(ain't he unglamorous?) Rick Jones cowers in a ditch.
Pg3pn2-FB?
Luke Cage and Jessica Jones spend time with their new born baby.
Pg3pn3(of 3)-pg4pn4(of 4)
Ikaris, Thena, & Joey drive around Louisiana while Ikaris & Thena discuss why Druig is awakening more Eternals faster than they are. Thena refuses to use his brainwashing methods, Ikaris says they have to do something, he just doesn’t know what.
Pg5-pg24
The Dreaming Celestial tells Makkari that he’s found another Eternal, Phastos. In the communication dream, Mr & Mrs. Fantastic, the Punisher, & Iron Fist all notice Makkari. He’s then awoken by Sersi, who asks him to stop talking with the Dreaming Celestial. He explains that he can’t, it will only talk to him. Meanwhile in the People’s republic of Vorzheika, a parade is held for Druig. While he watches, Druig chats with Colonel Stoyanovich, who’s found another Eternal: Legba. Meanwhile, Legba gives a sermon in Louisiana. Druig arrives and awakens him, Ikaris and Thena show up just afterwards. After a skirmish, Druig distracts them by putting Joey in danger. By the time Ikaris & Thena save him, Druig and Legba are gone.

References:
All in one day. Sunny in California, green leaves on trees in Louisiana, raining for a bit in Louisiana, over by dusk.

This picks up some time after the Gaiman miniseries, how much time isn’t specified. The Eternals are still trying to track down the other Eternals that still have corrupted memories from Sprite’s shenanigans. Zuras’ side is trying to revive found Eternals through conversation, Druig’s side is reviving found Eternals through force. Even though Ajak is the communicator, the Dreaming Celestial will only communicate with Makkari. He doesn’t quite understand what it’s saying, and Ajak is jealous. That’s the setup.

Unit 2934.78 is a program downloaded into Joey, spying on the Eternals. It eventually self-destructs, but I can’t remember if it’s sentient or just a spy program. I listed it in the appearances above just in case.

Questions:
The Dreaming Celestial communicates with Makkari through dreams. It’s imparting information, but the dreams jump from reality to possibilities within scenes. What the Celestial is saying is fine, but what’s presented is questionable. How much stock can we put into any FlashBacks presented in this fashion?(I’m talking about the Infinity Gauntlet scene, young Magneto, etc.) Normally we discount dreams completely, but this is it’s mode of communication.

Also, do the scenes ‘in the present’ dream sequence count? I mean, the Punisher says “Please, Makkari, I’m scared! Wake up!”. It’s presented in a dream from the Dreaming Celestial, that’s how it communicates to him, but are these actual appearances?

Who’s the Black Guy and the Goth Chick?

I’ll eventually analyze issues 2-6, but I’d like to figure out the answers to my questions first. Thoughts?
-Daron Jensen

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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by JephYork » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:09 pm

Who’s the Black Guy and the Goth Chick?
Alex Wilder and Nico Minoru from "Runaways".
the dreams jump from reality to possibilities within scenes.
They do? I only read it once, but I was under the impression all those appearances were real.
baby Cage(Danielle? I don’t remember at the moment)
Yes, she's Danielle Cage.

-Jeph!

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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:25 pm

jephyork wrote:
Col_Fury wrote:Who’s the Black Guy and the Goth Chick?
Alex Wilder and Nico Minoru from "Runaways".
Of course it's from the one book I don't read. :roll: Thanks, Jeph! :)
jephyork wrote:
Col_Fury wrote:the dreams jump from reality to possibilities within scenes.
They do? I only read it once, but I was under the impression all those appearances were real.
Ah... dang it. I read the issue three times today and I thought the Horde was swarming the Earth. Looking at it now the Horde is just flying through space.(that's what I get for overthinking things) So there it is, the FlashBacks are real!
jephyork wrote:
Col_Fury wrote:baby Cage(Danielle? I don’t remember at the moment)
Yes, she's Danielle Cage.
Thought so. Thanks again!

...but what about the Current Day dreams? Where the Punisher says “Please, Makkari, I’m scared! Wake up!”? Real appearance or just a dream? I'm leaning towards real appearance colored by dream logic, if that makes any sense...
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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by JephYork » Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:03 am

The way I interpreted it, the Dreaming Celestial was "broadcasting", causing real characters to spout words that were not their own.

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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:51 am

Sweet.
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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:47 am

For the Current Day cameos, Mr. Fantastic & the Invisible Woman are relaxing on the beach. The Punisher is preparing to shoot a criminal. Iron Fist is hanging off the side of a building in New York, in costume.

Some placement suggestions for the FlashBacks:

BEAST/HENRY "HANK" P. MCCOY
...
X 115
*E4 1-FB
X 116
...

CAGE, DANIELLE
...
PULSE 13 (1-18)
*E4 1-FB
PULSE 13 (19-22)
...

CAGE, LUKE/CARL LUCAS
...
PULSE 13 (1-18)
*E4 1-FB
PULSE 13 (19-22)
...

CYCLOPS II/SCOTT SUMMERS
...
IG 3
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

DAREDEVIL/MATT MICHAEL MURDOCK
...
DD 379
*E4 1-FB
DD2 1
...
(Honestly, this could go anywhere. I just picked a random spot)

DOCTOR DOOM/VICTOR VON DOOM
...
IG 3
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

DRAX/ARTHUR DOUGLAS
...
IG 3
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

FIRELORD/PYREUS KRIL [XANDAREAN]
...
IG 3~SS3 54
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

HULK/DR. ROBERT BRUCE BANNER

H 1
*E4 1 (3:1)-FB
H 1

IG 3
*E4 1 (2:1)-FB
IG 4
...
(sorry, I can't find my reprint of Hulk #1 at the moment, so I'm not sure as to the page/panel ranges)

IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK
...
IG 3~SS3 54
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

JONES, JESSICA (nee Cambell)
...
PULSE 13 (1-18)
*E4 1-FB
PULSE 13 (19-22)
...

JONES, RICHARD MILHOUSE "RICK"

H 1
*E4 1-FB
H 1

(sorry, I can't find my reprint of Hulk #1 at the moment, so I'm not sure as to the page/panel ranges)

MAGNETO/MAX EISENHARDT/”MAGNUS”/” ERIC LENSHERR”
NM 49-FB
UX 344-FB
*E4 1-FB
XU 2-FB (11:4 - 12:2)


PHOENIX IV/JEAN GREY SUMMERS
...
X 115
*E4 1-FB
X 116
...

SILVER SURFER/NORRIN RADD
...
IG 3
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER
...
IG 3~SS3 54
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

SUB-MARINER/NAMOR MACKENZIE
...
IG 3~SS3 52
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

THANOS
...
IG 3
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

THUNDERSTRIKE/ERIC KEVIN MASTERSON
...
IG 3~SS3 54
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

VISION II
...
IG 3~SS3 54
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

WARLOCK II/ADAM WARLOCK
...
IG 3~SS3 54
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

WOLVERINE/"LOGAN"/JAMES HOWLETT
...
IG 3~SS3 54
*E4 1-FB
IG 4
...

And I have no idea for these two:

MINORU, NICO
...
*E4 1-FB
...

WILDER, ALEX
...
*E4 1-FB
...

Up eventually: Eternals v4 #2-6!
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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by JephYork » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:49 am

Aren't a lot of these scenes we've already seen before?

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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:59 am

Infinity Gauntlet 3 ends with the heroes preparing to attack Thanos, Infinity Gauntlet 4 opens with them already attacking. E4 1-FB shows them actually charging Thanos, so I took it to be a new scene.

Everything else is new except the Gamma Bomb explosion, but it seemed odd to me for every other FlashBack in this issue to make it into the listings but to leave that one out. *shrug*

Any placement ideas for the Runaways characters?
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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by JD » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:30 am

I'll have to check the E4 1 panel and my Runaways trades, but the flashback with Alex and Nico kissing may just be repeating the scene in RUN 5 (where they kiss for the first time just before storming the Haynes' mansion).

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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by JephYork » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:36 am

Everything else is new
The scene from New X-Men #116 isn't new.

And I think it's a little disingenuous to say "DD saves a woman from muggers" HAS to be new; have you checked all his appearances to make sure he's never saved a woman from muggers before?

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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by JD » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:18 pm

Now having my trades on hand to compare... The scene in RUN 5 doesn't fit (Nico doesn't have access to her staff there).

On the other hand, I have a match for RUN 15 10p1, even down to the bright light behind them and Alex's position. The only difference is that Nico doesn't have her staff in that panel either : she has it the panel just before (RUN 15 9p4), and she pick it up off the ground in the next page, so my guess is she drops it as Alex kisses her.

So :
ALEX WILDER
SISTER GRIMM/NICO MINORU
...
RUN 15 (page 9 panel 4) - Alex preparing to kissing Nico, who is holding her staff
E4 1-FB (page 2 panel 3) - Alex and Nico kiss - Nico still holds her staff
RUN 15 (page 10 panel 1) - Alex and Nico kiss, Nico has dropped her staff
...

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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by DonCampbell » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:36 pm

Col_Fury wrote:This picks up some time after the Gaiman miniseries, how much time isn’t specified. The Eternals are still trying to track down the other Eternals that still have corrupted memories from Sprite’s shenanigans. Zuras’ side is trying to revive found Eternals through conversation, Druig’s side is reviving found Eternals through force.
On page 5, Thena reminds Ikaris that "Six months ago, you were calling Druig's methods an abomination." So, it's been at least that long since the end of the miniseries.

Col_Fury wrote:Unit 2934.78 is a program downloaded into Joey, spying on the Eternals. It eventually self-destructs, but I can’t remember if it’s sentient or just a spy program.
Skipping ahead a bit, issue #5 reveals that the Horde scout is a "proto-sentient spore" that infects a host organism. Also, Unit 2934.78 doesn't self-destruct in issue #1. It was going to do so when it appeared that its host was about to die but it aborted its self-atomization when it realized that Joey was about to be rescued from drowning by Ikaris. Since issue #1, it's been the thoughts/communications of that Unit which have been presented as red words within red rectangles in panels where Joey was present.

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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:23 am

jephyork wrote:The scene from New X-Men #116 isn't new.
E4 1-FB shows the Beast crouching and looking at (just)a skull, X 116 opens with the Beast standing, looking at a skull with an attached spine and arm, and then Jean returns and they start up a conversation, which is why I suggested it go before that issue starts. I don't know how important this new information is, but it is new.
jephyork wrote:And I think it's a little disingenuous to say "DD saves a woman from muggers" HAS to be new; have you checked all his appearances to make sure he's never saved a woman from muggers before?
Oh, I'm sure he's saved plenty of women from muggers. It does seem odd though, that all of these FlashBacks are from specific issues except this one.(well, except Magneto...) Can anyone recall an issue where Daredevil rescues a black haired woman wearing a green top & black pants from being attacked by four thugs?
JD wrote:I have a match for RUN 15 10p1, even down to the bright light behind them and Alex's position. The only difference is that Nico doesn't have her staff in that panel either : she has it the panel just before (RUN 15 9p4), and she pick it up off the ground in the next page, so my guess is she drops it as Alex kisses her.
Thanks JD!
DonCampbell wrote:Thena reminds Ikaris that "Six months ago, you were calling Druig's methods an abomination." So, it's been at least that long since the end of the miniseries.
Good catch!
DonCampbell wrote:Skipping ahead a bit, issue #5 reveals that the Horde scout is a "proto-sentient spore" that infects a host organism. Also, Unit 2934.78 doesn't self-destruct in issue #1. It was going to do so when it appeared that its host was about to die but it aborted its self-atomization when it realized that Joey was about to be rescued from drowning by Ikaris.
Right, but it eventually does in issue 5, killing Joey in the process.
DonCampbell wrote:Since issue #1, it's been the thoughts/communications of that Unit which have been presented as red words within red rectangles in panels where Joey was present.
Exactly.

So it's "proto-sentient", eh? I don't know if we would bother listing that...

Thanks guys!
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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by JephYork » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:41 am

E4 1-FB shows the Beast crouching and looking at (just)a skull, X 116 opens with the Beast standing, looking at a skull with an attached spine and arm, and then Jean returns and they start up a conversation, which is why I suggested it go before that issue starts. I don't know how important this new information is, but it is new.
See, I'd just call that a different artist's interpretation of an existing scene. These aren't single frames of a real, filmed event, that can be shuffled into their original linear order ... these are different creators revisiting the same basic fictional event. The same moment in time can look different if a different artist draws it. I've been leaning away from calling things like this (and the Runaways shot) "new information", as it really isn't. No new INFO is being presented -- just a different take on an existing event (Beast looks at some bones; Alex and Nico kiss).

If there was some new dialogue, or a significantly different action that wasn't in the original books -- Beast throws the bones in frustration; Nico slaps Alex -- that's new. But this ... I don't know, I sort of feel like it adds nothing of value.

Where do we draw the line? "In the original comic, Cap was punching Hitler with his left fist. In this flashback he's punching him with his right! NEW INFO!" Er ... nah.

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Re: Eternals v4 #1

Post by JD » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:50 am

Yeah, I doubt the Runaways panel really counts as new information : staff excepted, it's just a copy of RUN 15 10p1, so I'd say it's mostly artistic license (the staff is shown to make the characters easier to identify). I just indicated a placement for the case we really have to include it (and don't dismiss it as a retelling).

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