FB-FB in ASM 605

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FB-FB in ASM 605

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:56 pm

In ASM 605, there is a two-part flashback within a flashback in which a beat up Spidey returns to M.J. from a mission after "four days" of non-communication. M.J. gets pissed and they have an argument about Peter's responsibilities as Spider-Man. Is this a previously published scene or is this new material? If the latter, where should it go? What might that four-day mission be?
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Re: FB-FB in ASM 605

Post by Nathan P. Mahney » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:48 pm

The context of the scene seemed to me to be placing it as the explanation of what happened when MJ left Peter. If that's the case (and my Spider-Man knowledge is pretty patchy, I'll admit) it probably happens fairly recently, like just before Brand New Day.

Although, is that how Spidey's continuity works now? Everything up to One More Day happened pretty much as is, except that Pete and MJ never got married? If that's the case, then the above is where I'd place the flashback.
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Re: FB-FB in ASM 605

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:53 pm

I haven't read ASM 605 yet, but:
Nathan P. Mahney wrote:Although, is that how Spidey's continuity works now? Everything up to One More Day happened pretty much as is, except that Pete and MJ never got married?
Yes. The only thing that Mephisto changed was the last five pages of ASM Annual #21, resulting in Aunt May not being dead. That's it.
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Re: FB-FB in ASM 605

Post by Somebody » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:15 pm

Col_Fury wrote:Yes. The only thing that Mephisto changed was the last five pages of ASM Annual #21, resulting in Aunt May not being dead. That's it.
Is that quite what you meant? :-P

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Re: FB-FB in ASM 605

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:46 pm

Nathan P. Mahney wrote:The context of the scene seemed to me to be placing it as the explanation of what happened when MJ left Peter.
I've now had a chance to read ASM 605, and I agree with Nathan. This where I have it at the moment:

SPIDER-MAN
...
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #545 (1-22)
CABLE & DEADPOOL #50 (Deadpool references Mephisto)
MS. MARVEL ANNUAL #1 (classic costume)
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #605-FB (Peter's identity is secret again, has been secret)
MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS v2 #1/3 (classic costume, Peter in either hotel or at Betty's place)
NEW AVENGERS #38 (classic costume)
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN FAMILY #4 (Harry's alive!, Peter & May staying with Betty)
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: FEAR ITSELF #1 (4-10)-FB (on vacation with May in Florida, ?while Harry is rebuilding May's house?)
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #581-FB (Harry has rebuilt May's house)
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #545 (23-31) (welcome back party for Harry, Peter living at May's house)
...
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Re: FB-FB in ASM 605

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:28 am

Oh, so ASM 605-FB-FB (not just FB) is supposed to show the cause of Peter and M.J.'s breakup following the deal with Mephisto? If so, why not place this immediately after ASM 545 (1-22) as part of Mephisto's deal? Mephisto nullifies the marriage, then immediately sets up a situation in which Peter and M.J. part. After all, it wouldn't be painful enough for Parker if he and M.J. were in a great single relationship, would it? This may be the fruition of the deal M.J. made with Mephisto to keep Spidey's ID secret from the rest of the world -- the couple would have to split up. (M.J. is giving Peter a chance of happiness in his new life.) The reference to M.J. not having seen Spidey for "four days" in this flashback is possibly a fabrication of the scenario. Does this work?

Fury, I'm glad you caught that appearance in M/CP2 1/3. Somehow, I forgot to include that in my redraft Calendar. I assume the reference to A4 38 is to pages 19-22 only, which I have as Spidey's first appearance after ASM 545 (1-22) (and now, perhaps after ASM 605-FB-FB) to minimize the gap between pages 18 and 19 of A4 38. I also have the order of ASMF 4 and ASM:FI 1-FB (4-10) flip-flopped and wonder if there's a reason for the sequence as you have it. Publication order?

Fury, I'm curious to know where AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: SWING SHIFT #1 ended up in your Spidey chronology, as well as GIANT-SIZE ASTONISHING X-MEN #1 and X-MEN & SPIDER-MAN #4.
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Re: FB-FB in ASM 605

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:54 pm

Oops! You're right, it's a flashback within a flashback.
Paul Bourcier wrote:Oh, so ASM 605-FB-FB (not just FB) is supposed to show the cause of Peter and M.J.'s breakup following the deal with Mephisto? If so, why not place this immediately after ASM 545 (1-22) as part of Mephisto's deal? Mephisto nullifies the marriage, then immediately sets up a situation in which Peter and M.J. part. After all, it wouldn't be painful enough for Parker if he and M.J. were in a great single relationship, would it? This may be the fruition of the deal M.J. made with Mephisto to keep Spidey's ID secret from the rest of the world -- the couple would have to split up. (M.J. is giving Peter a chance of happiness in his new life.) The reference to M.J. not having seen Spidey for "four days" in this flashback is possibly a fabrication of the scenario. Does this work?
Well, ASM 590-591 reveals that PETER did something to make his identity secret again. He mentions it's a post-hypnotic something-or-other, and Mr. Fantastic figures out what he's talking about.

So no, I don't think Mephisto had anything to do with that. Peter doesn't remember he was married, but he does remember that he revealed his identity as Spider-Man, and he knows people can't remember who Spider-Man is.

I have a slot right after ASM 545 (1-22) for Peter to do this, and then he appears in Cable & Deadpool #50 & Ms. Marvel Annual #1 to 'open up time(maybe enough for a four day adventure)' to give Mary Jane time to get irritated that "Peter has a secret identity but she does too and hers sucks, and that because of this she has no superhero wives to talk to about it" (paraphrased from ASM 605-FB-FB).
Paul Bourcier wrote:Fury, I'm glad you caught that appearance in M/CP2 1/3. Somehow, I forgot to include that in my redraft Calendar. I assume the reference to A4 38 is to pages 19-22 only, which I have as Spidey's first appearance after ASM 545 (1-22) (and now, perhaps after ASM 605-FB-FB) to minimize the gap between pages 18 and 19 of A4 38. I also have the order of ASMF 4 and ASM:FI 1-FB (4-10) flip-flopped and wonder if there's a reason for the sequence as you have it. Publication order?
Yup, that's A4 38 (19-22), Spider-Man doesn't appear in (1-18). The Jarvis Skrull does appear in A4 38 (1-18), and I have that before ASM 544. And now that you mention it, the apartment Spider-Man returns to in M/CP2 #1/3 COULD BE his new Avengers place provided by Iron Fist...

I suppose ASM:FI 1 (4-10)-FB could go before ASM: Family #4, but I just figured Peter & May were taking the time while Harry was rebuilding May's house to visit friends in Florida.(they were probably starting to feel bad about staying at Betty's)
Paul Bourcier wrote:Fury, I'm curious to know where AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: SWING SHIFT #1 ended up in your Spidey chronology, as well as GIANT-SIZE ASTONISHING X-MEN #1 and X-MEN & SPIDER-MAN #4.
Here you go:

SPIDER-MAN
...
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #545 (1-22)
CABLE & DEADPOOL #50
MS. MARVEL ANNUAL #1
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #605-FB-FB
NEW AVENGERS #38
MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS v2 #1/3
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN FAMILY #4
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: FEAR ITSELF #1 (4-10)-FB
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #581-FB
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #545 (23-31)
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: SWING SHIFT #1
X-MEN/SPIDER-MAN #4
GIANT-SIZE ASTONISHING X-MEN #1
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #546-FB
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #546
...
(and then I have FF 556 tentatively after ASM 558, but it's not nailed down yet)
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Re: FB-FB in ASM 605

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:42 pm

Thanks, Fury. I think the reason I placed ASM:FI 1-FB before ASMF 4 was purely based on calendar placement. The story in ASM:FI 1-FB takes place in "July," and I was running out of month. :wink:

I was under the impression that ASM:SS 1 occurred before ASM 545 (23-31), but that doesn't have to be the case. ASM:SS 1 is Spidey's only "public appearance" in the 100 days prior to ASM 546 (13-25). In ASM:SS 1, Spidey hasn't done anything public "for three whole weeks." So I placed ASM:SS 1 three weeks into that 100-day period, or roughly 80 days before ASM 546 (13-25). If ASM 525 (23-31) is before ASM:SS 1 and since it must occur after ASM 581-FB (because May's house is rebuilt in that last part of ASM 525), that house probably got rebuilt pretty quickly after One More Day. Then again, Osborn money can accomplish a lot.

BTW, those Spidey appearances you have in GSASTONX 1 and XM&SM 4 don't necessarily constitute public appearances and should be okay where they are, before the end of that 100-day period.
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