Official Index to the Marvel Universe #1 Errata / Spider-Man

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: Official Index to the Marvel Universe #1 Errata / Spider-Man

Post by Kevin W. » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:21 pm

So instead of moving the majority of the flashback to right around ASM #4 (and leaving the bit with Jessica and the Scorpion after ASM #20)...we could move the entire Alias #23 fb to right after ASM #20?
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Re: Official Index to the Marvel Universe #1 Errata / Spider-Man

Post by Chris McCarver » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:29 pm

I think it needs to go even further, to butt up against ASM 29, but I'm not sure which goes first. Both the Scorpion and J. Jonah Jameson's chronologies place the flashback there; though Gargan's has ALIAS 23 after ASM 29, and Jameson's has the two issues concurrent but with the order reversed. In any case, since Galactus' arrival in FF 50 was what woke Jessica and that was after Reed and Sue's wedding in FF@ 3 (where Spidey was present), it'd have to at the earliest be after FF@ 3, and since ASM 29's Spidey's next appearance after FF@ 3...?
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Re: Official Index to the Marvel Universe #1 Errata / Spider-Man

Post by Kevin W. » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:45 pm

Chris McCarver wrote:I think it needs to go even further, to butt up against ASM 29, but I'm not sure which goes first. Both the Scorpion and J. Jonah Jameson's chronologies place the flashback there; though Gargan's has ALIAS 23 after ASM 29, and Jameson's has the two issues concurrent but with the order reversed. In any case, since Galactus' arrival in FF 50 was what woke Jessica and that was after Reed and Sue's wedding in FF@ 3 (where Spidey was present), it'd have to at the earliest be after FF@ 3, and since ASM 29's Spidey's next appearance after FF@ 3...?
See earlier in this thread, Chris: The "Galactus" appearance in Alias isn't Galactus...Marvel basically wrote that off as "not occuring during FF #50"...
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Re: Official Index to the Marvel Universe #1 Errata / Spider-Man

Post by Chris McCarver » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:55 pm

Kevin W. wrote:
Chris McCarver wrote:I think it needs to go even further, to butt up against ASM 29, but I'm not sure which goes first. Both the Scorpion and J. Jonah Jameson's chronologies place the flashback there; though Gargan's has ALIAS 23 after ASM 29, and Jameson's has the two issues concurrent but with the order reversed. In any case, since Galactus' arrival in FF 50 was what woke Jessica and that was after Reed and Sue's wedding in FF@ 3 (where Spidey was present), it'd have to at the earliest be after FF@ 3, and since ASM 29's Spidey's next appearance after FF@ 3...?
See earlier in this thread, Chris: The "Galactus" appearance in Alias isn't Galactus...Marvel basically wrote that off as "not occuring during FF #50"...
Ah, right... the Excedrin headache I'd gotten trying to wrap my head around that's coming back. :-P

Doesn't help that Jess' OHOTMU entry lists the Galactus appearance as legit, but that was printed in '04, before this underwent any sort of major scrutiny...

Even so, that still places the ALIAS 23 flashback in different spots in ASM continuity. Here's where the listings have everyone who appeared in ALIAS 23 that has verified listings in the books printed during the time period:

JAMESON, J. JONAH
[...]
ASM 28
MARVELS 3 (9)
MARVELS 3 (19)
FF 50-BTS
ALIAS 23
ASM 29
[...]

SCORPION
[...]
ASM 29
ALIAS 23
CA 122
[...]

SPIDER-MAN
[...]
ASM 27
ALIAS 23
ASM 28 (1 - 16)
[...]

THOMPSON, EUGENE "FLASH"
[...]
ASM 26
ALIAS 23
ASM 28 (1 - 16)
[...]
Last edited by Chris McCarver on Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official Index to the Marvel Universe #1 Errata / Spider-Man

Post by Kevin W. » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:00 pm

Chris McCarver wrote: Ah, right... the Excedrin headache I'd gotten trying to wrap my head around that's coming back. :-P

Doesn't help that Jess' OHOTMU entry lists the Galactus appearance as legit, but that was printed in '04, before this underwent any sort of major scrutiny...
Yeah, I know...

Upon thinking about this further (and in the spirit of trying to minimize the amount of changes to chronology):

We could just keep things were they were at in the Index currently. Currently the Index has for ASM #26: Flash Thompson is chr next in Alias #23, '03 fb. And in ASM #27: Spider-Man is next in Alias #23, '03 fb after Mv #3, '94. Also, for ASM #29: Scorpion is chr next in Alias #23, '03 fb. (ASM #29 is the Scorpion's 2nd published appearance).

Flash and Spider-Man graduate in ASM #28, so having the majority of Alias #23 occur between ASM #27 and 28 is fine, since they're still in High School...and then a short while later (after graduation) Jessica encounters the Scorpion after ASM #29.

So Jessica gets her powers, awakens from the coma, sees Spidey vs. Sandman in ASM #4, later on discovers her powers after chewing out Peter (Alias #23 fb), then Peter, Flash, and Jessica graduate, (ASM #28) then a short while later Jessica defeats the Scorpion (the last part of Alias #23 fb).

Unless someone can point out why it really needs moved from that...

Later,

Kevin
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Re: Official Index to the Marvel Universe #1 Errata / Spider-Man

Post by Chris McCarver » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:16 pm

Kevin W. wrote:
Chris McCarver wrote: Ah, right... the Excedrin headache I'd gotten trying to wrap my head around that's coming back. :-P

Doesn't help that Jess' OHOTMU entry lists the Galactus appearance as legit, but that was printed in '04, before this underwent any sort of major scrutiny...
Yeah, I know...

Upon thinking about this further (and in the spirit of trying to minimize the amount of changes to chronology):

We could just keep things were they were at in the Index currently. Currently the Index has for ASM #26: Flash Thompson is chr next in Alias #23, '03 fb. And in ASM #27: Spider-Man is next in Alias #23, '03 fb after Mv #3, '94. Also, for ASM #29: Scorpion is chr next in Alias #23, '03 fb. (ASM #29 is the Scorpion's 2nd published appearance).

Flash and Spider-Man graduate in ASM #28, so having the majority of Alias #23 occur between ASM #27 and 28 is fine, since they're still in High School...and then a short while later (after graduation) Jessica encounters the Scorpion after ASM #29.

So Jessica gets her powers, awakens from the coma, sees Spidey vs. Sandman in ASM #4, later on discovers her powers after chewing out Peter (Alias #23 fb), then Peter, Flash, and Jessica graduate, (ASM #28) then a short while later Jessica defeats the Scorpion (the last part of Alias #23 fb).

Unless someone can point out why it really needs moved from that...

Later,

Kevin
That seems to be the way to go that would minimize reworking, if we're to infer that Jessica meant in ASM 601/2 that she'd had but not been aware of her powers until facing the Scorpion around ASM 29. No matter which way we go, ALIAS 23 looks like it'd have to be broken up into different spots of ASM continuity rather than all being bookended between concurrent issues.
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Re: Official Index to the Marvel Universe #1 Errata / Spider-Man

Post by Chris McCarver » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:44 pm

Apologies for the double-post, guys, but I had a chance to re-read the Alias issues in question, and I think I may have found a way to make everything fit *and* legitimize the appearance of Galactus and the Surfer.

After looking up-thread (and please, hip me to anything I've overlooked), I'm presuming the sticking point with placing Alias #23 post-FF #50 is the fact that Peter Parker and Flash Thompson are present at Midtown High when Jess returns to school after awakening from her coma, which in the overall Marvel timeline can't be possible since Pete and Flash have graduated by the time Galactus arrived on Earth.

Upon re-reading the issues, I had a lightbulb go off: this could conceivably take place post-Peter's graduation, because nothing in the story intrinsically says or shows that Peter and Flash are there attending classes. Flash could have just been there enjoying one last ego-stroke from his high-school harem before starting classes at ESU. Pete could have been there getting his report card or copies of his transcripts or double-checking his locker to make sure he didn't leave anything linking him to his Spider-Man identity. As far as the "Flash Thompson for Class President" poster on the wall, maybe something left over from the previous school year that no one bothered to take down?

In the words of Joel Robinson, "whaddaya think, sirs?"
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Re: Official Index to the Marvel Universe #1 Errata / Spider-Man

Post by Kevin W. » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:35 pm

Chris McCarver wrote:Apologies for the double-post, guys, but I had a chance to re-read the Alias issues in question, and I think I may have found a way to make everything fit *and* legitimize the appearance of Galactus and the Surfer.

After looking up-thread (and please, hip me to anything I've overlooked), I'm presuming the sticking point with placing Alias #23 post-FF #50 is the fact that Peter Parker and Flash Thompson are present at Midtown High when Jess returns to school after awakening from her coma, which in the overall Marvel timeline can't be possible since Pete and Flash have graduated by the time Galactus arrived on Earth.

Upon re-reading the issues, I had a lightbulb go off: this could conceivably take place post-Peter's graduation, because nothing in the story intrinsically says or shows that Peter and Flash are there attending classes. Flash could have just been there enjoying one last ego-stroke from his high-school harem before starting classes at ESU. Pete could have been there getting his report card or copies of his transcripts or double-checking his locker to make sure he didn't leave anything linking him to his Spider-Man identity. As far as the "Flash Thompson for Class President" poster on the wall, maybe something left over from the previous school year that no one bothered to take down?

In the words of Joel Robinson, "whaddaya think, sirs?"
Well, that MIGHT work if we were in a "desperate times call for desperate measures" sort of predicament, but we have a pretty strong ruling by Marvel that the Galactus appearance in Alias is an error...as such, I'm more than happy to squint my eyes and say "That's not THE Galactus incident from FF #50" rather than squint my eyes and say "Flash and Peter are just visiting high school".

Chris, since you just read the Alias issues in question, help me out please:
JAMESON, J. JONAH
[...]
ASM 28
MARVELS 3 (9)
MARVELS 3 (19)
FF 50-BTS
ALIAS 23
ASM 29
[...]
What's Jameson doing in that issue of Alias? How's it related to the main plot (if at all)?

Thanks,

Kevin
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Re: Official Index to the Marvel Universe #1 Errata / Spider-Man

Post by Chris McCarver » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:23 pm

Kevin W. wrote:
Chris McCarver wrote:Apologies for the double-post, guys, but I had a chance to re-read the Alias issues in question, and I think I may have found a way to make everything fit *and* legitimize the appearance of Galactus and the Surfer.

After looking up-thread (and please, hip me to anything I've overlooked), I'm presuming the sticking point with placing Alias #23 post-FF #50 is the fact that Peter Parker and Flash Thompson are present at Midtown High when Jess returns to school after awakening from her coma, which in the overall Marvel timeline can't be possible since Pete and Flash have graduated by the time Galactus arrived on Earth.

Upon re-reading the issues, I had a lightbulb go off: this could conceivably take place post-Peter's graduation, because nothing in the story intrinsically says or shows that Peter and Flash are there attending classes. Flash could have just been there enjoying one last ego-stroke from his high-school harem before starting classes at ESU. Pete could have been there getting his report card or copies of his transcripts or double-checking his locker to make sure he didn't leave anything linking him to his Spider-Man identity. As far as the "Flash Thompson for Class President" poster on the wall, maybe something left over from the previous school year that no one bothered to take down?

In the words of Joel Robinson, "whaddaya think, sirs?"
Well, that MIGHT work if we were in a "desperate times call for desperate measures" sort of predicament, but we have a pretty strong ruling by Marvel that the Galactus appearance in Alias is an error...as such, I'm more than happy to squint my eyes and say "That's not THE Galactus incident from FF #50" rather than squint my eyes and say "Flash and Peter are just visiting high school".
Sorry to beat the dead horse, I'm just finding it more of a stretch of the imagination to say Galactus and the Surfer weren't really there if Pete and Flash's appearance at the school is all that's refuting the event's place in the timeline. Someone on the Jinxworld forums posited that maybe Jess was experiencing a precognitive vision, so that's one possibility that could keep it in.
Chris, since you just read the Alias issues in question, help me out please:
JAMESON, J. JONAH
[...]
ASM 28
MARVELS 3 (9)
MARVELS 3 (19)
FF 50-BTS
ALIAS 23
ASM 29
[...]
What's Jameson doing in that issue of Alias? How's it related to the main plot (if at all)?

Thanks,

Kevin
Very minor: he shows up in one panel delivering an anti-Spidey rant on TV while Jessica and her adopted dad watch. No chronology hints in the dialogue.
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Re: Official Index to the Marvel Universe #1 Errata / Spider-Man

Post by Kevin W. » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:37 pm

Chris McCarver wrote: Sorry to beat the dead horse, I'm just finding it more of a stretch of the imagination to say Galactus and the Surfer weren't really there if Pete and Flash's appearance at the school is all that's refuting the event's place in the timeline. Someone on the Jinxworld forums posited that maybe Jess was experiencing a precognitive vision, so that's one possibility that could keep it in.
I thought about it being a "precog" vision as well, which would mean that it would indeed be Galactus, but that still means it's not occuring during FF #50 (and thus, could still be occurring while Peter and Flash are in High School).

I'm not sure if "Peter and Flash in High School" was the only hold up on placing it as occurring during FF #50, there may have been other evidence against placement there...but I'm not thinking of it right now.

Very minor: he shows up in one panel delivering an anti-Spidey rant on TV while Jessica and her adopted dad watch. No chronology hints in the dialogue.
Thanks!

Kevin
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