Some early Hulk flashbacks

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Nathan P. Mahney
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Some early Hulk flashbacks

Post by Nathan P. Mahney » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:55 am

While indexing Incredible Hulk #2, I found a few flashbacks that could be considered new material. So far as I know, they don't seem to be in the MCP.

The first is on page 3 panel 6 (of IH #2). It shows a doctor examining Bruce Banner, who is lying on a table. This happens after Bruce wakes up from the gamma bomb explosion, and before he first transforms into the Hulk. I've placed it between page 3 panel 5 and page 3 panel 6 of Incredible Hulk #1.

The second is on page 4 panel 2 and 3 (of IH #2). It shows a conversation between Bruce and Rick, in which Bruce tells Rick to leave but Rick vows to stick by Bruce to the end. I couldn't find a scene in IH #1 that this matches up to, so I have it as new material, placed in IH #1 between page 14 panel 8 and page 15 panel 1.

Thoughts?
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Re: Some early Hulk flashbacks

Post by Nathan P. Mahney » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:24 am

Okay, here are things in more detail.

First up, from IH #2 we have the two flashbacks listed above.

IH #2 p3pan6 FB: A doctor examines Banner. Happens between p4 and p5 of IH #1. Rick Jones, Bruce Banner, and the doctor appear.

IH #2 p4pan2 and pan3 FB: Rick voices his commitment to Banner. Happens between p14 and p15 of IH #1. Rick Jones and Bruce Banner appear.

There are four flashbacks in IH #3 that I don't see in the MCP.

The first, on p12pan2, shows Rick Jones driving his car onto the gamma bomb test site. He's already on the site playing his harmonica when we first see him in IH #1, so this is new material that goes just before IH #1. Rick's the only character that appears.

The second, on p14pan3, shows the Hulk smashing a Soviet plane, which I originally dismissed as a flashback to IH #1. Except that the Hulk doesn't do any such thing in that issue. This could refer to an untold adventure between IH #1 and IH #2. The Hulk appears, along with an unnamed Soviet pilot.

The third flashback shows Rick Jones sealing Banner in their underwater prison cave designed to hold the Hulk. If this is the first time this happened, then we have new material, as this was not shown on panel during IH #2. I place it between p24pan6 and pan7 of IH #2. Rick Jones and Bruce Banner appear.

The fourth flashback shows Rick and Bruce rushing to the aforementioned cave, and happens right before IH #3. I'm not sure what the policy is on this type of flashback (ones shown in the issue they take place directly in front of). Only Rick and Bruce appear here.

And from IH #4/1, it's another four flashbacks that could be new:

The first one, on p2pan2, shows Bruce Banner and Betty Ross meeting for the first time. This is new material that takes place not long before IH #1. It has appearances by Betty, Bruce, Thunderbolt Ross, and a guy in the background who looks very much like Igor Starsky, the Soviet spy who detonated the bomb to irradiate Bruce.

The second, on p2pan3, shows Bruce driving out onto the test site and spouting new dialogue. In IH #1, he was seen driving away, and on the next panel he's out of the car yelling at Rick Jones, so this is new material that happens between p3 and p4 of IH #1. Only Bruce Banner appears.

The third flashback, from p2pan6 to p3pan3, is a strange one. The events it shows are similar to those depicted in IH #2, in which the Hulk drags Betty to Banner's lab. But what happens here is very different to the events shown in IH #2, most notably because in the flashback Rick Jones is shown to be able to control the Hulk - this was not possible until IH #3. I'm inclined to chalk it up to faulty memories on Betty's part, unless someone else has other ideas.

The last flashback, from p2pan1 to p9pan8, is an extended flashback showing the events that lead up to Rick zapping Bruce with a gamma ray machine. It takes place right before this issue. Appearing are Bruce Banner, Betty Ross, Thunderbolt Ross and Rick Jones.

Proposed changes to the chronologies:

HULK (BRUCE BANNER):
...
H 4 FB - (Bruce and Betty meet for the first time)
{H 1}
H 4 FB - (Bruce drives onto the bomb test site)
H 1
H 2 FB - (Bruce is examined by a doctor after recovering from the blast)
H@ 17-FB - (I don't know what happens here, so if anyone could help with placement that would be great)
H 1
H 2 FB - (Bruce tells Rick to leave, but Rick says he will stick with him to the end)
H 1
H 3 FB - (The Hulk smashes a Soviet plane in a possible untold tale)
H 2
H 3 FB - (Rick Jones seals the Hulk in a cave for the first time)
H 2
AAF 16-FB
M/SH3 3/3
H 3 FB - (Bruce and Rick rush to make it to the cave before nightfall)
H 3
H 3/2
H 4 FB - (The events leading up to Rick zapping Hulk with the gamma ray machine)
H 4
H 4/2
...

JONES, RICK:
...
H2 268-FB
H3 FB - (Rick drives onto the gamma bomb test site)
{H 1}
H 2 FB - (Bruce is examined by a doctor after recovering from the blast)
H@ 17-BTS - (I don't know what happens here, so if anyone could help with placement that would be great)
H 1
H 2 FB - (Bruce tells Rick to leave, but Rick says he will stick with him to the end)
H 1
H 2
H 3 FB - (Rick Jones seals the Hulk in a cave for the first time)
H 2
AAF 16-FB
H 3 FB - (Bruce and Rick rush to make it to the cave before nightfall)
H 3
H 3/2
H 4 FB - (The events leading up to Rick zapping Hulk with the gamma ray machine)
H 4
H 4/2
...

ROSS, GEN. THADDEUS E. "THUNDERBOLT"
...
H3 15-FB
H 4 FB - (Bruce and Betty meet for the first time)
{H 1}
H 2
M/SH3 3/3
H 3
H 3/2
H 4 FB - (The events leading up to Rick zapping Hulk with the gamma ray machine)
H 4

BANNER, BETTY ROSS TALBOT
...
H 4 FB - (Bruce and Betty meet for the first time)
{H 1}
H 2
H 4 FB - (The events leading up to Rick zapping Hulk with the gamma ray machine)
H 4
...

So far as I can tell, there's no entry for Igor Starksy aka Igor Drenkov. Does he have another name I'm not aware of?
- Nathan P. Mahney -

michel
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Re: Some early Hulk flashbacks

Post by michel » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:10 am

Hi Nathan

I tried last year to deal with these early Hulk FB in this thread : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4580

I don't have the time right now, but maybe we could check our mutual works :)

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Re: Some early Hulk flashbacks

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:36 am

Guys, be sure to include page/panel ranges in your final notes. Thanks!
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Re: Some early Hulk flashbacks

Post by Nathan P. Mahney » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:16 pm

Hi Michel,

Your stuff looks a lot more extensive than mine. I'm going to check it out in the next few days, and I'll report back here with my results.
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Re: Some early Hulk flashbacks

Post by michel » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:22 pm

OK, let's check stuff :)
Nathan P. Mahney wrote:IH #2 p3pan6 FB: A doctor examines Banner. Happens between p4 and p5 of IH #1. Rick Jones, Bruce Banner, and the doctor appear.
michel wrote:H 2-FB (3:6) Bruce is no more screaming and the doctor examines him, in between H 1 (4:9) and (5:1) [Bruce, Rick]
We agree


Nathan P. Mahney wrote:IH #2 p4pan2 and pan3 FB: Rick voices his commitment to Banner. Happens between p14 and p15 of IH #1. Rick Jones and Bruce Banner appear.
michel wrote:H 2-FB (4:2-4:3) At sunset into Bruce's house, Bruce asks Rick to leave him, he doesn't want to hurt him, Rick refuses, in between H 1 (14:8) and (17:7) [Bruce, Rick]
That's OK, (17:7) is the next appearance of Bruce and Rick in H1 after (14:8)



Nathan P. Mahney wrote:The first, on p12pan2, shows Rick Jones driving his car onto the gamma bomb test site. He's already on the site playing his harmonica when we first see him in IH #1, so this is new material that goes just before IH #1. Rick's the only character that appears.
michel wrote:H 3-FB (12:4-12:5) = H 1 (3:6) with Rick talking and Bruce seen
I was not sure the text change could make this a genuine FB


Nathan P. Mahney wrote:The second, on p14pan3, shows the Hulk smashing a Soviet plane, which I originally dismissed as a flashback to IH #1. Except that the Hulk doesn't do any such thing in that issue. This could refer to an untold adventure between IH #1 and IH #2. The Hulk appears, along with an unnamed Soviet pilot.
michel wrote:H 3-FB (14:3) this panel is curious, the Hulk seems to be destroying a plane or a rocket with the emblem of the anvil and the hammer on it, but it doesn't fit anywhere, Hulk is under Gremlin's control when they fly in Russia, and then he reverts back to Banner and come back as Banner.
Big problem with this one, it's either a mistake or an untold story


Nathan P. Mahney wrote:The third flashback shows Rick Jones sealing Banner in their underwater prison cave designed to hold the Hulk. If this is the first time this happened, then we have new material, as this was not shown on panel during IH #2. I place it between p24pan6 and pan7 of IH #2. Rick Jones and Bruce Banner appear.
The fourth flashback shows Rick and Bruce rushing to the aforementioned cave, and happens right before IH #3. I'm not sure what the policy is on this type of flashback (ones shown in the issue they take place directly in front of). Only Rick and Bruce appear here.
michel wrote:H 3-FB (14:6) = H 3-FB (2:2-2:3) with different text or it's another time and
H 3-FB (2:1-2:6) few hours ago, Bruce lets Rick put him in the cell, in between H 2 and H 3 [Bruce, Rick]
You're right on this one, I overviewed H 2 (24:7)


Nathan P. Mahney wrote:The first one, on p2pan2, shows Bruce Banner and Betty Ross meeting for the first time. This is new material that takes place not long before IH #1. It has appearances by Betty, Bruce, Thunderbolt Ross, and a guy in the background who looks very much like Igor Starsky, the Soviet spy who detonated the bomb to irradiate Bruce.
michel wrote:H 4-FB-FB (2:2) Ross introduces Bruce and Betty, the day of the bomb-test. In 1962, Betty and Bruce are meant to have met this day, but this has been retconned in H2 312, they met when Bruce arrived at Desert Base, and W/H 3 says it's been years before the bomb test. So let's say this is a formal, protocolar introduction ? [Bruce, Betty, Ross]
I placed it there :
HULK/DR. ROBERT BRUCE BANNER
...
W/H3-FB (6-7) a few weeks before the bomb test, Po and her father disappear in their plane
*H 4-FB-FB (2:2) Ross introduces Bruce and Betty, the day of the bomb
*H3 12-FB (17:5-18:3) Bruce notices Ryker and talks to him
H3 15-FB (9:4-9:5) Bruce, Ross, Betty and Ryker in the bunker with more people around
...


Nathan P. Mahney wrote:The second, on p2pan3, shows Bruce driving out onto the test site and spouting new dialogue. In IH #1, he was seen driving away, and on the next panel he's out of the car yelling at Rick Jones, so this is new material that happens between p3 and p4 of IH #1. Only Bruce Banner appears.
michel wrote:H 4-FB-FB (2:3) Bruce is driving to get to Rick, he seems to be outside the base so it's after H@ 17-FB and before H 1 (4:1) [Bruce]
Agreed


You seem to have missed :
michel wrote:H 4-FB-FB (2:5) Before first changing into Hulk, Bruce asks Betty to stay out, in between H 2-FB (3:6) and H 1 (5) [Bruce, Rick, Betty]

Nathan P. Mahney wrote:The third flashback, from p2pan6 to p3pan3, is a strange one. The events it shows are similar to those depicted in IH #2, in which the Hulk drags Betty to Banner's lab. But what happens here is very different to the events shown in IH #2, most notably because in the flashback Rick Jones is shown to be able to control the Hulk - this was not possible until IH #3. I'm inclined to chalk it up to faulty memories on Betty's part, unless someone else has other ideas.
michel wrote:H 4-FB-FB (2:6) = H 2 (18:7)
H 4-FB-FB (2:7) = H 2 (21:3)
H 4-FB-FB (3:1-3:3) = H 2 (21:5-22:2)
I'm not sure if it's really control here, Rick's talk may be only calming the Hulk. But you're right, it's not seen in H 2 and H 4-FB-FB (3:3) is new material and happens in between H2 (22:2) and (22:3)


Nathan P. Mahney wrote:The last flashback, from p2pan1 to p9pan8, is an extended flashback showing the events that lead up to Rick zapping Bruce with a gamma ray machine. It takes place right before this issue. Appearing are Bruce Banner, Betty Ross, Thunderbolt Ross and Rick Jones.
michel wrote:H 4 (2-9) is a flashback in between H 4 (1) and (10)
Agreed


Your turn, Nathan ! :D

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