A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by Somebody » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:09 am

JephYork wrote:Also, we decided that New Avengers: Illuminati #3 occurs after the Beyonder came to Earth and took human form, right -- so after Secret Wars II #2?
You said after the mindwipe at the end of SW2 3. Fury had previously agreed with a suggestion that the Beyonder had time-travelled back from some point during SW2 to pre-SW2 1: "New Avengers: Illuminati #3: what?"
JephYork wrote:I've got issue #1 placed for Prof. X in the Index, but where did we place issues #2 and #4-5?
#5 we did a lot of arguing over (The "Bendis blows" thread in Archive 89; "Illuminati 5" in the only-just-archived Archive 91, and incidentally in the "New Avengers Annual #2 -- what the #$%^&!?" thread). Given that Silent War never did get a follow-up (and was established as fully pre-WWH by SI:Inhumans, which said the BB switch happened between Silent War & WWH) and Avengers Tower *was* reconstructed exactly as before, those turned out not to be concerns.

Looking at after Sub-Mariner v3, before Messiah Complex and Order v2 #6-7, probably after WWH.

#4 was discussed in "New Avengers: Illuminati #4", Archive #86. Between Thor v2 #41 and ASM v2 #41 for Dr Strange (after his short-lived reconciliation with Clea after Order v1); before CW:YA/R for Noh-Varr; Paul B placed Xavier there between MU: The End and X-Treme X #19-BTS. We didn't narrow down the others specifically.

#2 was discussed (briefly) in "Illuminati #2", Archive #81. It must go after X4 (the X-Men/F4 mini) & She-Hulk #12, and before ASTONX3 7.

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by JephYork » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:24 am

Thanks. Illuminati #2 and 5 don't matter for Index purposes, then, as Prof. X isn't a member of the X-Men in either one. I placed #3 between UX #196 and 200, and #4 right before XX #19 as Paul B. suggested.

Still gotta figure out what's going on with XMU #47 ... but other than that, it looks like the only outstanding story on my "quick, place this!" list is Rampaging Wolverine/4.

Can anyone give me their thoughts on this? Like I said in the thread starter, Wolvie is marooned on an island for "a week" (possibly a topical reference) after Sauron drops him there following a battle, until Nightcrawler comes and gets him in the Blackbird. Wolvie appears (to me) to be wearing his Morrison-era jacket, but Nightcrawler doesn't, and the X-Men didn't use Blackbirds during the Morrison era.

Maybe we should be looking at Sauron's chronology for clues. When is he free to have an off-panel battle here?

-Jeph!

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by Michael » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:59 am

When isn't he free? Let's work backwards.
In New Mutants Vol.4 # 10, he's under the control of Worm at the end of the story. But there's no reason he couldn't have fought Wolverine under the influence of Worm or gotten free somehow and later attacked Wolverine.
In New Avengers 41 we see him fighting the Skrulls and no one returns him to jail.
In New Avengers 6, he's in SHIELD custody, but he must have escaped before New Avengers 41.
In Weapon X 18, he's still working for Weapon X. He eventually becomes disobedient, and gets thrown in the Raft, which is where he is at the start of New Avengers 1. Could that disobedience have included attacking Wolverine?
Before this, he's in the Weapon X program from Deadpool 57 to Weapon X 18. Could one of his missions have involved Wolverine?
Before this, he's in SHIELD custody in UX 356 after the events of UX 351-356. Could he have escaped?
Before UX 351, he last appears in X-Men Unlimited 6. He's seemingly left a mindless beast at the end of that story but eventually recovers, so there's nothing stopping him from appearing between X-Men Unlimited 6 and UX 351.
Before that, he last appears in Wolverine (vol. 2) 71, and the X-Men let him go free at the end of that story.
Before Wolverine 69-71, he last appears in Sleepwalker 17 and escapes at the end of that story.
(Incidentally, is the Ka-Zar of the Savage Land story by Chuck Dixon in 1997 canon? It doesn't matter, since Sauron appears to die at the end in an explosion but it's a typical "villain seems to die in an explosion but nobody really checks" ending. I'm just curious since it's not in Sauron's chronology.)
Last edited by Michael on Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by JephYork » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:26 am

Hmm. Probably not when he's a mindless beast in the Savage Land, then. There aren't any islands in the Antarctic for Wolvie to get stranded on.

Is New Avengers #41 one of those "flashback" issues that take place sometime prior to Secret Invasion? If so, when does it cocur?

-Jeph!

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by Michael » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:28 am

JephYork wrote:Hmm. Probably not when he's a mindless beast in the Savage Land, then. There aren't any islands in the Antarctic for Wolvie to get stranded on.
He recovers off panel, so it could take place any time after X-Men Unlimited 6.
JephYork wrote:Is New Avengers #41 one of those "flashback" issues that take place sometime prior to Secret Invasion? If so, when does it cocur?

-Jeph!
No, it takes place during Secret Invasion, when the heroes are stuck in the Savage Land.

By the way, I just realized that Sauron DOES reference the events of the Ka-Zar of the Savage Land story as taking place prior to his appearance in UX 351 in the flashback in UX 354. So the Ka-Zar of the Savage Land story takes place between X-Men Unlimited 6 and the flashback in UX 354. Is that listed in the index? In any case, Sauron shouldn't make any appearances between the Ka-Zar of the Savage Land story and the flashback in UX 354.

I don't have the Rampaging Wolverine story- are Logan's claws shown to be adamantium or bone?

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by JephYork » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:28 pm

He recovers off panel, so it could take place any time after X-Men Unlimited 6.
Actually, my point was that Sauron's *in the Savage Land* that whole time -- as shown in that flashback in UX #354 you referenced just now, where he comes back to the US just prior to UX #353. And if Wolvie fought him in the Savage Land, there wouldn't have been any tropical islands around.

I'll check on Wolvie's claws -- also, we may be able to narrow this down by closing off periods where he wasn't on the team, Nightcrawler wasn't on the team, etc etc.

(And yes, the Ka-Zar story is referenced as Sauron's last appearance prior to the UX #354 fb.)

-Jeph!

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by Michael » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:32 pm

Nightcrawler was a member of Excalibur until UX 360, so we should probably assume this story takes place after UX 360.

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by JephYork » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:38 pm

Okay, I read it again -- Wolvie's wearing his Morrison-era X-jacket with a white t-shirt underneath. That automatically removes any pre-UX #394 slot.

Nightcrawler's wearing what appears to be his "standard" uniform -- the shoulder isn't pointy, but he's got the light colored front/diagonal line/black sides look. (The issue is in B&W, and all we see is his head, neck and shoulder.) He's piloting what looks to me like the standard Blackbird.

To me, this indicates a placement circa UXM #444 -- where the X-Men are changing back over to superhero uniforms, but Wolvie still wears his X-jacket around -- and where they got rid of X-jets and X-planes and put Blackbirds back into rotation.

So, where was Sauron during that era? That's about the time he went from Weapon X to jailed at the Raft, isn't it?

-Jeph!

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by Michael » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:48 pm

Yeah, UX 444 takes place between Weapon X 18 and New Avengers 1. So I guess we'll assume that the battle with Wolverine was one of the incidents that got Sauron thrown in the Raft.

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by JephYork » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:00 pm

Hmm. Wolvie's all over the place between UX #443-444. I don't know that he has time to spend a whole week on an island.

Might havw to ignore that, or conflate it in with other references -- maybe he's been *away from the mansion* for a week, or something, which could be a reference to some other pre-existing bit of globehoppery -- and maybe he was only on the island for two days.

-Jeph!

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by Nathan P. Mahney » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:16 pm

Another possibility is between the Eve of Destruction crossover and the start of the Morrison/Casey era - if we assume that some characters adopted the black leather look before others.
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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by JephYork » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:07 pm

My first insinct is no, as Nightcrawler wasn't on the team at that time. He had briefly quit after Colossus died, and then reappeared with no explanation in #394 as part of the team.

He could have rejoined off-panel prior to everyone switching over to the Morrison looks, I suppose. But the outfit he's wearing isn't his "Revolution" look, it's the classic look that he readopted in UX #444. And he's got this happy jaunty smile in this story that doesn't say "hey, I'm still getting over my buddy's death".

-Jeph!

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by Michael » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:13 pm

JephYork wrote: And he's got this happy jaunty smile in this story that doesn't say "hey, I'm still getting over my buddy's death".

-Jeph!
Well, we've placed several Beast stories where he's smiling right after Phoenix's death. Besides, Nightcrawler's a Claremont character- they love life and get over deaths relatively quickly.

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by JephYork » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:27 pm

Indeed. That was just an offhand thing I noticed, though -- my real point is his costume.

We've got Wolverine in his Morrison look (sort of: he's wearing real jeans instead of his leather "X-pants"), and Nightcrawler in something that looks to be his classic costume. The only time those styles overlap is during ReLoad.

-Jeph!

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Re: A few last X-stories to shovel into the Index...

Post by JephYork » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:57 am

Okay -- I placed the Rampaging Wolverine story at the tail end of Wolvie's globetrotting period following Jean's death in X #150 -- just before he returns to the mansion (Nightcrawler gave him a lift maybe?) in ASTONX3 #1.

For Nightcrawler I placed it right before UX #444's baseball game.

For XMU #47, I went with Somebody's suggestion.

-Jeph!

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