Loki in Acts of Vengeance

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Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Michael » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:15 pm

Currently, there are several issues with Loki's Acts of Vengeance chronology. We have Loki's appearance in T 411-412 taking place before A 311 and CA 366. This is problematic- Hercules and Eric Masterson discuss the events of A 311 at the beginning of T 411. Also, part of CA 366 takes place during the Thor/Juggernaut fight in T 411-412.
Then, we have several stories seperating Loki's appearances in XF 49 and XF 50/2. That makes no sense- XF 49 and 50/2 are a continuous story. There's no break for Loki to appear in other stories.
Also, we have Loki appearing in A 311 after CA 365. That's problematic- Loki offers Namor a chance to join his cabal in CA 365, Namor refuses and goes to warn the Avengers. He arrives at the sunken Hydrobase several hours after the sinking. Unless Namor really took his time getting there, we should probably assume his encounter with Namor took place after Hydrobase sunk, as the "meanwhile" captions indicate.

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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by frogcoin » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:03 pm

as you had another thread regarding AOV i decided to upload the entire spreadsheet to show you my placement of AOV. its uploaded in googledocs so you have to open it and scroll down until you find the section regarding AOV.

Note that this is only a work in progress taking as reference the MCP with some modifications that are just my personal point view of the events in a timeline. this spreadsheet is by now outdated in case you would like to look some information beyond that point. As i noted in the other tread, when some cells adjacent to one another are in the same color it implies that theres a conenction between them.

AOV Chronology

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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:00 pm

Where does Loki appear in Punisher #28? Does he appear in only one scene, or throughout the issue?

Also, how is Loki BTS in ASM 326? I thought Kingpin hired Graviton...
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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Michael » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:14 pm

Col_Fury wrote: Also, how is Loki BTS in ASM 326? I thought Kingpin hired Graviton...
Well, it's sort of confusing whether or not the Kingpin was a member of Loki's cabal at this point. In ASM 326, Graviton explains that the Kingpin hired him to kill Peter in exchange for the Kingpin killing the Avengers but in PPTSS 158 (which takes place after ASM 326) the Kingpin is inducted into the cabal. So did the Kingpin and Loki come up with the same idea independently? Or did Loki have something to do with Graviton's hiring?

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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:18 pm

Avengers Spotlight #28/2 shows that Loki approached Mad Thinker twice. Once is revealed in a narrator's caption(weeks ago), then the story opens with Loki asking if Mad Thinker has made up his mind yet.

Magneto reveals in dialogue in Avengers West Coast #53 that Loki approached him more than once.

And then of course, Loki initlaly approached Red Skull at the start of Captain America #365 and Red Skull eventually joins Loki at the end of Captain America #365.

Avengers Annual #19/3 shows Loki recruiting the various villains. Kingpin is supposed to be from Peter Parker #158, Dr. Doom is from Thor #410, Red Skull is from Captain America #365, Magneto and Mandarin are new scenes; their initial recruitments were not previously shown.(Mandarin is already with Loki in Avengers #311 and Magneto is already with Loki in Avengers West Coast #53 and Peter Parker #158)

Now, we could take the Kingpin/Loki flashback that's supposed to be from Peter Parker #158, call it a new scene and place it before Amazing #326. This would mean that Loki approached Kingpin twice, but he's obviously done that with other villains.

This would also mean that Loki is not BTS in Amazing #326, just the Kingpin would be.
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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:49 pm

I have some unanswered questions, but how does this look for Loki during Acts of Vengeance?

T 399
A 300/2
A 310 (prelude)
A@ 19/3 (2:6a)-FB (approaches Kingpin)
T 410 (approaches Dr. Doom)
ASPOT 26 (breakout at Vault)
CA 365/2 (after Vault breakout)
A@ 19/3 (2:6c)-FB (approaches Magneto)
A@ 19/3 (2:6d)-FB (approaches Mandarin)
PPTSS 158 (Kingpin joins)
A 311 (Dr. Doom sinks Avengers Island)
CA 365 (1-9) (Cap learns of Avengers Island sinking)
Q 5 (Avengers salvage Avengers Island)
ASPOT 27
ASPOT 28/2 (approaches Mad Thinker, weeks before rest of ASPOT 28/2)
IM 251-BTS (before Iron Man meets with AWC)
AWC 53 (Iron Man with AWC)
CA 365 (10-17) (Red Skull joins, enters first meeting)
A@ 19/3 (5:1)-FB (first full meeting)
CA 366 (1-4) (first meeting ends)
T 411 (Thor/Juggernaut battle is after Avengers #311 & during Cap 366)
T 412 (continued)
XF 49 (after Thor/Juggernaut battle)
XF 50/2 (continued)
CA 366 (8-16)
???PUN2 28 (1-13:4) (is Loki here?)
PPTSS 160
WOSM 61
???PUN2 28 (13:5-22:6) (or here?)
A 312 (Freedom Force destroys Avengers statues)
PUN2 29 (after Cap #367 for Namor)
PWJ 12 (what happens?)
PWJ 13 (what happens?)
AWC 54 (Magneto bit leads into Avengers #313)
T 413 (Thor leaves to join Avengers)
A 313 (Avengers battle with Mandarin)
AWC 55 (after battle with Mandarin)
ASM 329 (aftermath)
M/SH3 9/2 (what’s this?)
T 426 (after Acts of Vengeance)

I don't own any of the Punisher issues. Where is Loki in Punisher #28? What happens in War Journal #12-13? Do they fit where they are in the above chronology?
-Daron Jensen

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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Peter Fabricius » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:17 pm

No Loki in Pun2 28, Kingpin and Doom only (in both parts)

PWJ 12 Kingpin and Doom continue their rivalry from Pun2 28-29, Bushwacker kills mutant artists, Punisher kills Kingpin's drug dealers. Kingpin hires Bushwacker to kill Punisher.

PWJ 13 Bushwacker vs. Punisher.

Loki, Doom and Kingpin appear in both issues
Only three weeks on the job and already I live for seeing his forehead turn that shade of pink.

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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Michael » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:42 pm

Col_Fury wrote: M/SH3 9/2 (what’s this?)
This is a Thor vs. Loki and Thermal Man story that takes place after Acts of Vengeance. We discussed its placement here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5331
Col_Fury wrote: T 413 (Thor leaves to join Avengers)
A 313 (Avengers battle with Mandarin)
Currently, we've got T 413 placed after A 313. Keep in mind that relatively little time needs to pass between T 413 and T 414. In T 413, Herc leaves to chase after Ulik. In T 414, Herc and Ulik are still fighting when Thor arrives. Currently, we've got multiple stories placed between T 413 and T 414, which doesn't work:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5332

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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:04 pm

Peter Fabricus wrote:No Loki in Pun2 28, Kingpin and Doom only (in both parts)

PWJ 12 Kingpin and Doom continue their rivalry from Pun2 28-29, Bushwacker kills mutant artists, Punisher kills Kingpin's drug dealers. Kingpin hires Bushwacker to kill Punisher.

PWJ 13 Bushwacker vs. Punisher.

Loki, Doom and Kingpin appear in both issues
Thanks Peter!
Michael wrote:This is a Thor vs. Loki and Thermal Man story that takes place after Acts of Vengeance.
Ah, I thought it looked familiar. Thanks Michael!
Michael wrote:Currently, we've got T 413 placed after A 313. Keep in mind that relatively little time needs to pass between T 413 and T 414. In T 413, Herc leaves to chase after Ulik. In T 414, Herc and Ulik are still fighting when Thor arrives. Currently, we've got multiple stories placed between T 413 and T 414, which doesn't work:
I see that T 414-415 are unbroken in Thor's chronology. I own both of these, but I'm out of town for the night and didn't bring them with me. Any chance you could briefly tell me what happens in them? Does T 414 continue directly into T 415?
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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Michael » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:15 pm

In T 414, Thor and Herc fight Ulik who is defeated by Lieutenant Stone and then Eric's ex-wife tells him that she's taking Kevin away from him. T 415 is basically just a retelling of Thor's origin. I don't have a copy of T 415 in front of me, so I'm not sure if it continues from T 414.

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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:59 pm

When do the Avengers learn that Loki is responsible for the Acts of Vengeance?

Thor leaves Dr. Strange's place in Thor #413 to tell the Avengers that Loki is responsible for the Acts of Vengeance. I think it was AWC #54 where the two Avengers teams finally figure out that all the "random" attacks are actually a concerted effort on someone's part. Thor appears in Avengers #313, does he tell them there? Do they know that Loki is responsible yet in Avengers #313?
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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Michael » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:11 pm

Thor tells them in AWC 55. In A 313, they're questioning the Wizard about who's responsible.

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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:32 pm

OK, cool. And AWC #55 is continued right from A #313, isn't it?

So we have:

Thor #413 (Thor leaves to join Avengers)
Avengers #313 (Thor shows up in the middle of the Mandarin fight)
AWC #55 (Thor tells Avengers about Loki, Wizard teleports away, Avengers fight Loki)

Here's another wrinkle, though. The crime boss-in-shadows that Lt. Stone visits before heading off to the Ulik/Hercules fight in Thor #414 is later revealed to be Loki.(in Thor #427)

So if Thor runs back to Hercules right after AWC #55, then Loki also has to run off to be a new crime boss after AWC #55. That would mean that Loki's chronology would be:

AWC #55
Thor #414
ASM #329

Does that make sense for Loki?

Again, I wish I had Thor #413 with me, but does Hercules actually attack Ulik in Thor #413? Or does he just run off after him? Could Hercules have lost track of Ulik and found him a day or three later?(to give Loki enough time to appear in ASM #329?)
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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Michael » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:57 pm

Herc runs off after Ulik. But T 414 is described in the captions as taking place an hour after AWC 55. And the dialogue makes it clear that Thor hasn't seen Herc since T 413.
It's possible Loki already had the crime boss identity established at the time of Acts of Vengeance. (It only takes Loki a fraction of a second to teleport from one place to another.)

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Re: Loki in Acts of Vengeance

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:24 pm

OK, I'm convinced. Thanks! :)

Something I didn't clarify earlier:
Avengers Annual #19/3-FB shows the order that Loki approached his Prime Movers. Kingpin, Dr. Doom, Magneto, Mandarin, Red Skull. Making the Kingpin flashback a new scene and placing it before Peter Parker #158 to accommodate/explain ASM #326 lines up with this order, because now we can also place it before Thor #410. So there's one more reason to call it a new scene, or else A@ 19/3-FB would have the order wrong. Yay!

Here it is again for Loki, but without the notes, PUN2 28 removed and Thor #414 added:

T 399
A 300/2
A 310
A@ 19/3 (2:6a)-FB
T 410
ASPOT 26
CA 365/2
A@ 19/3 (2:6c)-FB
A@ 19/3 (2:6d)-FB
PPTSS 158
A 311
CA 365 (1-9)
Q 5
ASPOT 27
ASPOT 28/2
AWC 53
CA 365 (10-17)
A@ 19/3 (5:1)-FB
CA 366 (1-4)
T 411
T 412
XF 49
XF 50/2
CA 366 (8-16)
PPTSS 160
WOSM 61
A 312
PUN2 29
PWJ 12
PWJ 13
AWC 54
T 413
A 313
AWC 55
T 414
ASM 329
M/SH3 9/2 (still being discussed?)
T 426

Thanks a bunch, folks! Now I can look at the rest of the crossover...
-Daron Jensen

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