Thor Corps #3 placement issues

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Kevin W.
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Thor Corps #3 placement issues

Post by Kevin W. » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:51 pm

I'm looking through Thor Corps #3, and need some help: Where does the appearances by Spider-Man 2099, the Guardians of the Galaxy, and Conan the Barbarian go in their respective chronologies? (the Phantom Eagle, Rawhide Kid, Kid Colt, and Two-Gun Kid also appear, but those appearances are in their MCP entries).

I don't know anything about Spider-Man 2099 or the Guardians (could someone list all of the Guardians that appear in this issue?) Spider-Man 2099 mentions having recently encountered a Thor character himself, in what issue did that occur? Likewise, the Guardians mention that they recently encountered Asgardians before (in what issue did that occur)?

As for Conan, he doesn't say anything in his appearance: he's standing on a battlefield (fallen foes all around him), when he turns around to find a NASA astronaut has appeared in his time period. Probably thinking he's a sorcerer, Conan attacks the astronaut...

One idea that I'm tossing around is this: the "Conan the Barbarian" comic ended right about the same time as Thor Corps #3 came out. Would it work to place Conan's appearance between Conan the Barbarian #275 and his next chronological appearance in Savage Sword of Conan #218? (for those that don't know, with CTB being cancelled, Roy Thomas just continued the story he was doing in the pages of SSOC).

I don't own the issues in question, I just discovered this while doing research on the internet...

Any help would be most appreciated.

Later,

Kevin
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Re: Thor Corps #3 placement issues

Post by Jason Doty » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:40 pm

Spider-Man 2099 was probably refering to the "Fall of the Hammer" storyline in the 2099 books. Part 1 - Spider-Man 2099 #16, Part 2 - Ravage 2099 #15, Part 3 - X-Men 2099 #5, Part 4 - Doom 2099 #14, Part 5 - Punisher 2099 #13.

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Re: Thor Corps #3 placement issues

Post by Peter Fabricius » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:23 am

Guardians present are
Charlie-27 bald and in the costume he wore from #32, he begins to have hair again in #44
Nikki, her costume is consistent with what she wore from #33 to #62
Major Victory (Vance Astro) seems to be wearing the black undergarment he received from the Beyonder in #38, this covered him completely in #47
Aleta in the costume she wore from #33 to #45 where she is joined to Starhawk
Talon with the ponytail he has from #30 to #50
The most obvious place for this, is during #39 between pages 35 and 36 (of 38), before he gives Captain America's shield to the new government of the United States

Please note that the Guardians, Spider-Man2099 and the western heroes also appear on the last page of Thor Corps #2
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Re: Thor Corps #3 placement issues

Post by Kevin W. » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:21 pm

Peter Fabricius wrote: Please note that the Guardians, Spider-Man2099 and the western heroes also appear on the last page of Thor Corps #2
Yeah, I saw that, but I attribute that last page to a non-appearance "preview" for the next issue. For instance, that last page shows Eric Masterson materializing between Kid Colt, Rawhide Kid, and the Two-Gun Kid, with all of them pointing their guns at him. In fact, Thor Corps #3 shows Eric materializes in the old west, stops a stage coach robbery, and THEN is confronted by the three Marvel Western heroes.
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Re: Thor Corps #3 placement issues

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:26 pm

I don't have the issues on front of me, but why can't #2 overlap with #3? Something like this:

Thor Corps #2 (1-21)
Thor Corps #3 (1-2)
Thor Corps #2 (22)
Thor Corps #3 (3-22)

?
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Re: Thor Corps #3 placement issues

Post by Kevin W. » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:59 pm

Well, the last page of Thor Corps #2 has the words "Next issue: Reality goes total wacko as Dargo Ktor meets up with the Spider-Man of 2099, Beta Ray Bill is confronted by the Guardians of the Galaxy, and Eric Masterson saddles up with Kid Colt, the Rawhide Kid, and the Two-Gun Kid!"

And we see an image of Spider-Man 2099 leaping at Dargo, the Guardians charging towards Bill, and the Western heroes pointing guns at Eric. All three of the Thor Corps members have an aura around them, showing they have just materialized into those respective worlds.

Then, in Issue #3, we see Beta Ray Bill wandering around a spaceship, unsure of where he's at, and THEN stumbled upon by the Guardians, who attack him. Meanwhile, Spider-Man 2099 is bouncing around back alleys in his timeline, when he stumbles across Dargo standing in an alley (without the aura around him, showing he's already materialized when Spider-Man spots him). And as I mentioned, when we see Eric, he's stopping a stage coach robbery, and THEN is confronted by the three Western heroes who have just arrived on the scene. Eric didn't encounter the Western heroes as depicted in Issue #2 and THEN goes and stops the stage coach robbery and THEN meets the three Western heroes again: Eric thinks to himself in issue #3 "Ohmigosh! I'd recognize these three anywhere! They're exactly like the History books described them!" His dialogue is not "Oh! It's these three again, who were pointing guns at me at the end of last issue"...

Also, the Marvel Chronology Project lists the Western Heroes as appearing in Thor Corps #3, but doesn't list them as appearing in Thor Corps #2.

So yeah, the last page of Issue #2 is a preview for next issue.

Oh, and thanks Peter: during the pages of Guardians of the Galaxy #39 it is for the Guardians appearance! And Jason, for Spider-Man 2099, it's after Spider-Man 2099 #16, but can we narrow it down further? I just need a spot where Spider-Man can be patrolling the back alleys, would between #16 and 17 work?

Now, is there any Conan experts on here?!?
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Re: Thor Corps #3 placement issues

Post by Jason Doty » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:27 pm

Kevin, michaelyuri has an extensive 2099 chronology in the alternate universe forum here. He places the the appearance between pages of Spider-Man 2099 no.16 (I'm unsure of as to why, I never collected Spider-Man 2099, but have the issue). If it fall after the storyline, I'd say between Punisher 2099 no.13 and Spider-Man 2099 no.17-fb. I'd suggest talking to him, since he seems to be the expert on the 2099 universe.

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Re: Thor Corps #3 placement issues

Post by Kevin W. » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:31 pm

Yes, I see what you're referring to now. Michaelyuri has his chronology like this:

SMTNN 15
SMTNN 16 (4-11)
TC 3 (7)
TC 2 (30:1)
TC 3 (8-11)
SMTNN@ 1-FB (14-22)
SMTNN 16 (14-30)
RTNN 15
XMTNN 5
DTNN 14
PTNN 13
SMTNN 17-FB (2:3-19)
SMTNN 17

I'm more inclined to have the appearance after Spider-Man 2099 #16, but does the dialogue from Thor Corps #3 suggest it does indeed occur during Spider-Man 2099 #16? In Thor Corps #3, Spider-Man thinks "No sooner did I finally stop the Fenris from terrorizing downtown than some character claiming to be the real Thor shows up!*"

And then there's a narrators caption which reads "See Spider-Man 2099 #15 for details". Note that Spider-Man 2099 #15 came out in January '94, while Thor Corps #3 came out in November '93.

Spider-Man then runs into Dhargo and thinks "Either this guy is a fanatical Thorite, or he's connected to that new Thunder God!" He then attacks Dhargo and says "Hey Buddy! I want to know what's going on in Valhalla! I've already seen your so-called Thor, and I'm less than impressed!"

Regarding the Guardians of the Galaxy, someone else pointed out to me that one of the Guardians in Thor Corps #3 says (re: Beta Ray Bill): "This character is dressed a lot like those Asgardians we recently encountered!" And apparently this Asgardian storyline was from GotG #40-43. So placement during the pages of GotG #39 won't work after all (and that Vance carrying Captain America's shield is either an art error or Vance is carrying a replica).

Thoughts?
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Re: Thor Corps #3 placement issues

Post by michaelyuri » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:35 am

The editor's note in Thor Corps #3 refers to Spider-Man meeting Thor in Spider-Man 2099 #15. That scene, however, continues directly into Spider-Man #16, which is the beginning of the Fall of the Hammer crossover which runs through Ravage 2099 #15, X-Men 2099 #5, Doom 2099 #14, and Punisher 2099 #13. It then continues directly into the flashback in Spider-Man 2099 #17. There are no obvious breaks in the storyline.

Here's the problem. In the Fall of the Hammer, Spider-Man learns all about Avatarr's plot to engineer Norse gods, and Thor is defeated (and apparently killed) in Punisher 2099 #13. In Thor Corps #3, on the other hand, Spider-Man doesn't seem to know anything about the new Thor and clearly believes he's still alive.

To deal with this, I shoehorned Thor Corps into the middle of SM2099 #16, after Thor apparently throws Miguel off of Valhalla and before he returns as Spider-Man. It's not an ideal fit. In Thor Corps, Spider-Man is down in the city, while in SM2099 #16, it doesn't appear that he actually leaves Valhalla when Thor throws him. I rationalized it by assuming he left Valhalla to get his costume (maybe from where he had stashed his clothes in SM2099 #15).

The other place I considered squeezing it into was later in SM2099 #16 after Spider-Man gets hit by Thor's hammer and buried in the rubble. That way he would be more or less in the right place, but we would have to assume that he emerged from the rubble, had the encounter from Thor Corps, and then got buried in the rubble again off panel before the Punisher finds him. Also, the Punisher's dialogue in Ravage 2099 #15 implies that it follows immediately after the Punisher saw Spider-Man get hit with the hammer.

The only other option I saw was to place it during the flashback in SM2099 #17, after Spider-Man leaves the Punisher, but before he sees his mother at the rally (between pages 11 & 13 in the original numbering*). The setting is right, but this would require ignoring the dialogue in Thor Corps #3.

Any opinions on where this scene belongs? Are there any other good options that I missed?


*In the 2099 chronologies, I indicated page ranges using the original printed page numbers. At some point I'll go back through and fix these to conform with the rest of the MCP, but I haven't got around to it yet.
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Re: Thor Corps #3 placement issues

Post by Peter Fabricius » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:40 pm

I took another look at the Guardians, and Thor Corps #3 can be squeezed in between #43 and #44. This is the last possible gap before Vance gets completely covered by the black suit and Talon is mutated.
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