Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

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Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by Jason Doty » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:01 pm

Invisible Woman (off panel)
Human Torch
Thing
Doctor Strange
Vincent Destine
Cuckoo
Adam Destine
Jimmy Hendrix
Albert Einstein
Florence Destine
Gracie Destine
Albert Destine

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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by DonCampbell » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:27 pm

Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman are both VO since we readers hear their voices as they call Ben Grimm and Johnny Storm's private lines, respectively, and leave messages on their answering machines.

Jimi Hendrix is mentioned only (he "hasn't even played yet") so he might be OP.

William Destine is at Woodstock (before his time as Cap'n Oz). Maurice Destine, Sebastian Destine and Newton Destine are all also at Woodstock but OP only.

Dominic Destine, Walter Destine and Samantha Destine all appear as well.

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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:41 pm

Is Destine the surname of all these family members? For example, should it be Samantha Hasard and Maurice Fortuit?

Also, aren't Franklin and Valeria BTS here? Reed notes that the kids are having a good time on vacation.

BTW, this is a flashback story that should occur before FF 583.
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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by DonCampbell » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 am

1. All family members have the Destine surname. However, many of them use aliases as part of the Relative Strangers Protocol in order to hide their longevity. Aside from Hazard and Fortuit, other false surnames are Chance, Fate, and Gamble.

2. Would the fact that "the kids" are mentioned (but not heard) on the phones calls make them BTS or OP? I'm not sure of the distinction.

3. The story itself is not a flashback and in fact does not include any flashbacks. It consists of a "present-tense story" that happens to have taken place "some time ago" and this "present" acts as bookends to visits to seven other time periods (incuding the Jurassic Era and Woodstock in 1969). Of course, I could be wrong about this since I'm not sure how time travel stories are handled by the Project.

Also, and I'm afraid that this will be NO help at all, Alan Davis has been writing all his ClanDestine stories as he originally plotted them back in 1994. Thus, Fantastic Four Annual #33 takes place "days" after the 2008 ClanDestine miniseries which took place "soon after" the X-Men/ClanDestine crossover. And that miniseries features a Wolverine with bone claws and a footnote that states that "These events take place prior to Wolverine #100." Yikes!

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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:16 am

The kids would be BTS. OP means the character is just off-panel, if you look to the right or left of what's shown they'd be there. It's like if Mr. Fantastic says "Hey, Johhny" but we don't see Johnny, he's OP. He right there, off-panel, but we don't see him.
DonCampbell wrote:The story itself is not a flashback and in fact does not include any flashbacks. It consists of a "present-tense story" that happens to have taken place "some time ago" and this "present" acts as bookends to visits to seven other time periods (incuding the Jurassic Era and Woodstock in 1969). Of course, I could be wrong about this since I'm not sure how time travel stories are handled by the Project.
If it's time travel then no, we wouldn't use the "FB" tag on the past scenes.
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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by DonCampbell » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:07 am

The kids would be BTS. OP means the character is just off-panel, if you look to the right or left of what's shown they'd be there. It's like if Mr. Fantastic says "Hey, Johhny" but we don't see Johnny, he's OP. He right there, off-panel, but we don't see him.
Ah, if that's the diference between BTS and OP, then Maurice, Sebastian and Newton Destine are all BTS because it is mentioned that they are there at Woodstock but not just off-panel since the speaker (Will) is at the Destine van which is parked well away from the concert/crowd. Jimi Hendrix would thus also be BTS.

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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by Somebody » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:31 pm

DonCampbell wrote:Also, and I'm afraid that this will be NO help at all, Alan Davis has been writing all his ClanDestine stories as he originally plotted them back in 1994. Thus, Fantastic Four Annual #33 takes place "days" after the 2008 ClanDestine miniseries which took place "soon after" the X-Men/ClanDestine crossover. And that miniseries features a Wolverine with bone claws and a footnote that states that "These events take place prior to Wolverine #100." Yikes!
Well it couldn't take place in the present day anyway, since Dr. Strange is in his full regalia here, including Eye of Agamotto.

Of course, the Baxter Building may be more of a problem to placing it THAT far back, since they didn't get a new Baxter Building until 2001.

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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:37 pm

DonCampbell wrote:Ah, if that's the diference between BTS and OP, then Maurice, Sebastian and Newton Destine are all BTS because it is mentioned that they are there at Woodstock but not just off-panel since the speaker (Will) is at the Destine van which is parked well away from the concert/crowd. Jimi Hendrix would thus also be BTS.
Agreed.
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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by Michael » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:49 pm

Somebody wrote:
DonCampbell wrote:Also, and I'm afraid that this will be NO help at all, Alan Davis has been writing all his ClanDestine stories as he originally plotted them back in 1994. Thus, Fantastic Four Annual #33 takes place "days" after the 2008 ClanDestine miniseries which took place "soon after" the X-Men/ClanDestine crossover. And that miniseries features a Wolverine with bone claws and a footnote that states that "These events take place prior to Wolverine #100." Yikes!
Well it couldn't take place in the present day anyway, since Dr. Strange is in his full regalia here, including Eye of Agamotto.

Of course, the Baxter Building may be more of a problem to placing it THAT far back, since they didn't get a new Baxter Building until 2001.
Reed says that "Sue and the KIDS are having a great time" so this has to take place sometime after Valeria is born in FF3 54.

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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by DonCampbell » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Michael wrote:Reed says that "Sue and the KIDS are having a great time" so this has to take place sometime after Valeria is born in FF3 54.
I agree that that's certainly what Alan Davis meant but the fact that "the kids" are not actually named leaves some wiggle room. If it were to become absolutely necessary for the story to take place before Valeria's birth, then one could argue that the kids that Reed mentioned were actually Franklin and one or more of his friends from Power Pack.

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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by Paul Bourcier » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:02 pm

Well it couldn't take place in the present day anyway, since Dr. Strange is in his full regalia here, including Eye of Agamotto.

Of course, the Baxter Building may be more of a problem to placing it THAT far back, since they didn't get a new Baxter Building until 2001.
So, given Strange's chronology, which comic must this annual occur before? And can that occur after the new Baxter Building was built? After Valeria was born?
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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by DonCampbell » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:40 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:
Somebody wrote:Well it couldn't take place in the present day anyway, since Dr. Strange is in his full regalia here, including Eye of Agamotto.
Of course, the Baxter Building may be more of a problem to placing it THAT far back, since they didn't get a new Baxter Building until 2001.
So, given Strange's chronology, which comic must this annual occur before? And can that occur after the new Baxter Building was built? After Valeria was born?
The old Baxter Building was destroyed in Fantastic Four #278 (May, 1985). The new Baxter Building did not appear until Fantastic Four (vol. 3 ) #39 (March, 2001).

Valeria Richards was born in Fantastic Four (vol. 3) #54 (June, 2002) but her teenaged self appeared somewhat earlier than that and Reed could have been referring to her as one of "the kids."

Strange's current reduction in power did not occur until several years ago when Bendis stripped Doc of much of his power and his title of Sorcerer Supreme sometime after Civil War. However, if you go back to the time when ClanDestine was originally being published, Doc sacrificed most of his powers (but kept the Eye of Agamotto and his cloak of levitation) in late 1992 and didn't regain them until sometime around 1995-1997.

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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by Somebody » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:09 am

DonCampbell wrote:Strange's current reduction in power did not occur until several years ago when Bendis stripped Doc of much of his power and his title of Sorcerer Supreme sometime after Civil War. However, if you go back to the time when ClanDestine was originally being published, Doc sacrificed most of his powers (but kept the Eye of Agamotto and his cloak of levitation) in late 1992 and didn't regain them until sometime around 1995-1997.
Sensational Spider-Man v1 #22 (cover-dated Dec '97), to be precise, where he's reset to his classic status quo in a brief "remember that depowerment thing? Don't." prologue.

Not directly relevant though - I'd consider FF3 39 the early bound for a placement, long after that, and probably the start of the Waid run (FF3 60), by which time Ben's not shifting back & forth any more and Valeria's been reborn, as the late bound.

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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by Paul Bourcier » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:26 am

Then shall we say sometime between FF3 54 (Valeria's birth) and FF3 60 (Somebody's suggestion)?
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Re: Fantastic Four Annual v1 #33

Post by Col_Fury » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:56 am

I finally got around to reading these Annuals and caught some references I haven't seen mentioned here yet.

In the Daredevil Annual, Dr. Strange says that ClanDestine #8 took place "Many years ago." So there's that.

Also, in the Wolverine Annual Wolverine is wearing his "Astonishing" uniform, which he didn't start wearing until 2004. That's a full two years (publication time) after FF3 54-60. Placing these Annuals around FF3 54-60 would mean placement around Uncanny 407-414 and Wolverine 176-182. I... don't think that works.

Also, Professor Stanley from Thor: The Truth of History appears, and dies!, in the Wolverine Annual. Truth of History came out in December 2008. Granted, the present day part of Truth of History could take place at any time, only the archeologists appear in that portion. BUT, it does suggest that these Annuals take place after comics published in December 2008. Unfortunately, that's smack in the middle of Secret Invasion, and Dr. Strange already had his power reduction by then...

I think we're looking at a placement somewhere between FF 550 (original FF team reunited) and World War Hulk (Dr. Strange's hands are broken and he uses dark magics).
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