Doctor Strange chronology

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

Moderators: Paul Bourcier, Kevin W., Col_Fury, Arthur, JephYork, Somebody

User avatar
SanctumSanctorumBlog
Minion
Minion
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by SanctumSanctorumBlog » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:59 am

Was just doing some research online and EVERY source I can find list Blood and Thunder as coming before Siege of Darkness. Then comes Phalanx Covenant and THEN comes Starblast.
Is there some reason that this can not be?
The lists and publishing data put INFINITY CRUSADE as occurring just before Blood and Thunder.

***UPDATE EDIT***

Looking at publishing dates, THOR 486 (the first issue of Blood and Thunder) came out in November 1993 and THOR 471 (the last issue of Blood and Thunder) came out in Feb 1994.
The 1st issue of Starblast came out in Jan 1994, so it seems to me that the events of Blood and Thunder should come before Starblast.

I KNOW that publishing dates often mean less than nothing in the overall temporal jigsaw puzzle of comic events, but this seems to be fairly cut and dried to me (although, I have never read Starblast - but can do so now if need be).

As far as I can see, the only character(s) in both events is Adam Warlock (and Pip and Moondragon) who is in the first 2 parts of Starblast. (Starblast # 1 and Quasar # 54).
I'd have to go pull the issues to read and see if there's any reason Warlock needs to be in Starblast before Blood&Thunder, but I won't unless you need for me to do so.

I do realize that if you guys have been placing Starblast issues BEFORE Blood and Thunder event issues then there would need to be some massive rejiggering of several character databases.
If so, I can empathize.
Just trying to help.

~P~

User avatar
SanctumSanctorumBlog
Minion
Minion
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by SanctumSanctorumBlog » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:53 am

Instead of adding yet another UPDATE EDIT to my previous post, please pardon me if I just toss in a new one.

OK.
Silver Surfer is in Blood and Thunder (his issues # 86, 87, 88).
In issue 87, Surfer and Warlock go to Dr Strange's Sanctum.
It is intact and Strange is still Sorcerer Supreme.

In Silver Surfer # 93, after coming back to Earth for the wedding of Rick Jones (Hulk # 418) the Surfer then goes to the Fantastic Four to tell them that Frankie Ray (NOVA II) is dead (from the events in SS #75).
Anyway, upon hearing the news of NOVA's death Johnny Storm (Human Torch) goes nuts and attacks Surfer.
(This is because Reed Richards had just died shortly before this issue and Johnny also found out that his wife [supposedly Alicia Masters] is really a skrull).

SO... during the skirmish between Surfer and Torch they crash land on the RUINS of Dr Strange's Sanctum.

This definitely puts Blood and Thunder BEFORE Doc's mansion being destroyed in SIEGE of DARKNESS (DRSTR3 60).

Let me know if you need anything else.
I love this stuff.

~P~

User avatar
Col_Fury
Director
Director
Posts: 6310
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:37 am
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by Col_Fury » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:55 pm

Thanks, SanctumSanctorumBlog!

Hey Paul, what were the reasons for our current placements for Starblast and Blood and Thunder?
SanctumSanctorumBlog wrote:I love this stuff.
Me too. :)
-Daron Jensen

Michael
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 1177
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:41 am

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by Michael » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:47 pm

I seem to remember that one complicating factor that we discussed last year was that Q 54 is part of the Starblast crossover. In that issue, Warlock references Thor's madness and Rachel Summers appears:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5892

User avatar
SanctumSanctorumBlog
Minion
Minion
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by SanctumSanctorumBlog » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:28 pm

Starblast was one of Marvel's all-time worst organized crossovers.
The thing was just a mess.
(I actually remember the troubles that readers were complaining about back then - when I was working in a comic shoppe. One of the reasons I just didn't care to read it at the time.)

Perhaps, Thor's madness was oncoming before it officially exploded in Blood and Thunder, so that it was something gossiped about by the cosmic set?

I'll crack open some issues and see what I can glean.

~P~

User avatar
SanctumSanctorumBlog
Minion
Minion
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by SanctumSanctorumBlog » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:47 pm

Waitaminute...
if the problem is that in Quasar 54, (a Starblast issue,) he mentions Thor's madness... then that is perfectly FINE, since Blood and Thunder comes BEFORE Starblast.

That way no matter what tense he is speaking it could be accurate:

1) If Quasar spoke of Thor's madness in the past tense; "Boy, was Thor bat-$#!T crazy, or what?", then that would be fine.
2) If Quasar spoke of Thor's madness in the present tense: "Hey! You guys hear that Thor is off his gourd?", then that would also be ok, since Quasar was not in Blood and Thunder and would have no idea that the problem was eventually fixed.

So... does THAT help any?

Michael
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 1177
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:41 am

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by Michael » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:04 pm

It's WARLOCK who speaks of Thor's madness in Q 54- and he speaks of going to investigate it. There's no way that Q 54 can take place after the end of Blood and Thunder because Warlock learns why Thor is crazy during Blood and Thunder.

Paul Bourcier
Director
Director
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 am
Location: Florida

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:11 pm

Just to clarify...here's the dialog that establishes the tie-in between Starblast and Blood and Thunder --
Quasar #54, page 7 -- Adam Warlock says, "We have a choice, Pip: To answer Quasar's summons or to investigate the madness that has beset the Thunder God, Thor...!"

The two events are really happening at the same time.
Paul B.

lettsmonster
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by lettsmonster » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:48 pm

I can see now why you put SECDEF 11 where you did in the chronology, based on other larger events in the MU. Quasar 54 is definitely the sticking point, with that one comment by Warlock messing everything up! And then Nova following directly into SECDEF 11 from Quasar 54 leaves no wiggle room that I can see to accomodate these major concurrent events. There is missing story in Nova's actions between the two issues (how did he become aware of the alien, how long did it take to find him, how long was he chasing him, etc), but certainly not enough time to account for Blood and Thunder and Siege of Darkness events. Not sure how to get around this one very easily

User avatar
SanctumSanctorumBlog
Minion
Minion
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by SanctumSanctorumBlog » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:21 am

Ahhh... of course... the FUTURE tense. Damn it all.

OK.
So basically, like everything in the MU this is ALL going down at the same time:
Blood and Thunder, Seige of Darkness, and Starblast.

So what I can see are three hitch-points:
1) Warlock's comment in Quasar 54
2) Warlock and Surfer visit Strange's intact Sanctum in Silver Surfer # 87
3) Nova visits Doc's DESTROYED Sanctum in Secret Defenders 11

But it also all comes with one saving grace:
1) NOVA is not in Starblast (proper), as he says; he is just holding the fort on Earth and now looking to find and stop the robot thingee.
So there's no telling HOW MUCH TIME he takes to do this. (And thankfully, Quicksilver is also ONLY in Secret Defenders 11) - Heck, Starblast can be wrapping up at around the same time of this issue, since Nova is cut off from the event.

So, here's a sequence:

1) THOR 468 - Blood and Thunder STARTS FIRST
2) STARBLAST # 1 & QUASAR # 54 (with Warlock's comment - which is maybe a day or so after the start of B-&T - depending on how Warlock learns of Thor's madness [maybe he does so mentally, so it can be quicker])
3) Silver Surfer # 87 - Warlock and Surfer visit Doc (and Doc goes along into Blood and Thunder)
4) Blood and Thunder & Starblast are now occurring simultaneously, however Blood & Thunder ends first.
5) NIGHTSTALKERS # 44 - Siege of Darkness begins at around the same time that B-&-T is ending.
6) GHOST RIDER # 44 - Doctor Strange has returned from B-&-T just in the nick of time and finds the Seige (and swoops in to save Ghost Rider at the proverbial last minute [which is what happens]).
7) SIEGE of DARKNESS issues are here, up til DRSTR3 # 60 & 61 - where his mansion is destroyed and he goes to his pocket dimension
8) SECRET DEFENDERS # 11 - Nova shows up looking for help and Doc, in his pocket realm uses his astral form to fetch Quicksilver and Hulk
9) The Siege of Darkness and Starblast continue to occur simultaneously until their respective ends.

Does that work for everyone?

~P~

metaldragon
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 669
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by metaldragon » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:03 am

Doesn't Blood & Thunder cross over with Infinity Crusade as well?
"May the Light shine forever!"

Paul Bourcier
Director
Director
Posts: 5424
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:51 am
Location: Florida

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by Paul Bourcier » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:33 am

Infinity Crusade does lead into Blood & Thunder for Thor, although I don't think we know how much time elapses between the two crossover events.
Paul B.

metaldragon
Chronology Guru
Chronology Guru
Posts: 669
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by metaldragon » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:12 pm

For Warlock & the Infinity Watch it was pretty continuous if I'm remembering correctly. I don't think much time elapsed.
"May the Light shine forever!"

lettsmonster
Big Bad
Big Bad
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Doctor Strange chronology

Post by lettsmonster » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:25 pm

I have been trying to calculate how much real story time occurs between SS387 and NS15, after which is where I stated earlier is where I feel SECDEF 11 should be moved. In other words, how long did the events that Doctor Strange participated in actually physically take? When returning to read the Blood and Thunder storyline and the Siege of Darkness storyline, they both moved along very rapidly. Doctor Strange's appearances in the Blood and Thunder storyline took at most I estimate 8 hours. For an indeterminate time he was a captive of the trolls, but I don't think it was for very long. Also, the majority of the storyline takes place in Asgard. Does time move different there than on Midgard? That could help with the time issue The Siege of Darkness storyline I feel moves even quicker. Perhaps only 4 to 5 hours of Doctor Strange's time when he returns directly from Asgard to the chaos of the Lilin in NYC. Thus, the time between Nova's Starblast appearances in Q54 (which features Warlock discussing Thor's madness) and then SECDEF 11 could realistically be 12 hours or less. It is not a direct story link between the two issues - there is a gap of unknown events for Nova. I now feel that he had enough issues with the alien that could have accounted for this significant amount of time. Anybody else agree with this after re-reading these storylines?

Locked