DOCTOR STRANGE

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:11 pm

That would certainly help shorten the amount of time between ASM 695-700 and DD3 21. However, we still need to deal with the amount of time that would need to pass between DD3 16 and ASM 695-700. Cap's costume may not be the only factor that would lengthen this time.

Col_Fury wrote:
DD3 16 Giant-Man, Iron Man and Dr. Strange restore Daredevil’s radar sense. “Nine days” after DD3 13-FB. Foggy reveals he found Jack Murdock’s bones and fires Matt. Before Wasp’s return.
Daron, what clue leads us to place DD3 16 before A4 31 (the start of the arc in which Wasp returns)? A4 31 occurs immediately after AVX. In that issue we see the news coverage of the global aftermath of the battle with Phoenix and Scott Summers being transported by law enforcement officers. Also, A4 31 opens with the Avengers getting well-deserved sleep after what is suggested to be the climax of AVX. If DD3 16 occurs before the Wasp returns, it may well need to occur before AVX.

Yet that would be a problem because Carol Danvers appears in her new costume (and called Captain Marvel?) in DD3 15. Carol didn't adopt the new costume (and name) until after AVX.
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:34 pm

Col_Fury wrote:
DD3 13-FB picks up the day after DD3 12. Daredevil “battles” the New Avengers (Spider-Man, Wolverine, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Mockingbird), who are disguised as Black Spectre and Hydra agents. After the “fight,” Daredevil is teleported to Latveria. “16 hours” later in DD3 13, Foggy finds Jack Murdock’s bones in Matt’s office.
Since Cage appears here as an Avenger, DD3 13-FB must occur before NA2 31-34, the arc that culminates in Cage leaving the Avengers. In that arc, Carol has her new costume and is going by the name Captain Marvel (thus after CM7 1), as she does in DD3 15. Also, Cap has his classic costume in NA2 31-34, as he does in DD3 18-FB (between DD3 17-18).

NA2 31-34 should occur before A5 1 (in which Cap's costume changes), and as noted before, A5 1-3 should occur before ASM 698, in which Cap appears in his new costume.

It looks like that gap in DD3 is growing.
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:09 pm

Col_Fury wrote:
DD3 15 Daredevil is rescued by the Avengers. Iron Man appears, and Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) is in her new suit.
Still trying to reconcile these issues of DD3 (which I don't own) with chronology clues in other comics. Is Carol referred to as "Captain Marvel" in DD3 15 or is she just wearing the new costume and sporting the new haircut? The new look (appearing on page 1 of CM7 1) came before she adopted the name (page 14 of CM7 1) (and both are after AVX). Given how A5 31 begins, I was tempted to place A5 31-34 before CM7 1 and cite that arc as the first chronological appearance of the new look. But then we have DD3 15 needing to occur before A5 31 given some Wasp reference, but after AVX given Carol's look. Daredevil's chronology demands that DD3 12-16 go together so the whole arc would need to occur after DD's appearances in AVX. And that arc takes ten days to happen. So now A5 31-34 would need to occur a good week and a half (at least) after AVX, despite the way A5 31 appears to begin. Ugh.
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:31 am

Paul Bourcier wrote:Daron, what clue leads us to place DD3 16 before A4 31 (the start of the arc in which Wasp returns)?
Giant-Man is shrunken down and running around inside Daredevil's brain. His antennae is damaged and his and Daredevil's memories mingle. Afterward, they bond over their respective experiences of dead lovers/wives. Because Giant-Man considers Wasp to be dead at this point, it has to happen before she's not "dead" anymore. Therefore, before her return.
Paul Bourcier wrote:Is Carol referred to as "Captain Marvel" in DD3 15 or is she just wearing the new costume and sporting the new haircut?
She's wearing the new suit and has the new haircut. She doesn't have any dialogue, and no one talks to her. She's just part of the group of Avengers that helps rescue Daredevil.
Paul Bourcier wrote:So now A5 31-34 would need to occur a good week and a half (at least) after AVX, despite the way A5 31 appears to begin.
I'm not too concerned about this. One of the first things I toss out is a Bendis Temporal ReferenceTM.
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:55 am

I think Bendis wrote A4 31 as a morning after story relative to AVX, but given Carol's costume and Pym's ignorance of Jan's survival in DD3 15-16, there's going to have to be a gap between AVX and A4 31. This gap would also help accommodate Carol's haircut and costume change, which appear in A4 33, later the same day as A4 31.

So how do we explain what we see in A4 31? The Avengers must be sleeping off the exhaustion caused by an adventure other than the climax of AVX. All the news reports that Cap is looking at on monitors in Avengers Tower may be live or recorded broadcasts. Scott's detainment by law enforcement seen here on one of the broadcasts could be a flashback or it could be live. Since Scott is carried away with his containment helmet before a group of anti-mutant protesters, this video would not show his initial arrest at the end of AVX, but rather a prisoner transfer scene -- he may be escorted from a SHIELD holding unit to the Brig, where he next appears in AVX 12 (31-35).

The appearance of Scott's inhibitor helmet in that video in A4 31 must occur after UX2 20, in which Cyclops is held at a SHIELD holding unit and Sinister notes that an inhibitor helmet is being prepared for Scott. UX2 20 occurs a "few weeks" after UX2 17, which happens in the midst of AVX.

I'll do some juggling here, inserting CM7 1, DD3 12-16, and UX2 20 (and maybe other comics) between AVX and A5 31. I don't think we'll be able to move A4 31-34 so far from AVX that the necessary gap in DD3 is neglible, but we'll see.

Thanks, Daron.
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:54 pm

Does Dr. Strange have the Cloak of Levitation and the Eye of Agamotto in DD3 16? If so, it must occur after NA2 34 (and conflict with Cage's presence in DD3 13-FB); if not, it must occur before NA2 31 (putting yet more time in that DD3 gap).
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:13 pm

Here's my bigger MU analysis of that proposed gap between DD3 16 and 18. Is there any present-day material in DD3 17?

DAREDEVIL v3 #13-FB
Cage appears here as part of the New Avengers. Daredevil is transported to Latveria. It's "nine days" before DD3 16.

DAREDEVIL v3 #13-14
The day after DD3 13-FB, so eight days before DD3 15. Daredevil gets his radar sense taken away.

DAREDEVIL v3 #15-16
Eight days after DD3 14. The Avengers save Daredevil. Pym doesn't know Wasp is alive. Dr. Strange (hopefully) does not have his Cloak of Levitation or Eye of Agamotto.

AVENGERS v4 #31-34 (1-29)
This arc may take only a day. The Wasp returns.

AVENGERS v4 #34 (30-32)
The "Saturday" after A4 34 (1-29) and the "week" before A5 1 (4-6). During Jan's welcome back party, Cap and Stark consider the prospect of growing the Avengers. Strange is not shown with the Cloak of Levitation or Eye of Agamotto.

NEW AVENGERS v2 #31-34
This arc probably takes two days and ends with Cage quitting the Avengers and Dr. Strange regaining his status as Sorcerer Supreme (complete with Cloak of Levitation and Eye of Agamotto).

NEW AVENGERS v3 #1-3
Strange appears here with Cloak and Eye. The arc takes seven days and should consume the attention of the heroes in this Illuminati team, who are dealing with a global threat from Necropolis/Wakanda. [Together, NA2 31-34 and NA3 1-3 would take up most if not all of that week between A4 34 (30-32) and A5 1 (4-6).]

AVENGERS v5 #1 (4-6)
One day during the "week" after A4 34 (30-32). Cap has a dream that is a residual memory from NA3 1-3. This segment occurs "one month" before A5 1 (7-17). During that time, Cap and Stark gather new Avengers (as seen in subsequent FBs) but can appear in other comics.

AVENGERS v5 #1 (7-17)
"One month" after A5 1 (4-6). Villains defeat the Avengers on Mars and send the defeated Cap back to Earth. This must be Cap's last appearance in classic costume (except perhaps for art error).

AVENGERS v5 #1 (18-21) - AVENGERS v5 #3
"Three days" after A5 1 (7-17), Cap has his new costume and leads a team of new Avengers to save his teammates on Mars. Spidey is still Peter Parker.

UNCANNY AVENGERS #1-4
A span of two days. Cap has his new costume.

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #695-697
This arc takes place during one day. Spidey fights Goblins.

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #699 (9:5-9:6)-FB
The same night as ASM 697. Doc Ock's octobot hacks into Spidey's brain and rewrites it with Otto's brain patterns and transfers Peter's brain patterns to Ock's dying body.

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #698-700
I'd place this arc during the day after ASM 699-FB. Octavius's body dies. Cap appears in his new costume. Uncanny Avengers appear.

AVENGING SPIDER-MAN #15.1
A span of the five days following ASM 700, culminating in Octavius's creation of a new costume for his "superior" Spider-Man.

SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN #1
A span of the two days following AvSM 15.1

SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN #2 (1-5)
The new Spidey's "second day of the job."

DAREDEVIL v3 #18-22
A span of three days. The new Spidey/Ock appears here.


It looks like we're looking at a gap of at least two months between DD3 16 and 18.
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Jason Doty » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:40 pm

Paul, Since your trying to figure out the span of time between the Gap, You will also have to account for Uncanny Avengers first arc, since they appear in Amazing Spider-Man #698-700

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:52 pm

So true. Uncanny Avengers #1-4 (a two-day span in which Cap appears in his new costume) must occur between A5 3 and ASM 698-700. Thanks!
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Frans » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:28 pm

Paul Bourcier wrote:Here's my bigger MU analysis of that proposed gap between DD3 16 and 18. Is there any present-day material in DD3 17?
Yes there is. Daredevil standing on a street corner, pondering the fact that this corner (buildings and such) have been destroyed time and again. And the last page where Daredevil is in costume using his clubs to glide between buildings.
Paul Bourcier wrote: DAREDEVIL v3 #15-16
Eight days after DD3 14. The Avengers save Daredevil. Pym doesn't know Wasp is alive. Dr. Strange (hopefully) does not have his Cloak of Levitation or Eye of Agamotto.
He's not wearing the cloak nor the eye. He did wear the cloak in DD3@1... The issue with Clan Destine.

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Paul Bourcier » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:03 pm

Thanks, Frans. Good to know!
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Michael » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:09 pm

What about the current Deadpool arc? Cap is wearing his old costume when he decapitates Zombie Truman in issue 1 and Strange seems to have his powers back when he appears in issues 2-3.

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Col_Fury » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:36 am

It sounds like the Deadpool issues would happen after New Avengers v3 #1-3 and during the month gap in Avengers v5 #1 (after Dr. Strange gets his powers back and before Cap changes his suit).

Thanks Michael!
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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Jason Doty » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:10 pm

Hey Fury, this character by character fleshing out has been pretty fun. Now that Doctor Strange has been locked down pretty well, Who's next?

If your taking suggestions, I'm thinking maybe Cage, Thing, Spider-Man. Anyone making appearances in multiple books would be pretty cool.

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Re: DOCTOR STRANGE

Post by Russ Chappell » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:46 pm

Jason Doty wrote:Who's next?
Wait and see. :)

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