ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:34 am

The 1989 Annual crossover Atlantis Attacks is a mess. Here’s a handy reference of the chapters with a Namor sub-plot and the appearing Brides of Set noted:

SS@ 2 (Chapter 1)
IM@ 10 (Chapter 2) (Namor “dies”)
UX@ 13 (Chapter 3) (Storm)
ASM@ 23 (Chapter 4) (She-Hulk)
PUN@ 2 (Chapter 5)
PPTSS@ 9 (Chapter 6) (Dagger)
DD@ 5 (Chapter 7)
A@ 18 (Chapter 8) (Invisible Woman, Scarlet Witch, She-Hulk)
NM@ 5 (Chapter 9)
XF@ 4 (Chapter 10) (Andromeda, Marvel Girl)
WOSM@ 5 (Chapter 11) (Invisible Woman)
AWC@ 4 (Chapter 12) (Andromeda, Dagger, Invisible Woman, Marvel Girl, Scarlet Witch, She-Hulk, Storm)
T@ 14 (Chapter 13) (Andromeda, Dagger, Invisible Woman, Marvel Girl, Scarlet Witch, She-Hulk, Storm)
FF@ 22 (Chapter 14) (Namor revealed as alive; Andromeda, Dagger, Invisible Woman, Marvel Girl, Scarlet Witch, She-Hulk, Storm)

An adult Storm appears in Atlantis Attacks. Storm is captured by Nanny and the Orphan-Maker in UX 246-248 (’89) and de-aged; she’s not re-aged until the X-Tinction Agenda (UX 270-272, ’90-91), so Atlantis Attacks has to happen before UX 246. UX 256-258 (’89-90) are Acts of Vengeance tie-ins.

Atlantis Attacks (adult Storm) -> UX 246 (de-aged Storm) -> UX 256 (AoV)

New Mutants #78 and X-Factor #43 happen concurrently; this is when X-Factor goes into space and the New Mutants kids go to Asgard. New Mutants Annual #5 (Atlantis Attacks) directly reference New Mutants #87 and X-Factor #43 (NM@ 5 happens between pages of NM 87 while X-Factor is in space), and New Mutants #88 and X-Factor #51 happen concurrently; this is when X-Factor returns from space. Marvel Girl appears in Atlantis Attacks in XF@ 4, so XF@ 4 (Atlantis Attacks) happens after X-Factor returns from space.

After XF@ 4, both Marvel Girl and an adult Storm appear in AWC@ 4, T@ 14 & FF@ 22 (all Atlantis Attacks).

NM 78 ~ XF 43 (X-Factor goes into space, kids go to Asgard) -> NM 87 ~ NM@ 5 (Atlantis Attacks, kids return from Asgard) -> NM 88 ~ XF 51 (X-Factor returns from space) -> XF@ 4 (Atlantis Attacks) -> AWC@ 4, T@ 14 & FF@ 22 (Marvel Girl, adult Storm, Atlantis Attacks)

Putting the two chains together, we get:

NM 78 ~ XF 43 (X-Factor goes into space, kids go to Asgard) -> NM 87 ~ NM@ 5 (Atlantis Attacks, kids return from Asgard) -> NM 88 ~ XF 51 (X-Factor returns from space) -> XF@ 4 (Atlantis Attacks) -> AWC@ 4, T@ 14 & FF@ 22 (Marvel Girl, adult Storm, Atlantis Attacks) -> UX 246 (de-aged Storm) -> UX 256 (AoV)

Avengers Spotlight #26 is the start of Acts of Vengeance (Loki causes a breakout at the Vault). This is referenced as in the past in New Mutants #84 (where Loki is BTS; Loki has Tinkerer send Vulture his wings, revealed in NM 86).

Adding this to the chain, we get:

NM 78 ~ XF 43 (X-Factor goes into space, kids go to Asgard) -> NM 86 (after NM 84, which is after ASPOT 26, so AoV) -> NM 87 ~ NM@ 5 (Atlantis Attacks, kids return from Asgard) -> NM 88 ~ XF 51 (X-Factor returns from space) -> XF@ 4 (Atlantis Attacks) -> AWC@ 4, T@ 14 & FF@ 22 (Marvel Girl, adult Storm, Atlantis Attacks) -> UX 246 (de-aged Storm) -> UX 256 (AoV)

This is a little strange, because the New Mutants are is Asgard in NM 78-87 and in UX 253, Moira is worried sick about the missing New Mutants. UX 253 really should be happening during NM 78-87, but whatever. Maybe she just hasn’t heard that they’re back yet.

So we have Acts of Vengeance starts, Atlantis Attacks happens, Acts of Vengeance ends.

Destiny (who appears in NM 78) dies in Uncanny X-Men #255, which is referenced as in the past in New Mutants #86.

NM 78 ~ XF 43 (X-Factor goes into space, kids go to Asgard) -> UX 253 (Moira worried about missing kids) -> UX 255 (Destiny dies, Storm already de-aged) -> NM 86 (after NM 84, which is after ASPOT 26, so AoV) -> NM 87 ~ NM@ 5 (Atlantis Attacks, kids return from Asgard) -> NM 88 ~ XF 51 (X-Factor returns from space) -> XF@ 4 (Atlantis Attacks) -> AWC@ 4, T@ 14 & FF@ 22 (Marvel Girl, adult Storm, Atlantis Attacks) -> UX 246 (de-aged Storm) -> UX 255 (Destiny dies, Storm already de-aged) -> UX 256 (AoV)

Wait, what? How can child-Storm appear in UX 255 before adult-Storm appears in UX@ 13, AWC@ 4, T@ 14, FF@ 22 & UX 246? She can’t, that’s how. But hey! UX 253-255 happen during NM 78-87 now, at least.

OK, more problems:

Avengers Island (or Hydrobase, whatever you want to call it) appears throughout Atlantis Attacks. Avengers Island is destroyed and sunk into the Atlantic in Avengers #311 (and a big deal is made that it’s never rebuilt). A 311 is an Acts of Vengeance tie-in. Captain America #365 starts immediately after Avengers Island is destroyed (A 311) and Namor is put into a coma. Hank Pym revives Namor in Captain America #367, and then Namor appears in the rest of Acts of Vengeance. Namor is believed to be dead by all the heroes throughout Atlantis Attacks (he “dies” in IM @10, everyone is shocked to see him alive in FF@ 22)

Let’s ignore Storm for a moment. If the above chain holds (Acts of Vengeance starts, Atlantis Attacks happens, Acts of Vengeance ends), here’s how it looks for Namor:

A 311 (Avengers Island destroyed) -> CA 365 (Namor in coma) -> CA 367 (Namor revived) -> Atlantis Attacks (Namor “dies” at start, alive at end, Avengers Island intact throughout) -> the rest of Acts of Vengeance (Avengers Island still at the bottom of the Atlantic)

OK, that clearly can’t work either.

Atlantis Attacks REALLY seems like it should happen entirely before Acts of Vengeance, doesn’t it? Namor-plus-Storm-plus-Avengers Island certainly points in that direction at least. So what’s the hold up?

NEW MUTANTS ANNUAL #5, that’s what the hold up is.

Let’s say we ignore the dialogue in NM@ 5 (Ship’s missing , X-Factor’s in space, the kids just got back from Asgard, etc.) that places Atlantis Attacks between pages of New Mutants #87. Where’s Dani in NM@ 5? Who cares? What are the kids talking about? I don’t know; maybe they’re drunk.

Atlantis Attacks (Namor “dies” and comes back, Avengers Island intact, Marvel Girl and adult Storm appear) -> UX 246 (de-aged Storm) -> NM 78 ~ XF 43 (X-Factor goes into space, kids go to Asgard) -> UX 253 (Moira worried about missing kids) -> UX 255 (Destiny dies, Storm already de-aged) -> NM 86 (after NM 84, which is after ASPOT 26, so AoV) -> NM 87 (kids return from Asgard) -> NM 88 ~ XF 51 (X-Factor returns from space) -> UX 256 (more AoV)

Now that looks a lot better.

There’s a precedent for this, by the way. Tigra appears in A@ 18 at a time when she can’t; she’d been shrunk by Hank Pym at the time in Avengers West Coast. John Byrne says this can’t be Tigra, and isn’t Tigra, in the AWC 56 letters page. If we can ignore an appearance by Tigra in A@ 18 then I think we can ignore the dialogue in NM@ 5 that’s WRECKING EVERYTHING.

Thoughts?
-Daron Jensen

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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by Russ Chappell » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:08 am

We're opening this up for discussion. And while we're at it, I'm sure Col_Fury welcomes any thoughts on the identity of the mysterious stranger who provides information to the High Evoutionary in the backups of the Evolutionary War annuals.

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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by JephYork » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:25 am

The Handbooks established that the mysterious character was Phaeder, an Inhuman.

Also: Storm was captured and de-aged in UXM #248. Not "#246-248."

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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by Michael » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:59 pm

There's a small problem with moving Atlantis Attacks before NM 78 and XF 43- Doctor Strange. X-Factor has believed Strange to be dead since 1987 as a result of events in Gillis's Dr. Strange run. During Atlantis Attacks, Strange decides to reveal that he's alive to Beast and Jean. Yet, when the New Mutants approach Strange for help in NM77-78, Wong tells them that Strange is dead and Strange is careful to avoid letting them know he's alive. Admittedly, this can be explained by saying that Strange trusted Beast and Jean more than the kids for whatever reason.

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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by Frans » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:20 pm

I've just reread the Annual of New Mutants. It's a bit much too ignore all dialogue. The whole issue their conversations are about finding Ship and X-Factor. They also mention it's great to be back on Earth. And sad to having left one of their team members, Mirage, back in Asgard. Also they wonder what happened to Skids and Rusty Collins who they left surrounded by Freedom Force when they were for Asgard. There's also a flashback to when the New Mutants found the same horn and Namor helped them, which was New Mutants #76. Since NM #77 is directly continued in #78 (in 77 Mirage is already in flames as a result of Hela's magic), we would have the NM #76 Namor story of the horn immediately followed by the Atlantis Attacks NM story, which is a little odd at least.

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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by Col_Fury » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:58 pm

Russ Chappell wrote:And while we're at it, I'm sure Col_Fury welcomes any thoughts on the identity of the mysterious stranger who provides information to the High Evoutionary in the backups of the Evolutionary War annuals.
JephYork wrote:The Handbooks established that the mysterious character was Phaeder, an Inhuman.
Yay! Which Handbook revealed that?
JephYork wrote:Storm was captured and de-aged in UXM #248. Not "#246-248."
Are you suggesting we place the Annuals between UX 247-248? That won't work because Rogue goes through the Siege Perilous in UX 247 and doesn't reappear until UX 269; Rogue appears in Atlantis Attacks.
Michael wrote:this can be explained by saying that Strange trusted Beast and Jean more than the kids for whatever reason.
Yes. I like this.
Frans wrote:The whole issue their conversations are about finding Ship and X-Factor. They also mention it's great to be back on Earth. And sad to having left one of their team members, Mirage, back in Asgard. Also they wonder what happened to Skids and Rusty Collins who they left surrounded by Freedom Force when they were for Asgard. There's also a flashback to when the New Mutants found the same horn and Namor helped them, which was New Mutants #76. Since NM #77 is directly continued in #78 (in 77 Mirage is already in flames as a result of Hela's magic), we would have the NM #76 Namor story of the horn immediately followed by the Atlantis Attacks NM story
I'm not saying this is a perfect solution. Obviously it's not. But given everything I laid out above, NM@ 5 seems to be the weakest link.

I'll re-read NM 76 and see how it leads in to NM 77. Thanks!

Anyone else have any thoughts about this?
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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by metaldragon » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:05 am

The New Mutants issues have 2 separate storylines going at the same time. The main group go to Asgard. Rusty & Skids are trapped on earth by Freedom Force. Rusty & Skids are involved in the Acts of Vengeance, the rest of the New Mutants are not. There are at least 4 different times we have gone over this. Here is the earliest previous thread not in the archives: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4435

Here is the breakdown of the X-books involved:
Inferno conclusion:
UX 243-XF 39, NM 74

UX 244 (- 245?)

UXM@ 13 [Atlantis Attacks Chapter 3]

NM 75 [New Mutants return to Xavier’s to see it in ruins, argue with Magneto.]

XCAL 8 [New Mutants argue with Shadowcat. Phoenix sees Marvel Girl & baby “Nathan Christopher” aboard Ship.]

XF@ 4/3 [“Inferno Aftermath” X-Factor gets ready for Madelyne’s funeral (in XF 40).]

XF 40 [X-Factor attend Madelyne’s funeral, Nanny & Orphan Maker attack, X-Factor fights them off, recover Jean’s neice & nephew, Freedom Force takes mutant babies kidnapped during Inferno by goblins.]

NM 76 [X-terminators discover Namor’s horn from FF 4 while diving below Ship in the Atlantic Ocean. It summons a giant octopus monster which drags Ship underwater when Boom Boom blows it. The New Mutants return from New York and join them. Namor arrives to help fight monster. X-Factor returns from taking Jean’s family home (from end of XF 40).]

NM@ 5-FB pp 2-4, [“Weeks ago” flashback. Ghaur sees events of MN 76 & comments that Atuma’s attack on New York (in A@ 18 “Atlantis Attacks Chapter 8”?) takes place just before this story.]

(UX 245? Any other X-Men appearances?)

(gap of time) [XF 47-FB Angel story probably goes here. Beast appears in some M/CP stories and possibly Avengers 305 here? or does it belong in the NM 88 gap with Atlantis Attacks & Acts of Vengeance?]

XF 41 [A troll stalks a mutant kid in England. Dani has headache and feels hot (first signs of Hela’s spell on the Valkyries). The New Mutants decide to return Illyana to her parents and X-Factor heads to England to find kidnapped kid. They discover trolls really do exist!]

NM 77 pp 1-3 [New Mutants return Illyana to her parents in Siberia, Dani & Brightwind collapse from Hela’s spell.]
NM 77 pp 4-30 [“Many hours and time zones later...” New Mutants arrive in New York and Ship tells them X-Factor is still in England (XF 41-42). Ship examines Dani, prognosis: sorcery. Ship directs them Dr. Strange’s mansion where Dani & Brightwind burst into flame and attack the New Mutants. Dr. Strange convinces Dani to fight back and she manages to overcomes the spell just long enough to create an ice machine which freezes her and Brightwind.]

XF 42 [X-Factor frees Alchemy from Trolls. (Takes place same time as NM 77-78.)]

M/CP 17-24 [“Cyclops: Retribution” story possibly takes place here while X-Factor is in England right after the end of XF 42. Cyclops with Banshee & Callisto fights Master Mold on Muir Island while Moira tries to cure a virus that targets mutants that she created while under Master Mold’s influence. (During NM 77-78)]

(X-Factor returns to Ship (from England) here BTS sometime during NM 77-78.)

NM 78 pp 1-8 [New Mutants figure out how to transport frozen Dani & Brightwind back to Ship from Dr. Strange’s house. Freedom Force tracks them down with intent to arrest Rusty. New Mutants fight Freedom Force on Liberty Island. Skids stays and shields Rusy while rest of New Mutants try to reach Ship with Dani. Ship announces to X-Factor it cannot control itself and is launching into space. Avalanche destroys the ice machine, Dani is released, Dr. Strange teleports her & rest of the New Mutants to Asgard.]

XF 43-46 [“Judgment War” Ship suddenly launches into space to the surprise of X-Factor and arrives on alien planet about to be judged by the Celestials.]

NM 79-80 [New Mutants in Asgard.]

NM 80 pp 8-9 [Rusty & Skids taken from Liberty Island by Freedom Force late at night.]

XF 47 [“Judgment War” interlude framing story of Archangel having a flashback while imprisoned on the alien planet.]

NM 81 [Magma & Empath "interlude" framing story.]

NM 82 p20 [“Hours later” Rusty & Skids are shown in prison surrounded by Mystique, Blob, & Pyro who try to convince them to give up. Skids finally collapses from lack of rest & food.]

NM 82- 86 [New Mutants in Asgard (still).]

UX 246-247 [X-Men fight Master Mold, finally opening the Siege Perilous to be rid of it but it drags Rogue in with it.]

XF 48-50 [“Judgment War” concluding issues. X-Factor heads back to Earth and passes Starjammers in space.]

NM 87 pp 8-11 [New Mutants in Asgard, Dani stays.]
NM 87 pp 15-16 [New Mutants leave Asgard and enter dimension of the Mindless Ones.]
NM 87 pp 19-20 [New Mutants fight Mindless Ones.]
NM 87 p 27 [New Mutants arrive on Earth above ocean near Statue of Liberty.]

NM@ 5 [Atlantis Attacks Chapter 9.]

NM 87 p 31 [New Mutants spot Ship about to land and think it’s crashing.]

XF 51 pp 1-3 [Sabretooth attacks Morlocks.]
XF 51 pp 4-6 [Mole tries to escape Sabretooth.]
XF 51 pp 8-11 [X-Factor return to Earth. Ships lands on old X-Factor building site and transforms.]
XF 51 p 13 [Ship’s landing shakes the ground & casts it’s shadow over Acme Records where Opal works. She meets Mole in the basement.]
XF 51 pp 16-17 [Opal talks with Mole.]
XF 51 pp 18-20 [X-Factor deal with helicopters crashing.]
XF 51 pp 22-24 [Opal lets Mole stay and covers for him with her boss.]
XF 51 pp 25-27 [X-Factor talk to reporters and Archangel flies off while Sabretooth spots him and chooses him as his next victim.]

NM 88 pp 7-9 [New Mutants see Archangel fly off, they re-unite with rest of X-Factor & tell them about Asgard, Atlantis Attacks and mention Rusty & Skids.]

Atlantis Attacks conclusion:
XF@ 4 ["Chapter 10" Marvel Girl is kidnapped by Ghaur with Beast hanging on.]
(Storm captured BTS by Ghaur sometime shortly before UX 248, probably in similar way to Marvel Girl)
AWC@ 4 ["Chapter 12" Marvel Girl & Storm are Brides of Set]
T@ 14 ["Chapter 13" Marvel Girl & Storm are Brides of Set]
FF@ 22 ["Chapter 14" Marvel Girl & Storm are Brides of Set]

UX 248 [X-Men fight Nanny & Orphan Maker, Storm is turned into a pre-teen by Nanny.]

UX 249-255 [Events which end in Destiny & Stonewall’s deaths.]

(A whole bunch of “meanwhile” captions, which are the ONLY thing linking them to the other storyline, are ignored in the following New Mutant segments:)

NM 83 pp 20-22 [Rusty reads newspaper article about some events in the Vault (footnote: Avengers Spotlight 25). The Vulture is in the cell next to him, sees article about Nitro and announces his plot to free Nitro.]

Acts of Vengeance:
NM 84 pp 11-13 [Vulture gets package with a pair of wings and bomb. Recognizes the Tinker’s work based on his designs and vows revenge. Rusty tries to stop him escaping and gets dragged along when Vulture flies out of prison through hole created by Tinker’s bomb.]

NM 85 pp 22-24 [Vulture dumps Rusty on the ground. Rusty frees Skids to help follow & stop the Vulture.]

NM 86 pp 1-3 [Vulture confronts Tinker. Tinker tells Vulture he got wing designs from man on computer monitor (Loki in disguise) with instructions to attack Speedball...! Vulture changes plans to release Nitro.]
NM 86 pp 4-6 [Rusty & Skids steal van from prison yard and smash their way out. They head for courthouse in Albany where Nitro is on trial.]
(There may be a gap of a few hours here for Rusty & Skids to get from the “maximum security federal prison” (near Washington, DC?) to the Albany courthouse and for the Vulture & Tinker to come up with a plan to free Nitro.)
NM 86 pp 8-20 [Vulture smashes through courthouse skylight and flies Nitro’s canister to roof. Rusty & Skids arrive in damaged van. Vulture forces Tinker to open hole in Nitro’s canister. Police, Rusty & Skids climb to the roof try to stop them but Nitro frees himself from canister. Rusty grabs Vulture as he’s about to fly away and they crash back onto the roof when Rusty destroys his wings. Skids wraps her forcefield around Nitro as he explodes which disrupts his ability to reform so he’s unable to detonate again and dissipates.]
NM 86 pp 25-29 [Freedom Force and the press arrive. Blob beats on Rusty when he tries to tell the press the truth. Crimson Commando says, “Our own teammates, Destiny and Stonewall, have just fallen tragically to scum like them.” to the press to explain their use of force to arrest Rusty, Skids, Vulture and Tinker whom they claim were working together to free Nitro and resisting arrest.]
NM 86 pp 30-31 [“Elsewhere and hours later” the MLF firebomb an “energy research facility” and demand Rusty & Skids be freed or they will do worse. Cable makes his first, cameo appearance.]

Acts of Vengeance:
XF 49 p 16 [Apocalypse is observing villains on his screens and mentions Magneto, Red Skull, Kingpin, Dr. Doom, and the Wizard forming strange alliances. Also shown are the Juggernaut and possibly the Mandarin, (either Green or Hob-)goblin and... Foolkiller? He wonders if the armageddon he’s been anticipating is about to begin.]
XF 49 p 30 [Apocalypse discovers the man behind the scenes manipulating the villains. The man steps through Apocalypse’s monitors and invites him to join & lead his Acts of Vengeance.]

XF 50/2 [Apocalypse grabs the mysterious man and demands to know who he is. Loki drops his disguise and fights back. Caliban attacks Loki from the shadows and Loki fries him with a spell. Apocalypse traps Loki in a forcefield, Caliban appears unharmed by the flames. Loki smashes his way out and returns to the screens before having a final word and blowing the screens up.]


XF 51 pp 3-4 [Apocalypse & Caliban watch Sabretooth attacking Morlocks in New York from their “citadel beneath the Himalayas”.]
XF 51 pp 14-15 [Apocalypse watches Ship’s landing & transformation while Caliban runs through a training sequence.]
XF 51 pp 29-30 [Caliban escapes Apocalypse and teleports after Sabretooth.]
(It’s possible that Apocalypse is reviewing a recording of Sabretooth hunting the Morlocks and X-Factor’s return to Earth from his “citadel beneath the Himalayas” and is deliberately testing Caliban to see his reactions here.)

NM 87 pp1-6 [The MLF plants a bomb in another energy research facility in Pine Bluffs, Wyoming while Cable arrives too late to stop them.]
NM pp13-14 [Skids watches the news on the prison hospital room tv while Rusty is unconscious from head injury & drugs. Mystique enters and wants to know their connection to the MLF.]
NM 87 pp 17-18 [Stryfe sends the MLF to Washington DC to the prison Rusty & Skids are in, Cable is waiting for them.]
NM 87 pp 22-25 [Cable attacks MLF but gets paralyzed by Reaper & metal arm melted by Strobe.]
NM 87 pp 29-30 [The MLF teleport Rusty & Skids out.]
NM 87 p 31 panels 4-7 [Cable locked up in a “military complex outside of Washington”.]

NM 88 pp 1-6 panels 1-3 [Blob, Pyro & Crimson Commando question Cable about his connection to the MLF. Mystique tells them that X-Factor’s ship has “just landed” in New York.]
NM 88 p 9 panels 3-4, p 11-13 panel 1 [Cable fakes being sick, takes out guards, escapes cell.]
NM 88 pp 13-14 [New Mutants & X-Factor watch recording of Rusty & Skids arrest & Stryfe’s demands. They call Washington and a receptionist informs them Freedom Force is in a meeting.]
NM 88 pp 15-18 [Cable ambushes Freedom Force when they come out of their meeting, takes out Pyro and smashes through a window to escape.]
NM 88 pp 19-22 [Sam and Roberto phone home.]
NM 88 pp 24-25 [Cable lays a trap for Super Sabre which Blob spots just in time but it delays them long enough for Cable to steal a helicopter.]
NM 88 pp 27-29 [Wolfsbane talks to (a Shadow King possessed) Moira McTaggert who informs her she’ll be coming to take her back to Muir Island.]
NM 88 p 30 [Cable escapes in chopper while Mystique, Blob and Crimson Commando plan to recapture him.]

NM 89 [Cable flies copter from Washington, DC to New York before getting shot down by Freedom Force who’s chopper he takes out in return. Boom Boom, Cannonball & Sunspot run into Cable being chased down by Freedom Force. Moira McTaggert arrives on Ship to take Wolfsbane back to Muir Island, Rictor & Warlock try to stop her. The rest of the New Mutants show up with Cable and he convinces Moira to leave without Wolfsbane, for some reason Legion, over Ship’s video link to Muir Island, agrees.]

XF 52 [Sabretooth attacks Archangel which begins Ravens storyline.]

Hopefully this makes sense! NM 88 is still a mess but that's as close to getting all the references to line up as far as I'm able. If you guys could flesh out the X-Men issues and any Avengers, Freedom Force, Nanny & Orphan Maker storylines that crossover here that would be awesome.
Last edited by metaldragon on Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:41 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by metaldragon » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:19 am

The only way to place Atlantis Attacks anywhere else in the New Mutants and X-Factor's chronologies is to completely ignore these specific references:

NM 87, p27 [The dimensional warp opens over the spot where Dr. Strange teleported them to Asgard.]
(someone, either Rictor or Sunspot:) "The Statue of Liberty! We're Home! Rusty and Skids aren't there! Figures, we've been away for weeks."
Boom Boom: "Sure! They're gone, they've escaped!"
Rictor: "Yea, man, I'd have liked to see it! Bet they gave Freedom Force a run for their money."
Sunspot: "X-Factor will know what's happened to them... if they've returned from wherever it was they went."* (*See X-Factor #44-50--Bob)
Warlock: "Selfriends, X-Factor's Ship is still missing."
Sunspot: "What now?"
(they talk some more about keeping Xavier's dream alive)
[Warlock lands on the water]

NM@ 5, pp 6-9 [New Mutants are flying over ocean.]
Cannonball: "Sure is great ta be back on Earth again... even if we can't find our Ship!"
Sunspot: "It used to hover around here... didn't it, Warlock?"
Warlock: "Indeed, FriendBobby, but Self registers no sign of it, now, at all!
Cannonball: "Maybe you oughta land, Lock. You can use the rest... an' ah don't mind searching' solo for a while..."
Warlock: "Thank you SelfriendSam. Water is gloriously cooling.
Sunspot: "I hate to be the one to say it, guys, but what if the Ship... and X-Factor on it... are still away in space...? What if they never return?"
Boom Boom: "Shut up, Bobby! They have to return. We have so much to... to tell them. About Dani and Asgard... and Rusty and Skids...! X-Factor can't be--"
Rictor: "I'm sure they're fine, Boom-Boom. Ship too."
[Rictor tells Bobby off for upsetting Boom Boom, Wolfsbane goes for a swim. Rictor & Boom Boom mention MN 76. Sharks attack and Warlock continues search from the air.]
[They then get attacked by S.U.R.F., save Atlantis from another monster summoned by Ghaur with the horn from NM 76, and finally head back to the surface. A final footnote says: Ghaur and Llyra's vicious plot continues in X-Factor Annual # 4, on sale next week!]

NM 87, p 31 panels 1 & 2 [Caption: "Later, on a living float bobbing near the Statue of Liberty..."]
Boom Boom: "Look! X-Factor's Ship! It's falling out of control!
Wolfsbane: "'Tis going to crash!"
Cannonball: "Come on, Warlock! Somethin' terrible's about ta happen."
Warlock: "Self will hurry, selfriends. we will save whom we can!"
[Next issue: The New Mutants rejoin X-Factor--]

NM 88 p 6, panel 4 ["Meanwhile, in Manhattan..." we see Ship has safely landed and transformed with giant "X" as seen in XF 51 and the New Mutants are flying towards it.]
Boom Boom: "Isn't this fantastic!"
Rictor: "The Ship is back! X-Factor's home!"
p 8 [They spot Archangel flying away from reporters as seen in XF 51. They drop down in front of reporters]
Rictor: "Jean! Scott! You're home! Where have you been?!?
p 9, panels 1-2 "And in a rush of explanation..." [There are no backgrounds drawn in so they may have hurried the kids inside away from the reporters.]
Wolfsbane: "... and so we left Asgard and came home and fought with some Atlanteans underwater and..."
[other greetings]
Cyclops: "But... where's Dani, Bobby?"
Sunspot: "She decided to stay in Asgard, Scott. It's a long story. We'll tell you later. When we were snatched into Asgard, Rusty and Skids were left behind on Liberty Island, surrounded by Freedom Force. We were hoping maybe they'd be here with you!"

It's very clear what the order of events are here. This point would be the soonest spot for Marvel Girl to get kidnapped by Ghaur (with Beast clinging to her) as seen on the opening page of XF@ 4.
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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by metaldragon » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:58 am

It's possible that Ship took off again when Marvel Girl gets kidnapped (with Beast clinging to her) by Ghaur as shown in XF@ 4. Then Ship & the rest of X-Factor, along with the New Mutants, got caught up BTS in the chaos of Atlantis Attacks & Acts of Vengeance and didn't re-land until before Freedom Force mentions they've "just landed" to Cable in NM 88. That's the only way this whole mess works as written.
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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by metaldragon » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:12 am

Here is yet another discussion thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5851
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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by metaldragon » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:16 am

Condensed footnote touchstones:

One of the contradictions to your idea for X-Factor & The New Mutants (and Wolverine?) is Uncanny X-Men. If you look at the X-Men, the last possible place where all of the X-Men as that line-up can appear in UX@ 13 (Atlantis Attacks chapter 3) is before UX 246 because during UX 246-247, they fight Master Mold and Rogue gets sucked into the Siege Perilous. Then, the very last point Storm can appear in Atlantis Attacks chapters 12-14 is before UX 248 where she is turned into a kid by Nanny.

The New Mutants in Asgard storyline goes from NM 78-87. (Rusty & Skids stuck on Earth, the rest of the team stuck in Asgard. No crossover between the 2 stories.) The X-Factor in space "Judgment War" storyline goes from XF 43-51 (continuous story, no chance for them to return to Earth). NM 78 & XF 43 show the same events (Ship launching into space). NM 87/XF 51/NM 88 show the same events (Ship returning from space, X-Factor & New Mutants reunited). Atlantis Attacks chapter 9 (NM@ 5) takes place during the last few pages of NM 87 (dialogue, art & team members involved place it there). That means the earliest spot for Atlantis Attacks chapters 10-14 can take place for Beast, Jean (and Storm) is during NM 88.

NM 84 (Rusty & Skids storyline only) takes place after the Vault breakout in Avengers Spotlight 26 which begins the Acts of Vengeance crossover. A footnote and a newspaper article Vulture reads and talks about places it there.

UX 255 is the issue Destiny & Stonewall die. Most of the X-Men team last seen in UX 247 has gone through the Siege Perilous before this.

NM 86 (Rusty & Skids storyline only) takes place after UX 255 because Freedom Force appear & announce to the media that their teammates have just died. This is the conclusion of the Rusty & Skids vs Vulture, Tinker & Nitro Acts of Vengeance storyline where they're all arrested by Freedom Force.

UX 256-258 are the Acts of Vengeance issues with the Mandarin, Psylocke & Wolverine. This around the same time (roughly, give or take) as A 312 where Freedom Force fights the Avengers because they're grieving for their murdered teammates.
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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by metaldragon » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:30 am

Col_Fury wrote:
Russ Chappell wrote:And while we're at it, I'm sure Col_Fury welcomes any thoughts on the identity of the mysterious stranger who provides information to the High Evoutionary in the backups of the Evolutionary War annuals.
JephYork wrote:The Handbooks established that the mysterious character was Phaeder, an Inhuman.
Yay! Which Handbook revealed that?
JephYork wrote:Storm was captured and de-aged in UXM #248. Not "#246-248."
Are you suggesting we place the Annuals between UX 247-248? That won't work because Rogue goes through the Siege Perilous in UX 247 and doesn't reappear until UX 269; Rogue appears in Atlantis Attacks.
Michael wrote:this can be explained by saying that Strange trusted Beast and Jean more than the kids for whatever reason.
Yes. I like this.
Frans wrote:The whole issue their conversations are about finding Ship and X-Factor. They also mention it's great to be back on Earth. And sad to having left one of their team members, Mirage, back in Asgard. Also they wonder what happened to Skids and Rusty Collins who they left surrounded by Freedom Force when they were for Asgard. There's also a flashback to when the New Mutants found the same horn and Namor helped them, which was New Mutants #76. Since NM #77 is directly continued in #78 (in 77 Mirage is already in flames as a result of Hela's magic), we would have the NM #76 Namor story of the horn immediately followed by the Atlantis Attacks NM story
I'm not saying this is a perfect solution. Obviously it's not. But given everything I laid out above, NM@ 5 seems to be the weakest link.

I'll re-read NM 76 and see how it leads in to NM 77. Thanks!

Anyone else have any thoughts about this?
The complete team including Rogue appears in the UX@ 13 which means it must go before UX 246. Storm appears alone in AWC@ 4/T@ 14/FF@ 22 without any of the other X-Men so it's possible she could be appearing there between UX 247 & 248 as there is a gap of time between Chapter 3 and Chapter 12 of Atlantis Attacks where the UX 246-247 Master Mold story could go.
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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by Col_Fury » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:34 pm

Basically, here’s you order of events:

Atlantis Attacks starts
(parts of) New Mutants 78-87
Atlantis Attacks continues
(parts of) New Mutants 88
(parts of) X-Factor 51
Atlantis Attacks ends
Acts of Vengeances starts
Uncanny X-Men 248-255 (involving AoV)
(parts of) New Mutants 79-88 (involving AoV)
(parts of) X-Factor 49-51 (involving AoV)
(parts of) New Mutants 88
Acts of Vengeances ends
metaldragon wrote:That's the only way this whole mess works as written.
Well, no it’s not.

Atlantis Attacks started coming out in April of 1989 and Acts of Vengeance started coming out in October of 1989 (indicia date December). That’s a six month difference. Silver Surfer Annual #2 (Atlantis Attacks Chapter 1) came out the same month as A 306, CA 356, NM 78 & UX 247. There’s even a house ad for Atlantis Attacks in NM 77!

As written for the Avengers, Atlantis Attacks ends (Avengers Island intact) before Acts of Vengeance starts (Avengers Island destroyed).

As written for the X-Men, Atlantis Attacks ends (adult Storm appears) before Acts of Vengeance starts (child Storm appears).

As written for X-Factor, Acts of Vengeance happens while X-Factor is out in space.

As written for New Mutants, Acts of Vengeance happens while half the kids are in Asgard.

As written for New Mutants Annual #5, Atlantis Attacks happens after the kids are in Asgard (Acts of Vengeance).

New Mutants Annual #5 is the odd man out. Pretty much everything else in the Marvel Universe says that Atlantis Attacks happens before Acts of Vengeance starts, including publication order. New Mutants Annual #5 got it wrong. By six months!

Re: NM@ 5
metaldragon wrote:It's very clear what the order of events are here.
Yes, that’s what NM@ 5 says. But given the rest of the Marvel Universe, it’s also very clear that it’s a mistake.

In your proposal we’d have to ignore publication order AND ignore the order of events as presented (as written) in both New Mutants 78-88 and X-Factor 49-51. Meaning, we'd have to split up and rearrange the pages of different subplots.

In my proposal we’d only have to ignore the dialogue that places NM@ 5 between pages of NM 87. Publication order stays the same, the order of events as presented within each issue of New Mutants and X-Factor stays the same.

If I have a choice, I'd rather ignore one thing than ignore many things. What do others think?
Col_Fury wrote:I'll re-read NM 76 and see how it leads in to NM 77. Thanks!
NM 76 ends the adventure with Namor and the kids wonder what they’ll do with the de-aged Illyana.

NM 77 starts with the kids returning Illyana to her parents in Russia. There’s no solid mention of how long it’s been since NM 76. It’s implied to be a short while ago, sure, but nothing implicitly states a time frame. It could have taken the kids a while to decide that Russia is the best place for her. They had to take some time to decide, because the kids appear in at least XF 41 between NM 76-77.

Thoughts?
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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by metaldragon » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:43 pm

The original authors' intent for both X-Factor and the New Mutants were to have epic storylines where the main team went out in space/Asgard and when they returned, they would participate in Atlantis Attacks. It just so happened that the last 3rd of their long storylines occurred at the same time as the Acts of Vengeance crossover. Instead of delaying any Acts of Vengeance stuff until those two teams returned to Earth (which would have been about 2-3 issues after Acts of Vengeance), they decided to write secondary stories that tied in with the crossover that was happening at that time. And that messed things up.

The way I've separated the stories makes sense. X-Factor does not interact with Caliban until after Acts of Vengeance. Only Rusty & Skids interact with Acts of Vengeance. Rusty, Skids & Dani do not appear in Atlantis Attacks because of the specific events that took place in the New Mutants books. As much as you might hate my breakdown, that is the only way it can work as the dialogue written.

Again, what trumps the other? Is it dialogue as written or captions that say "meanwhile" and "*See what they are doing over here?" captions?
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Re: ATLANTIS ATTACKS!

Post by metaldragon » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:58 pm

I'm sure if you were to ask Louise Simonson what happened there, she'd probably tell you that she had the two long storylines plotted out and ready to go and then Marvel told her that X-Factor and The New Mutants had to participate in Atlantis Attacks and Acts of Vengeance. I'm sure she thought she'd be able to have her characters appear there after her story arcs were done. Marvel probably told her she had to write something in those issues that were being published during Acts of Vengeance that tied into the crossover. Hence the secondary, unrelated stories with Skids & Rusty and Apocalypse & Caliban that had nothing to do with her main stories that were still ongoing. How do you explain that one of two sets of events happens after the other in this situation? Almost impossible with the comic book format. Her epic storylines ended the same months as Acts of Vengeance did creating the mess we got.
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