New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

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New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

Post by Somebody » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:03 pm

NM2 11 is mostly flashback, interlaced with a page or two of Laurie's life, followed by a page or two of Rahne's and so forth. And I don't have NM1, apart from M/GN 4 and a few X-over issues, so as I said, I need help with the following unplaced panels:

(11:4): Original New Mutants in their early days, pre-NM 8, outdoors (Cannonball, Sunspot, Karma, Psyche, Wolfsbane; Dani has arm around Rahne, is wearing her custom belt, feet not seen)
(13:1): Slightly older New Mutants, expanded group, still basically in their original costumes (Magik with metal arm, Sunspot, Cypher, Cannonball, Mirage, Wolfsbane, Karma, Magma. Dani's wearing her belt, as well as fully "fringed" brown boots rather than ones with just a couple of tassles; Magma is "flamed on"])
(13:2): Rahne looks puppy-dog eyed at Sam, crushing. May follow directly from (13:1).
(13:3): Rahne and Doug hug. [Narration says it's when she's crushing on Doug, can't follow straight from (13:2)].
(13:4): At a gravestone (implicitly, Doug's)
(13:5): Jumping in half-wolf form, barefoot - black arms/legs with yellow gloves, torso blocked from view. Given that the narration says "Through it all, she tried to learn how to control the animal within her.", this is some time during (13:1-13:4).

Right, if you're reading this in Lynx (or the archive), one asterisk is "edit", two is "add", three is "delete". Can't be bothered adding (add) to every one, especially given the notes!

WOLFSBANE/RAHNE SINCLAIR
*NM2 11 (5)-FB (infant, then young girl under Rev. Craig's "care")
C2 -1 (Cable #-1 is anomolous in showing Rahne living with Moira as a child - both CX 2 and NM2 11 show her as living with Rev. Craig right up until her powers emerge, and the dialogue in M/GN 4 is in line with the latter.)
***UX 94-BTS [DELETE]
CX 2 (11)-FB
**NM2 11 (7)-FB (first transformation to wolf form)
**NM2 11 (9)-FB (dicovered by Rev. Craig, leads angry mob after her)
*{M/GN 4 (1-3:1)} (chased past Moira, reverts to human)
**NM2 11 (11:1)-FB (Moira covers her with her coat)
**M/GN 4 (3:2-3:5) (Rev. Craig & co catch up after Moira's covered Rahne, are told to sod off by Moira, who decides to take her to Xavier)
**NM2 11 (11:2-11:3)-FB (Moira hugs her, they meet Prof X in front of the school)
**M/GN 4 (4-47) (Rahne doesn't appear in (4-14). (15) is a "week" after NM2 11 (11:3), continuing from there)
NM 1
[...]
[NM ??]
**NM2 11 (11:4)-FB (see above)
[NM ??]
[...]
[NM ??]
**NM2 11 (13:1-13:2)-FB (see above)
[NM ??]
[...]
[NM ??]
**NM2 11 (13:3)-FB (see above)
[NM ??]
[...]
[NM ??]
**NM2 11 (13:5)-FB (see above)
[NM ??]
[...]
[NM ??]
**NM2 11 (13:4)-FB (see above)
[NM ??]
[...]
[NM ??]
NM 96
**NM2 11 (15:1)-FB (Rahne being transformed into mutate)
XF 61
[...]
XF 87
**NM2 11 (15:2-15:4)-FB (With X-Factor, stuck in half-wolf form, Rahne spies Havok and Polaris - the latter in her red/yellow XF 87-92 costume - dancing and runs away)
XF 88
[...]
XCAL 92
**NM2 11 (17:1)-FB (Back in human form, with long hair. (17:2) is skipped because it's too far awry to place)
XCAL 93
[...]
UX 388
*BSHP2 16 (1-12:1) (Mystique zaps her with the neutraliser)
**NM2 11 (17:3)-FB (human head here, wolf head in the zapping panel of the original issue, so this is later in the transition)
**BSHP2 16 (12:2-21) (she's unconscious the rest of the issue, even when Mystique holds her by the neck)
**NM2 11 (17:4)-FB (reacting when she realises she's been depowered)
X 108 (opens on the flight to try and get Moira treatment, with her already conscious and praying Moira won't die)
**NM2 11 (17:5)-FB (sitting over Moira's dead body)
UX 389-FB
[...]
UX 426
*NM2 11 (19:1-19:2)-FB (biking across USA, getting into fights)
*NM2 9 (1-17:4)
**NM2 11 (20:4)-FB (Laurie looks down the corridor at her & Josh)
**NM2 9 (17:5-20)
*NM2 10 (1-15:2)
**NM2 11 (19:3)-FB (mid-argument with Dani)
**NM2 10 (15:3-22:4) (pg22 is her kissing Josh, realising he's healing her, up to her with head on the left)
**NM2 11 (19:4)-FB (healing reaching her upper body, head on right)
**NM2 10 (22:5) (head on right, her transformation kicking in)
**NM2 11 (19:5)-FB (slashes into him)
**NM2 10 (22:6-23) (he begins to fall down, ends on ground with her howling over him)
NM2 11
[...]

COLLINS, GAIL
*NM2 11 (2)-FB (controlled pheremonically by Sean Garrison, powers stop working on her when she gets pregnant with Laurie)
**NM2 11 (6)-FB
**NM2 11 (8)-FB
**NM2 11 (10)-FB
**NM2 11 (12)-FB
{NM2 6}
[...]

WALLFLOWER/LAURIE COLLINS
*NM2 11 (6)-FB (young child Laurie being raised by Gail)
**NM2 11 (8)-FB (on holiday, her powers kick in)
**NM2 11 (10)-FB (Gail explains her powers, she gets even more insular, and causes a panic at school by infecting everyone with her own panic)
**NM2 11 (12)-FB (Move to Salem Center so Laurie can attend Xavier's and Gail can be near her, though Gail insists Laurie live at school, to little effect)
**NM2 11 (14)-FB (she drives away roommates - Angel because of her powers, Mercury because she avoided her)
**NM2 11 (16)-FB (Laurie panics that she's causing Riot at Xavier's, hides in bed)
*{NM2 2 (1-20:3)}
**NM2 11 (18:1)-FB (Sofia moving in)
**NM2 2 (20:4-22)
NM2 3
NM2 4
*NM2 5 (1-10)
*NM2 11 (18:2)-FB (eating with Sofia, Wither & Prodigy)
**NM2 5 (11-23:6) (up to getting stabbed)
**NM2 11 (18:5)-FB (aware of being stabbed)
**NM2 5 (24) (eyes rolling back)
*NM2 6 (1-3:2) (dumped to the floor)
**NM2 11 (20:1)-FB (blood pooling)
**NM2 6 (3:3-4:4) (while Kevin attacks Pearce, Josh tries healing with one hand)
**NM2 11 (20:2)-FB (both hands)
**NM2 6 (4:5-4:6) (looks up suprised at Josh)
**NM2 11 (20:3)-FB (smiles, "smitten")
**NM2 6 (5-24) (rest of issue)
NM2 7-FB
NM2 7
NM2 8
*NM2 9 (1-17:4) (with Sofia, follows Rahne, Josh and David down a corridor)
**NM2 11 (20:4)-FB (looks round the corner sadly at Rahne and Josh, David and Sofia are OP)
**NM2 9 (17:5-20) (looking for Surge)
NM2 10
NM2 11
[...]

CRAIG, REV.
*NM2 11 (4-5)-FB
C2 -1
***{UX 94-BTS} [DELETE]
CX 2 (11)
*XCAL 107 (10:3)-FB (also appears in (10:4), which is a rfb to M/GN 4)
**NM2 11 (9)-FB
*{M/GN 4}
[...]

MACTAGGERT, MOIRA KINROSS
[...]
***UX 94-BTS [DELETE]
[...]
UX 165
*M/GN 4 (1-3:1)
**NM2 11 (11:1)-FB
**M/GN 4 (3:2-3:5)
**NM2 11 (11:2-11:3)-FB
**M/GN 4 (15-47)
NM 1
[...]
X 108
**NM2 11 (17:5)-FB
UX 389 (4)-FB
[...]

PROFESSOR X/CHARLES FRANCIS XAVIER
[...]
UX 165
**NM2 11 (11:2-11:3)-FB
M/GN 4
[...]
X 127
[X 223-FB]
*NM2 11 (12)-FB
X 128

HAVOK/ALEX SUMMERS
[...]
XF 87
**NM2 11 (15:2-15:4)-FB
XF 88
[...]

POLARIS/LORNA DANE
[...]
XF 87
**NM2 11 (15:2-15:4)-FB
XF 88
[...]

MYSTIQUE/RAVEN DARKHOLME/"RAVEN WAGNER"/"MALLORY BRICKMAN"/"B. BYRON BIGGS"/"RONNIE LAKE"/"DALE FYFE"
[...]
UX 388
**BSHP2 16 (1-12:1)-OP
**NM2 11 (17:3)-FB
*BSHP2 16 (12:2-21)
X 108
[...]

MOONSTAR/DANIELLE MOONSTAR
[...]
NM2 9
*NM2 10 (1-15:2)
**NM2 11 (19:3)-FB
**NM2 10 (15:3-22:1)
NM2 12
[...]

ELIXIR/JOSH FOLEY
NM2 5
*NM2 6 (1-4:4)
**NM2 11 (20:2)-FB
**NM2 6 (4:5-4:6)
**NM2 11 (20:3)-FB
**NM2 6 (5-24)
NM2 7-FB
NM2 7
NM2 8
*NM2 9 (1-17:4)
**NM2 11 (20:4)-FB
**NM2 9 (17:5-20)
*NM2 10 (1-22:4)
**NM2 11 (19:4)-FB
**NM2 10 (22:5)
**NM2 11 (19:5)-FB
**NM2 10 (22:6-23)
NM2 11
[...]

WIND DANCER/SOFIA MANTEGA
NM2 1
*NM2 2 (1-20:3)
**NM2 11 (18:1)-FB
**NM2 2 (20:4-22)
NM2 3
NM2 4
*NM2 5 (1-10)
**NM2 11 (18:2)-FB
**NM2 5 (11-24)
NM2 6
[...]
NM2 8
*NM2 9 (1-17:4)
**NM2 11 (20:4)-FB-OP
**NM2 9 (17:5-20)
NM2 10
[...]

PRODIGY IV/DAVID ALLEYNE
NM2 4
*NM2 5 (1-10)
**NM2 11 (18:2)-FB
**NM2 5 (11-24)
NM2 6
[...]
NM2 8
*NM2 9 (1-17:4)
**NM2 11 (20:4)-FB-OP
**NM2 9 (17:5-20)
NM2 10
[...]

WITHER/KEVIN FORD
[...]
NM2 4
*NM2 5 (1-10)
**NM2 11 (18:2)-FB
**NM2 5 (11-24)
NM2 6
[...]

WHITE BISHOP/DONALD PIERCE
[...]
XX '01
*NM2 5 (1-23:6)
**NM2 11 (18:5)-FB
**NM2 5 (24)
*NM2 6 (1-3:2)
**NM2 11 (20:1)-FB
**NM2 6 (3:3-24)
NM2 13
[...]

TEMPEST III/ANGEL SALVATORE (one for Fury to go through on his quest to split all these - she doesn't take that codename until she's depowered post-M-Day and appearing in NW4!)
[...]
X 131
*NM2 11 (14)-FB
X 135
[...]

MERCURY IV/CESSILY KINCAID
*NM2 11 (12)-FB
**NM2 11 (14)-FB
{NM2 2}
[...]

SPECTER/DALLAS GIBSON
**NM2 11 (12)-FB
*{NM2 10}
[...]

GLOB HERMAN/ROBERT HERMAN
[??]
**NM2 11 (16)-FB (during Riot at Xavier's, Laurie sees him amongst a group from her window. Don't have the arc to place.)
[??]

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Re: New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

Post by metaldragon » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:42 am

Rahne visiting Doug's grave may be from NM@ 6/2 where she's shown visiting him there?

The original team would have to be before NM 6 when Karma disappears.

The "expanded group" with Karma would be sometime between UX@ 9 & NM 54.
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Re: New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

Post by Somebody » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:23 pm

metaldragon wrote:Rahne visiting Doug's grave may be from NM@ 6/2 where she's shown visiting him there?

The original team would have to be before NM 6 when Karma disappears.

The "expanded group" with Karma would be sometime between UX@ 9 & NM 54.
What about Rahne showing a (passing?) crush on Cannonball or Cypher?

Is there a convenient spot (preferably between issues, for simplicity) in the NM 1-6 period where the team could be posed for a photo-type lineup, in costume? Bearing the same thing, any spots with Dani in the right boots for the larger roster - Warlock being missing isn't essential, since they're lined up he could be taking the photo or something!, but it would help. In either case, any spot where they have their costumes but aren't in the middle of a cliffhanger, or some member of the team having an existential crisis should do.

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Re: New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

Post by Frans » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:42 pm

Somebody wrote:Is there a convenient spot (preferably between issues, for simplicity) in the NM 1-6 period where the team could be posed for a photo-type lineup, in costume?
Preferably between issues there are a number of spots. And there are definite no's as well between issues.
The no's are:
Between NM5 and NM6 because Dani has been kidnapped by Silver Samurai and Viper.
Between NM3 and UXM167 because they are watching Magnum on TV, see a falling star (which in fact are the X-Men returning from space), return watching TV and the X-Men fall in to capture Professor X (Brood Queen).
Between NM1 and NM2 because Dani is attacked by Brood Queen (Professor X) outside the Danger Room. She wakes up inside the Danger Room in NM2.

Possible placements are:
Between M/GN 4 and NM1 forming of the team and the initiation into the Xavier school. (in photo Dani and Wolfsbane are quite familiar with each other so it better happen maybe be further down the line than the absolute beginning)
Between NM2 and NM3 Dani's fight in the Danger Room and Dani possessed by the Brood Queen and forming a whole new world in all their heads. (A lot happens with Dani in all these issues, at the start of NM3 she wakes up screaming having nightmares after her horrors in the Danger Room. It is not likely they made a fun school picture in between)
Between UX167 and NM4 X-Men fight Xavier (Brood Queen) and Stevie Hunter scared by another student.
Between NM4 and NM5 Stevie Hunter scared by another student and start of the fight with Silver Samurai and Viper which leads to Karma's disappearance.

The most "quiet" place to put this flashback is between NM4 and NM5. But also between UX167 and NM4 would be fine.

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Re: New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

Post by Somebody » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:01 pm

In that case, would this work? Or is there a better place to put the Cannonball/Wolfsbane and Cypher/Wolfsbane panels [and possibly, by extension, the (13:1) "expanded" group shot]? I'm not entinely convinced running (13:2) and (13:3) directly together works given the narration, but without any better suggestions...

WOLFSBANE/RAHNE SINCLAIR
[...]
FS 1
**NM2 11 (11:4)-FB
NM 5
[...]
NM 51
**NM2 11 (13:1-13:3)-FB
NM@ 3
[...]
NM 76
**NM2 11 (13:4)-FB
NM 77
[...]
XCAL 8
**NM2 11 (13:5)-FB
NM 76
[...]

CANNONBALL/SAMUEL ZACHARY GUTHRIE
[...]
FS 1
**NM2 11 (11:4)-FB
NM 5
[...]
NM 51
**NM2 11 (13:1-13:2)-FB
NM@ 3
[...]

PSYCHE/DANIELLE MOONSTAR
[...]
FS 1
**NM2 11 (11:4)-FB
NM 5
[...]

MIRAGE II/DANIELLE MOONSTAR
[...]
NM 51
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM@ 3
[...]

SUNSPOT/ROBERTO DACOSTA
[...]
FS 1
**NM2 11 (11:4)-FB
NM 5
[...]
NM 51
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM@ 3
[...]

KARMA/XI'AN COY MANH
[...]
SEX /2
**NM2 11 (11:4)-FB
NM 5
[...]
NM 51
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM@ 3-BTS
[...]

CYPHER/DOUG RAMSEY
[...]
NM 51
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
**NM2 11 (13:3)-FB
NM@ 3
[...]
NM 61
**NM2 11 (13:5)-FB
NM@ 6/2
[...]

MAGIK/ILLYANA RASPUTINA
[...]
NM 51
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM@ 3
[...]

MAGMA/AMARA AQUILLA/ALLISON CRESTMERE
[...]
NM 51
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM@ 3-BTS
[...]

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Re: New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

Post by Frans » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:05 am

Have thought and researched about the group shot on page 13 and the following shots of Cannonball and Cypher. Indeed the shots where Wolfsbane has crushes on Cannonball and Cypher don't match closely to each other. At the start of the series she had a crush on Cannonball while she had a crush on Cypher a short while before he died.

The group shot should be somewhere around NM50. You've put it after NM51, that can work. Although I would place it after NM50, because of all the rocks Magma sprouted when she fought the Magus on that planet. It could also be normal rocks, but I was thinking this shot was taken on that planet after the fight.

A for the panel with Cypher I would place this after NM55; right before the end is a panel with "hearts" from Rahne when she looks at Doug. The panel with Cannonball I would place after NM21, when Rahne had a definite crush on Sam; she punched him in the guts when he did not recognise her after she got a make-over. But she had that crush for many issues...

Looks like the 4th panel of page 13 seems to be incorrectly placed. It should not come between NM76 and NM77. It would better suit after NM@6/2 as Metaldragon suggested or even after NM64 (before the last page).
Last edited by Somebody on Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merging posts-in-a-row

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Re: New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

Post by Somebody » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:20 pm

Frans wrote:Have thought and researched about the group shot on page 13 and the following shots of Cannonball and Cypher. Indeed the shots where Wolfsbane has crushes on Cannonball and Cypher don't match closely to each other.
Didn't really expect them to. I was hoping to prod someone to action :)
Frans wrote:At the start of the series she had a crush on Cannonball...I would place [(13:2)] after NM21, when Rahne had a definite crush on Sam; she punched him in the guts when he did not recognise her after she got a make-over. But she had that crush for many issues...
So, are you saying she punched him in the guts (a) during NM 21, but the crush visibly continued thereafter; or (b) after NM 21, but it should be placed between 21 & 22 because it should be before the punching incident?
Frans wrote:...while she had a crush on Cypher a short while before he died.... I would place [(13:3)] after NM55; right before the end is a panel with "hearts" from Rahne when she looks at Doug.
Fair enough.
Frans wrote:The group shot should be somewhere around NM50. You've put it after NM51, that can work. Although I would place it after NM50, because of all the rocks Magma sprouted when she fought the Magus on that planet. It could also be normal rocks, but I was thinking this shot was taken on that planet after the fight.
Fine by me.
Frans wrote:Looks like the 4th panel of page 13 seems to be incorrectly placed. It should not come between NM76 and NM77. It would better suit after NM@6/2 as Metaldragon suggested or even after NM64 (before the last page).
The reason I didn't stick it in NM@6/2 was that (a) I found a summary suggesting that Rahne made her peace with her crush/Doug's ghost in that story and (b) a panel scan showing her in a dress while visiting the grave, rather than jeans/T-shirt, at night rather than in twilight.

And actually, that was the ghost of an old choice - I meant to have it where (13:5) is listed (I was just going to leave that out unless someone said there was a time where her original costume was still visible in wolf-mode). I've got XCAL 8, and thought she might have got Ship to teleport her to Doug's grave given how upset she was there with Shadowcat/et al. I'll put it between pages of NM 64 (page numbers?) if that fits better.

EDIT: Here's the scan, apparently from NM@ 6/2, that suggests there were off-panel visits by her to the grave as well: Image

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Re: New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

Post by Somebody » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:26 pm

IOW, is this what we should be going with?

Oh, and how can NM 64 (which I've now got hold of - nope, Rahne was in black funereal dress, not jeans & T-shirt there either) take place after NM@ 6/2, when the latter story involves Doug having been buried for a while, while NM 64 is his wake and funeral? Something's screwed up there - for Rahne, it's placed all the way down after NM 92! Moving accordingly.

Similarly, XCAL:P never really happened, it was an illusion "played out in the subconscious mind of Alistaire Stuart" by Merlyn, toying with the Excalibur members. Doug can't have appeared there.

WOLFSBANE/RAHNE SINCLAIR
[...]
FS 1
**NM2 11 (11:4)-FB
NM 5
[...]
NM 21
**NM2 11 (13:2)-FB
NM@ 1
[...]
NM 50
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM 51
[...]
NM 55
**NM2 11 (13:3)-FB
NM 56
[...]
XF 41
**NM2 11 (13:4)-FB
NM@ 5
[...]

CANNONBALL/SAMUEL ZACHARY GUTHRIE
[...]
FS 1
**NM2 11 (11:4)-FB
NM 5
[...]
NM 21
**NM2 11 (13:2)-FB
NM@ 1
[...]
NM 50
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM 51
[...]

PSYCHE/DANIELLE MOONSTAR
[...]
FS 1
**NM2 11 (11:4)-FB
NM 5
[...]

MIRAGE II/DANIELLE MOONSTAR
[...]
NM 50
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM 51
[...]

SUNSPOT/ROBERTO DACOSTA
[...]
FS 1
**NM2 11 (11:4)-FB
NM 5
[...]
NM 50
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM 51
[...]

KARMA/XI'AN COY MANH
[...]
SEX /2
**NM2 11 (11:4)-FB
NM 5
[...]
NM 50
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM 51
[...]

CYPHER/DOUG RAMSEY
[...]
NM 50
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM 51
[...]
NM 55
**NM2 11 (13:3)-FB
NM 56
[...]
NM 61
***NM@ 6/2 (move from here)
***XCAL:P (delete)
NM 64
**NM2 11 (13:4)-FB-BTS
**NM@ 6/2 (move to here)
See also Douglock
WLOCK4 1

MAGIK/ILLYANA RASPUTINA
[...]
NM 50
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM 51
[...]

MAGMA/AMARA AQUILLA/ALLISON CRESTMERE
[...]
NM 50
**NM2 11 (13:1)-FB
NM 51
[...]

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Re: New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

Post by Somebody » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:56 am

Final call for objections to the last set of page 13 placement...

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Re: New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:02 am

How about we place NM2 11 (13:4)-FB before XF 41 instead of after XF 41 for Wolfsbane? There's a little more open time before XF 41, is all.
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Re: New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

Post by Somebody » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:01 am

Col_Fury wrote:How about we place NM2 11 (13:4)-FB before XF 41 instead of after XF 41 for Wolfsbane? There's a little more open time before XF 41, is all.
Fair enough. So between X:OMO/2 and XF 41, then?

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Re: New Mutants v2 #11 (NM v1 help required)

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:43 am

That's where I'm thinking, yeah.

The rest of the page 13 flashbacks look good, too. That's just the only one I had a comment on.
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